I disagree with this. High stress environment, already with an alcohol and spending problem (super high interest car loans etc) that in this case: the machines need to go.
But that also challenges a broader trend in games of chance proliferating. In some places, small businesses are pushing hard to allow them to put them in their businesses because they make money.
Gambling is one of those places where I draw the line about freedom of choice and disposition. It's too easy to lose everything, and get suckered in to lose more. It needs stronger regulation because the House never loses, and people who can't control themselves suffer.
Hot take: Gambling is fine. Gambling with important money isn't.
If people were somehow limited to gambling up to $10 per day, it wouldn't be a problem. Or if people were gambling with RuneScape gold coins (and not trading real money for gold coins).
They can make all the arguments they want about what "good" this money does. But all I see is its taking people who might be interested in leaving the military after 4 years, and sucking them back in due to debt, or not earning as much money as they thought they could.
The article mentions two reasonable reasons for allowing the program (which is about gambling on bases outside of US) to continue.
1. The classic, "people will want to gamble, we may as well control the supply". I think this is generally true. In the US, service members can go off base (when allowed) to gamble in a more or less controlled manner. This program provides the possibility of more or less uniform, controlled access across the globe, regardless of host nation.
2. Revenue funds morale, welfare and recreation activities.
I honestly think point 1 is fair enough. The corrosive element is that it's used for aspect 2 (an alternate approach might be to simply to redistribute money back to the soldiers directly... or just let it go to waste). The challenge is that once someone's funding is coupled to gambling revenue, it compromises its ability to pursue task 1 (which is basically a risk mitigation strategy).
For an army that tests for drugs, wants soldiers to be clean when they come in, it is maddening that they then pull this shi*t on them! The level of stupidity and ignorance is staggering. The army doesn’t care about their soldiers. “All I want to say is They don’t really care about us.”
The government shouldn't be in the gambling business at all, neither this nor state lotteries. It creates a perverse incentive where the government starts promoting gambling instead of what they should be doing: promoting services to help gambling addicts recover.
I'm absolutely sick of seeing billboards promoting the lottery as a sound investment, and not only that but suggesting terrible ways people could waste all their winnings instead of putting it away and being financially responsible. It's sickening.
And yes, I know the argument about state lotteries outcompeting "numbers games" run by organized crime. I don't buy this argument, I don't think we're getting any net gain for society. Having connections to organized crime to participate in their gambling schemes is far less accessible than buying lotto tickets at any gas station in the country. This casual accessibility sucks far more people into gambling addictions..
I wonder if at least part of this is to ensure that the gambling is run by the military, rather than the service members going off base to gamble at places that could be connected to organized crime. Does anyone know if in the countries where this is happening off-based gambling has such connections?
The $ argument in favor of this seems a little silly. The $ brought in a millionth of the US military budget.
Think the best argument presented in the piece is just that some non-trivial fraction of soldiers are going to gamble, and its better they do so in a manor controlled by the military then backroom poker games, online, etc.
State lotteries and scratch tickets should be illegal and banned. Every time I go to the deli I'm inevitably waiting behind a (very obviously) poor person blowing their paycheck or welfare check on a dozen lotto and scratch tickets.
Gambling and other predatory businesses on military bases are gross. MLM's run rampant through military communities by preying on dependents and the tighter social networks formed by military families. Yeah, I know, freedom to make adult decisions and all, but sometimes it's nice to just keep the garbage out in the first place.
I grew up and, you know, smoking ads were banned, alcohol is bad. now it's smoke weed every day and slot machines at gas stations. what the heck happened?
I can't understand why the government has to be so involved in gambling. I'm pretty much okay with the lottery, it's kind of silly thing you can play with friends or coworkers, you pretty much know you're not going to win. But scratch off tickets are worse because it's kind of unlimited. Most people wouldn't blow $100 on lottery tickets, but might on scratch off. There's no delay, just buy immediately to lose. And then they have the apps. Why? Are they really necessary? And to top it off, there's advertisements. It's one thing to say people want to gamble and this is a way to take a reasonable profit and use it to pay for public services. It's quite another to actually try to encourage people to play.
I'll throw some anecdotal data down. I'm a military brat who grew up on bases around the country and in Germany. My dad was a gambling addict. It was not uncommon for us to spend all day at the bowling alley on base, which was where the slot machines were.
