Haven't coffee shops since the beginning two hundred years ago been places where people might hang out for a long time without spending much? In the 1800s and beginning of the 1900s? It shouldn't be a problem that people spend time there without spending money, as long as there's plenty of empty tables available, as I see it. And most laptop patrons are conscious to spend some money and not overstay their welcome.
The idea pitched in the article would probably only work with Dutch or central Europeans in general, who unfortunately lack a lot in culture after WWII. Europeans love rules and regulations, and will follow them and take any opportunity to abuse things when there's no explicit rule. Such as overstaying your welcome with your laptop in a café. If this idea with a minimum spend would be pitched in a more mature culture, people would just scoff at it and not visit such a café.
I try to buy one item an hour at a cafe, coffee or food. Sometimes that means too much caffeine. But I’ve not received any annoyed looks, at least that I’m aware of.
I got the impression that if the strategy works, the market positioning of cafes will shift from selling coffee and cookies to selling workstations with food perks.
This is one of the reasons I signed up for a coworking space - it is so distracting having to mentally keep track of whether I’m spending the minimum amount. If I have a proper meal at the coffeeshop it easily costs more than one coffee an hour. But then after an hour nobody remembers I bought the big meal so I feel compelled to buy another drink (that I don’t want).
Then there’s a shift change and again I feel I need to prove I’m not a freeloader.
IMO this is the kind of tech we should be avoiding.
Let's follow the money.
The sales generated for this thing come from somewhere. The idea is the coffee shops make more by forcing "squatters" to order one drink an hour or whatever. That additional money, a portion of it, goes to pay for this app that enforces it.
I think that money is better spent making the coffee better, paying the baristas better, and maybe even allowing customers to "squat".
Extracting money out of everyday life to make our world less friendly and more expensive.
So turning cafes into coworking spaces? They even use AirBnb as the base example, and we've seen how that's gone for cities around the world. This sounds tragic.
I have considered going the extreme other way and building a faraday cage around a cafe — no wifi, no cellular, just the people who are physically present in the cafe like it used to be.
I personally stopped going to my favourite cafe because all the tables were taken up by people using laptops, I think the value proposition is just not there. You are always going to be better off catering to people who are just dropping in for 5-10 minutes over someone who spends several hours and maybe buys 2 things and jeopardizes a table which could have been used by 10 people.
I know I'm the complete majority here but I kinda don't go to cafes on my own - so the only chance I'm a customer at all (unless with company) is if I have to kill an hour waiting for something when I also have work to do.
It's unfortunate I have to completely stop going to some cafes with a no laptop policy for three times one hour per year.
Not sure if I'd pay EUR 12 for 3 hours wifi, but if it was, say, EUR 12 of store credit that you can draw down on for coffees etc while there (and the store keeps any unused portion) I might do that.
One more app to replace basic social etiquette and community that seem to be inexorably dissolving thanks to people too preoccupied with their screens.
Amusingly, SF’s planning commission shut down a bustling cafe that did this. The approval was for a cafe not a coworking space. So in the end Workshop Cafe had to shut down and a bustling corner became a blighted empty spot for 5 years.
Ah, but perhaps they were just protecting the neighbors from the noise? Well, it was in the financial district. On the ground floor of a bank, which never had a problem with all this.
>>The laptop workers using Badge pledge a minimum spend. Badge gets a commission of that minimum spend. Cafe owners get more people and revenue, so they are happy to pay that.
A user books a space using Badge, and promises to spend, and the Cafe owner pays Badge a commission on a pledge. This seems ripe for a disputes process (the customer didn't spend) and Cafe owner actually not being "happy to pay that."
On the contrary, I spoke with a local coffee shop branch owner who said that squatters are essential to keeping the space lively, popular, and “cool.” This atmosphere draws in passersby and casual visitors, who are the real source of their revenue.
My guess is that coffee shops fall into one of two categories:
1. Those in high foot traffic areas, where a no-laptop policy helps maintain turnover, or
2. Those in low foot traffic areas, where it makes sense to do everything possible to fill seats and cultivate an appealing, vibrant environment.
This is the routine I perfected for myself as a nomad after a lot of trial and error:
- In the morning, I work at the Airbnb/hotel. I start the day without worries about packing/unpacking or preparations: a solid three to four hours of work. (Requirements: get a room with a workstation and a good chair. Tables are usually easy to find, but if the chair isn’t good enough, buy one.)
- Natural stop to have lunch, usually with a longer walk.
- Start work again around 2 PM at some coffee shop and order a coffee. Another three hours of solid work.
- Natural stop to use the bathroom (always a problem as a solo nomad, but not anymore), stretch my legs, and head to a different coffee shop.
- