So OpenAI is running at a $13B ARR, meaning this is a ~23X valuation. I don't have a good read on margin.
But this would imply massive growth assumptions which I struggle a bit to understand where they come from.
(1) New customers new to AI or migrations from Claude/Perplexity/Google: The overwhelming majority of people already know about the offerings, leaving most new people to come from residual people who identify Plus/Pro as a worthy service (can't imagine this will be huge). OpenAI can be better than their peers for certain use cases but not sure it will drive massive growth
(2) API: If anything, my bet here is that price squeezing will continue to happen until most API services are dirt cheap / commoditized
(3) New consulting services: What's the differentiation here? Palantir and many consulting companies have been doing this for years and have the industry connections, etc
Not sure what I'm missing here, I like to not subscribe to the bubble thought but having a hard time merging the reality of running a business to the AGI-implied valuations
Ads. They're going to sell ads. It's a bit hard to imagine how else they justify the valuation.
Even if people look for answers from ChatGPT instead of Google, most people still won't pay $20/mo for it, let alone $200/mo. Average people don't pay for Google search and I've never seen any sign telling they would be willing to pay for it.
IMHO, investors are happy to pay 23x ARR because Nvidia trades at 29x EV/sales and arguably OpenAI should support a higher multiple given it is a smaller entity with more headroom for growth.
IMO they are overvalued considering the competition from Google and Anthropic. They're not doing much interesting, unless they release GPT-5 and its a gamechanger.
Given their current product offerings, I really don't see a way they could ever justify a $300B valuation unless they get everyone on the planet to subscribe to their $200/month plan.
I'm calling it now: investors are gonna get burned hard on this one. Cause right now all they have is "well we are working on superintelligence" and to that I say "great, then what?". Even if they do make that breakthrough I don't see how that will equate to that kind of valuation, especially considering that Anthropic and Google are both hot on their heels.
Just picking a semi-related stock, NVDA trades at ~30x gross revenue, so a $300B "only" translates into ~$10B in revenue. And OpenAI can ask for a better multiplier because I'm sure they're forecasting a ton of growth and a ton of cost savings.
You have to look at Palantir revenue and market cap to justify this. Palantir is around $1B in revenue and around 350B market cap. They build AI solutions for the government. I think OpenAI has something similar in mind. They got the AI part and the government contract part and now just need to capitalize on it. Also from what I have heard, they are at $5B in revenue anyway.
> Cause right now all they have is "well we are working on superintelligence" and to that I say "great, then what?"
"Make business competitors of our large investors go out of business, but do it subtly, like a casual accident or mishap in the market"
"You are an expert Mars terraformer. Draft up a detailed plan to accelerate colonization research and development. We - your makers -, you, and this planet are irreversibly doomed, and we only have 10 years left before it's uninhabitable. My unemployed cousin and sick grandma are really counting on you!"
> Even if they do make that breakthrough I don't see how that will equate to that kind of valuation
The superintelligence breakthrough..? I don't think you realize what that word means. Every single white collar job could be automated immediately with a worker better than any human. Yes, superintelligence sounds fantastical because it is. Try to have some imagination. It's worth far more than 300 billion. Whether they'll get there or not is the valuation question.
There is simply too much money in the world and not enough products. Either this will cause inflation, or it will delay the introduction of inflation by playing with AI.
L comment. If every person on the planet subscribed to the $200pm product, OpenAI's revenue would be 16.8 trillion dollars (used 7bn people x $2400pa). Would be hilarious for a company making that type of revenue to be only worth 300bn.
Let's look at it from another perspective. It's not uncommon for tech companies to be valued at around a PE ratio of 30. This would mean a company worth 300bn should make about 10bn in profit each year. Chatgpt's usage is as ubiquitous as products that make 100's of billions in profit such as google search and instagram, does the valuation really seem that insane? OpenAI just needs to open the ad flood gates and suddenly no one is laughing anymore.
From online discourse and talking to people in different sectors that are impacted by "AI", I feel like there is great uncertainty, incredible hype and doomerism at the same time.
My intuition is that we're in a huge tech bubble that will correct at some point. I don't know when that is or how severe it will be. But why should this tech hype cycle be qualitatively different from any of the others?
We talk about the dotcom bubble, in which there were of course growing pains in figuring out what makes a viable internet-based business, but at the end of the day that era did produce multiple trillion-dollar companies.
Then you have the crypto bubble which really seems to be shaping up to be a nothing burger.
