Why not simply pass a law to limit company liability in the case that a minor sees something undesirable? Why shouldn’t the onus be on the parents to parent?
If Australia genuinely wanted to improve the lives of its children, it would first tackle the loopholes in its child support scheme [1].
But then again, as with Chat Control and other such schemes, “save the children” is used to usher in breaking of all citizens’ privacy. I bet Aus is insanely jealous of China’s mandatory ID checks on their superapps
What about Yandex? If I wanted to see porn, I'd go to Yandex, not Bing or Google, because Yandex is the superior search engine for that kind of thing. If Yandex is unaffected, this age check is useless.
What about Marginalia? A small operation like Marginalia, if affected, may not have the ressource to implement age check. Is this some kind of regulation capture scheme?
Australian politics is very much in favour of throwing around a lot of Red herrings. Eg get the conversation, media and public focussed on unimportant issues as a way to distract from the fact they are incompetent to deal with big issues.
Grew up in NSW for 25 years. Nothing has changed. A few extra toll roads.
I think it's telling that this is happening via "policies" instead of laws, because almost nobody cares or wants it.
It's also telling that Google and Microsoft aren't in opposition to this new burden, they're giving quiet yet full support. This will *necessarily* entrench the big players through the burden to implement, make it easier to track individuals across different accounts and services, and endanger the privacy and anonymity of all adults in Australia. And I think that's all the goal.
If they cared about protecting kids they'd focus on resources and campaigns to educate parents on using parental controls. Then parents could decide if they care to block these things in their homes. It should be up to them.
The "you can just log out" loophole, that's just boiling the frog slowly. It would be foolish to think that will stay around.
> campaigns to educate parents on using parental controls.
Exactly this.
The other possibility is that Google & Microsoft won't want to hassle people for ID or "papers please" just for liking a post, reviewing a business or sending email.
If I were Google, I'd be worried about losing a LOT of customers who simply won't provide invasive personal details which routinely get stolen in Australia from poorly secured "trusted" organisations like Qantas and Optus.
People won't want to send their ID to "trusted ID contractors" for simple web services because e-Karen has a final solution. I'll close my Google accounts if they ever deny me access on that basis, and I'll take action against the measures in any way I can to make things as uncomfortable as possible for whatever authoritarian government ushers this garbage in.
In full expectation of being downvoted, I would like to say here that I think the comments below show an astonishing lack of awareness about how most ordinary australians feel about the risks to children online. I believe most australians vox-popped in the street would say they expect the government to do this.
I'm not for a minute saying either the current government, or any past government is either competent or capable of implementing protections which actually work. I am solely saying, these intentions will probably be popular with a lot of parents, and very possibly electorally popular as well, and will be unopposed by the opposition, unless they take a "not going far enough" position.
The Australian Privacy Commissioner, and the CSIRO made substantive submissions to the government regarding use of trusted third parties and homomorphic encryption. I have some doubt the government is interested in listening, but the fact remains there are technologies which can identify you, do KYC 100 points, and not reveal who you are, or where you are going, to the government who issues the ID.
Like many others I've had my google account in continuous use, demonstrated to google through use of things like passkeys and 2FA, for over 20 years. I struggle to think of how most people with a gmail account have not functionally identified themselves to google (most: by no means all)
Anyone who cares will ask their mates at school, who will assist them to set up a VPN and thus circumvent this silliness. Then the same people who've pushed this solution to their perceived problem will start to target VPNs.
The real question is whether they then attempt to ban VPNs. The streamers would likely join in on that, which might be sufficient lobbying for the government to accept it?
Fortunately, my 12yo was born on 1 Jan 1970, just like their parents.
Sounds like Australian kids will just use private / incognito browser windows (aka porn mode) even more than they do already. I fail to see what this new "policy" will achieve, apart from my above point, plus serving as an excuse for Google and pals to subject users to ever more facial recognition and to brazenly collect ever more personal data.
My thoughts on this is there is very few things that will stop a sufficiently motivated teenager. I Know this as I have these conversations alot with my kids. They will work around it or go to whatever is out of scope of the blocking.
The only thing the Australia Government is great at is political grandstanding, regardless of the party in power.
Australia continues its descent into censorship, some what putting a hole in the theory that democracy and freedom of speech are anything more than co-related.
This is just a step towards killing anonymity and free speech online, as well as a hand out to shady government contractors.
We are going to have to give our IDs and biometrics to untrusted 3rd parties just because some people don't like the idea of other people's kids using the internet.
If these sites are so bad, maybe laws should instead target that problem. For example, make it illegal for social media companies to make their products addictive.
Instead, we get insanely invasive half-measures that impede on security, privacy and speech, with the added bonus of politicians whipping people up into moral panics in order to pass them.
And this will lead to demand for ID-validated specific proxy malware that detect who has authenticated with ID services and give others a way to browse the web normally again through them. Those with the ID proxy malware will take the fall for anything the rest of us using the proxy do.
Maybe after a decade of wrongful arrests the laws will become more sane and just require server operators to use RTA labels [1] and clients to check for said labels to active optional parental controls as determined by the parents or legal guardians. No 3rd party leaky junk.