At the time, I didn't know better and just played arcade games all day. Eventually, I started to put together just how much money my dad must have put into those slot machines. Thousands, maybe most of his salary. It certainly explained why we generally had no furniture in our house compared to my friends.
So am I against slot machines on base? No. I have no doubt that if they weren't readily available in a safe/controlled environment, my dad would have still found a way to gamble. If anything, it was a forcing mechanism for him not to go overboard given the limitations of what was offered on site.
I do however wish there were programs that existed to provide offramps for people with addiction, similar to supervised injection sites for drug users. Seems to me that this could be easily funded with the proceeds.
State-sanctioned gambling is an absolute menace. Lots of states in the US have an ironically-named "Education Lottery", which ostensibly funds public schools. This is done because people don't want to pay the taxes necessary to fund public schools. Instead, these lotteries effectively take money from the poorest of society to fund the schools instead of taxing progressively (or even more for rich people) to fund the dwindling public school budget (assuming this is even done properly). Meanwhile, proper education would teach people that playing the lottery is a fool's errand.
I can only assume the situation is similar on military bases.
One call from the base commander could stop this. So which is it commanders, kickbacks from gambling companies and more troops going into debt just to be take up space in the brig? ... or more people under your command that are not financially stressed? The military is having a hard enough time finding and recruiting people even qualified to proceed to basic training. This behavior is unbecoming of an officer. A demotion and permanent relocation to McMurdo Station, Antarctica or Eielson Air Force Base Alaska for all leaders involved and the problem should solve itself. This message is for defense secretary Pete Hegseth and President Donald J. Trump.
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[ 2.3 ms ] story [ 42.3 ms ] threadBut that also challenges a broader trend in games of chance proliferating. In some places, small businesses are pushing hard to allow them to put them in their businesses because they make money.
Gambling is one of those places where I draw the line about freedom of choice and disposition. It's too easy to lose everything, and get suckered in to lose more. It needs stronger regulation because the House never loses, and people who can't control themselves suffer.
If people were somehow limited to gambling up to $10 per day, it wouldn't be a problem. Or if people were gambling with RuneScape gold coins (and not trading real money for gold coins).
A compromise might be if all the profits went toward perks at the base, better food, etc.
Its a underhanded forced recruitment tool.
1. The classic, "people will want to gamble, we may as well control the supply". I think this is generally true. In the US, service members can go off base (when allowed) to gamble in a more or less controlled manner. This program provides the possibility of more or less uniform, controlled access across the globe, regardless of host nation.
2. Revenue funds morale, welfare and recreation activities.
I honestly think point 1 is fair enough. The corrosive element is that it's used for aspect 2 (an alternate approach might be to simply to redistribute money back to the soldiers directly... or just let it go to waste). The challenge is that once someone's funding is coupled to gambling revenue, it compromises its ability to pursue task 1 (which is basically a risk mitigation strategy).
I'm absolutely sick of seeing billboards promoting the lottery as a sound investment, and not only that but suggesting terrible ways people could waste all their winnings instead of putting it away and being financially responsible. It's sickening.
And yes, I know the argument about state lotteries outcompeting "numbers games" run by organized crime. I don't buy this argument, I don't think we're getting any net gain for society. Having connections to organized crime to participate in their gambling schemes is far less accessible than buying lotto tickets at any gas station in the country. This casual accessibility sucks far more people into gambling addictions..
Think the best argument presented in the piece is just that some non-trivial fraction of soldiers are going to gamble, and its better they do so in a manor controlled by the military then backroom poker games, online, etc.
Do we really have to optimize everything?
That is, if the machines pay true odds, and the military eats the cost of the machines.
At the time, I didn't know better and just played arcade games all day. Eventually, I started to put together just how much money my dad must have put into those slot machines. Thousands, maybe most of his salary. It certainly explained why we generally had no furniture in our house compared to my friends.
So am I against slot machines on base? No. I have no doubt that if they weren't readily available in a safe/controlled environment, my dad would have still found a way to gamble. If anything, it was a forcing mechanism for him not to go overboard given the limitations of what was offered on site.
I do however wish there were programs that existed to provide offramps for people with addiction, similar to supervised injection sites for drug users. Seems to me that this could be easily funded with the proceeds.
I can only assume the situation is similar on military bases.