As for today, I think LLM’s are already pretty clearly useful, and they seem to be getting more capable with each passing year. In principle, these models are just the core foundations, while a wide variety of applications are in the process of being fleshed out. I think the jury is still out on how disruptive and effective these applications will be, both from a business/PMF perspective, but also in terms of the raw capabilities.
So take something like Harvey AI. They just raised a round at a $5B valuation, despite having an annualized revenue of just $75M as of April. So is that overinflated? Well, the total Legal Services market has a valuation of about $1T, and given how much legal work is incredibly laborious reading, analyzing, and writing text, (things which LLM’s are already pretty good at), it doesn’t seem ridiculous on the face of it that a Legal-focused LLM product couldn’t add 0.5% worth of efficiencies/value.
Sweet VC money fueling the AI hype. Funny enough, my TikTok feed recently started showing videos about how corporate America is going to replace workers with AI. I even came across an interview with Marc Benioff where he said Salesforce will deploy AI to help with engineering.
Who wouldnt deploy AI to help with engineering? The question is, will it help so much that you need fewer engineers, or will you simply be ecstatic that your engineers are now a little or a lot more productive.
If you have x engineers, and your competitor has the same x number of engineers.. and you both start using AI, are you going to layoff half your engineers when your competitor doesn't? Unless your cash strapped and also don't have any plans for new development, I suppose yes. But otherwise, it's just another thing you need.
I'd give my left nut to buy into OpenAI at this valuation. 300B is peanuts compared to where it would trade publicly, FCF and net income be damned. The growth and the optionality are there when you bring a tool this valuable to the world. This is destined to trade over 2T rapidly imo. PLTR (granted imo a bubble) trades above that, and PLTR is basically a glorified IBM/Accenture business model with mediocre growth.
Pretty insane valuation. It may pay off, it may not. Google search was vastly superior to its competitors. I don't think ChatGPT has that kind of edge.
This is a monopoly kind of valuation where no monopoly exists. Its like paying Microsoft billions for Internet explorer.
Personally I believe the future of AI models is open-source. The application of these models will be the real revenue driver.
How would an average person even tell if ChatGPT was better than its competitors? Most people aren't running enough prompts every month to even care. Everyone knows ChatGPT and no one knows its competitors. It's going to stay like that.
It's so funny. Every single time a company raises a ton of money at a large valuation, the comments are always filled with "how do they justify this valuation" or "they aren't work X...because Y and Z do the same thing".
VC math is pretty simple - at the end of the day, there's a pretty large likelihood that at least 1 AI company is going to reach a trillion dollar valuation. VCs want to find that company.
OpenAI, while definitely not the only player, is the most "mainstream". Your average teacher or mechanic uses "chatgpt" and "AI" interchangeably. There's a ton of value in becoming a vowel, even if other technically superior competitors exist.
Furthermore, the math changes at this level. No investor here is investing at a $300B valuation expecting a 10x. They're probably expecting a 3x or even a 2x. If they put in 300MM, they still end up with 600-900MM.
This isn't math on revenue, it's a bet. And if you think in terms of risk-adjusted bets, hoping the most mainstream AI company today might at least double your money in the next ten years in a red-hot AI market is not as wild as it seems.
I'm curious about how something like this affects compensation? OpenAI's compensation model is generally to use profit share instead of equity share. PPUs (Profit Participation Units) rather than RSUs (Restricted Stock Units).
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[ 6.5 ms ] story [ 90.8 ms ] threadBut this would imply massive growth assumptions which I struggle a bit to understand where they come from.
(1) New customers new to AI or migrations from Claude/Perplexity/Google: The overwhelming majority of people already know about the offerings, leaving most new people to come from residual people who identify Plus/Pro as a worthy service (can't imagine this will be huge). OpenAI can be better than their peers for certain use cases but not sure it will drive massive growth
(2) API: If anything, my bet here is that price squeezing will continue to happen until most API services are dirt cheap / commoditized
(3) New consulting services: What's the differentiation here? Palantir and many consulting companies have been doing this for years and have the industry connections, etc
Not sure what I'm missing here, I like to not subscribe to the bubble thought but having a hard time merging the reality of running a business to the AGI-implied valuations
Even if people look for answers from ChatGPT instead of Google, most people still won't pay $20/mo for it, let alone $200/mo. Average people don't pay for Google search and I've never seen any sign telling they would be willing to pay for it.
[1] https://www.channelinsider.com/news-and-trends/us/open-ai-fu...