> We are going to have to give our IDs and biometrics to untrusted 3rd parties just because some people don't like the idea of other people's kids using the internet.
Depends on the implementation. Germany has digital passports already and for age verification the only data you transmit is your date of birth.
> If these sites are so bad, maybe laws should instead target that problem.
We apparently live in a world where companies are legally considered to be people, and thus have rights, yet they have no moral obligations whatsoever.
What I love the most about this whole thing is that it's about limiting people's access to porn while evidence that porn is bad for you is dubious at best, while the real problem is big tech using algorithms to feed people's stupidity and addiction on personal basis... which as dystopic as it sounds, has been documented, proven, and accepted as the new normal. And with the new law it gives said big tech access to even more information about the user to target them with garbage even more effectively.
What do I say. Every day I'm even more disappointed in people. "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause."
If you already have a Google account where your location is stated and obvious, why do you think Google won't still demand your "papers please" after these Orwellian Labor party laws attempt to screw us?
Protecting kids online is absolutely important, but introducing mandatory age checks at the search engine level (especially using methods like facial analysis or credit cards) opens up major privacy and surveillance concerns.
27 comments
[ 7.8 ms ] story [ 67.8 ms ] threadBut then again, as with Chat Control and other such schemes, “save the children” is used to usher in breaking of all citizens’ privacy. I bet Aus is insanely jealous of China’s mandatory ID checks on their superapps
[1] https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/oct/08/single-paren...
What about Marginalia? A small operation like Marginalia, if affected, may not have the ressource to implement age check. Is this some kind of regulation capture scheme?
Why don't you just shove a leash up my ass?
What can we - the people - do to make our discontent heard?
Grew up in NSW for 25 years. Nothing has changed. A few extra toll roads.
It's also telling that Google and Microsoft aren't in opposition to this new burden, they're giving quiet yet full support. This will *necessarily* entrench the big players through the burden to implement, make it easier to track individuals across different accounts and services, and endanger the privacy and anonymity of all adults in Australia. And I think that's all the goal.
If they cared about protecting kids they'd focus on resources and campaigns to educate parents on using parental controls. Then parents could decide if they care to block these things in their homes. It should be up to them.
The "you can just log out" loophole, that's just boiling the frog slowly. It would be foolish to think that will stay around.
Exactly this.
The other possibility is that Google & Microsoft won't want to hassle people for ID or "papers please" just for liking a post, reviewing a business or sending email.
If I were Google, I'd be worried about losing a LOT of customers who simply won't provide invasive personal details which routinely get stolen in Australia from poorly secured "trusted" organisations like Qantas and Optus.
People won't want to send their ID to "trusted ID contractors" for simple web services because e-Karen has a final solution. I'll close my Google accounts if they ever deny me access on that basis, and I'll take action against the measures in any way I can to make things as uncomfortable as possible for whatever authoritarian government ushers this garbage in.
but regardless I will absolutely be implementing a VPN solution to bypass this.
I'm not for a minute saying either the current government, or any past government is either competent or capable of implementing protections which actually work. I am solely saying, these intentions will probably be popular with a lot of parents, and very possibly electorally popular as well, and will be unopposed by the opposition, unless they take a "not going far enough" position.
The Australian Privacy Commissioner, and the CSIRO made substantive submissions to the government regarding use of trusted third parties and homomorphic encryption. I have some doubt the government is interested in listening, but the fact remains there are technologies which can identify you, do KYC 100 points, and not reveal who you are, or where you are going, to the government who issues the ID.
Like many others I've had my google account in continuous use, demonstrated to google through use of things like passkeys and 2FA, for over 20 years. I struggle to think of how most people with a gmail account have not functionally identified themselves to google (most: by no means all)
The real question is whether they then attempt to ban VPNs. The streamers would likely join in on that, which might be sufficient lobbying for the government to accept it?
Fortunately, my 12yo was born on 1 Jan 1970, just like their parents.
The only thing the Australia Government is great at is political grandstanding, regardless of the party in power.
We are going to have to give our IDs and biometrics to untrusted 3rd parties just because some people don't like the idea of other people's kids using the internet.
If these sites are so bad, maybe laws should instead target that problem. For example, make it illegal for social media companies to make their products addictive.
Instead, we get insanely invasive half-measures that impede on security, privacy and speech, with the added bonus of politicians whipping people up into moral panics in order to pass them.
Maybe after a decade of wrongful arrests the laws will become more sane and just require server operators to use RTA labels [1] and clients to check for said labels to active optional parental controls as determined by the parents or legal guardians. No 3rd party leaky junk.
[1] - https://www.rtalabel.org/index.php?content=howtofaq#single
Depends on the implementation. Germany has digital passports already and for age verification the only data you transmit is your date of birth.
I don't know anything about Ozzy passports tho.
We apparently live in a world where companies are legally considered to be people, and thus have rights, yet they have no moral obligations whatsoever.
What do I say. Every day I'm even more disappointed in people. "So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause."
I think VPNs are the easiest solution when this gets implemented. Easier than going through an age check.