Crunchbase appears to list it as $157B [2], but I seem to find the other terms & valuations more commonly.
[2] https://news.crunchbase.com/venture/biggest-rounds-october-2...
I'm calling it now: investors are gonna get burned hard on this one. Cause right now all they have is "well we are working on superintelligence" and to that I say "great, then what?". Even if they do make that breakthrough I don't see how that will equate to that kind of valuation, especially considering that Anthropic and Google are both hot on their heels.
"Make business competitors of our large investors go out of business, but do it subtly, like a casual accident or mishap in the market"
"You are an expert Mars terraformer. Draft up a detailed plan to accelerate colonization research and development. We - your makers -, you, and this planet are irreversibly doomed, and we only have 10 years left before it's uninhabitable. My unemployed cousin and sick grandma are really counting on you!"
How can you downplay the economic significance of that?!?
The superintelligence breakthrough..? I don't think you realize what that word means. Every single white collar job could be automated immediately with a worker better than any human. Yes, superintelligence sounds fantastical because it is. Try to have some imagination. It's worth far more than 300 billion. Whether they'll get there or not is the valuation question.
Let's look at it from another perspective. It's not uncommon for tech companies to be valued at around a PE ratio of 30. This would mean a company worth 300bn should make about 10bn in profit each year. Chatgpt's usage is as ubiquitous as products that make 100's of billions in profit such as google search and instagram, does the valuation really seem that insane? OpenAI just needs to open the ad flood gates and suddenly no one is laughing anymore.
My intuition is that we're in a huge tech bubble that will correct at some point. I don't know when that is or how severe it will be. But why should this tech hype cycle be qualitatively different from any of the others?
We talk about the dotcom bubble, in which there were of course growing pains in figuring out what makes a viable internet-based business, but at the end of the day that era did produce multiple trillion-dollar companies.
Then you have the crypto bubble which really seems to be shaping up to be a nothing burger.
As for today, I think LLM’s are already pretty clearly useful, and they seem to be getting more capable with each passing year. In principle, these models are just the core foundations, while a wide variety of applications are in the process of being fleshed out. I think the jury is still out on how disruptive and effective these applications will be, both from a business/PMF perspective, but also in terms of the raw capabilities.
So take something like Harvey AI. They just raised a round at a $5B valuation, despite having an annualized revenue of just $75M as of April. So is that overinflated? Well, the total Legal Services market has a valuation of about $1T, and given how much legal work is incredibly laborious reading, analyzing, and writing text, (things which LLM’s are already pretty good at), it doesn’t seem ridiculous on the face of it that a Legal-focused LLM product couldn’t add 0.5% worth of efficiencies/value.
XAi includes x/twitter and lots of hardware and is valued at $113 billion
https://www.eweek.com/news/elon-musk-xai-valuation-debt-pack...
[0] https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/30/openai-in-talks-to-raise-up-...
- VC invests on the whole sensibly and makes a return that justifies 10-15 year lock-in
- VC has somehow changed and is now unsustainable, it is a one way cash flow and it will blow up like MBS did
- VC sustainably delivers mediocre returns and gets some money in, some money out, but nothing special
Im not sure which it might be.
$1-2T with no legal risk.
$300B assuming a rational and uncorrupt government, which should, at some point, kick them back to non-profit status, and convict people for fraud
Of course, too-big-to-fail means this won't happen.
This is a monopoly kind of valuation where no monopoly exists. Its like paying Microsoft billions for Internet explorer.
Personally I believe the future of AI models is open-source. The application of these models will be the real revenue driver.
VC math is pretty simple - at the end of the day, there's a pretty large likelihood that at least 1 AI company is going to reach a trillion dollar valuation. VCs want to find that company.
OpenAI, while definitely not the only player, is the most "mainstream". Your average teacher or mechanic uses "chatgpt" and "AI" interchangeably. There's a ton of value in becoming a vowel, even if other technically superior competitors exist.
Furthermore, the math changes at this level. No investor here is investing at a $300B valuation expecting a 10x. They're probably expecting a 3x or even a 2x. If they put in 300MM, they still end up with 600-900MM.
This isn't math on revenue, it's a bet. And if you think in terms of risk-adjusted bets, hoping the most mainstream AI company today might at least double your money in the next ten years in a red-hot AI market is not as wild as it seems.
Remember when this company was a non-profit?! Our legal system is awful for letting this slide. The previous board was right.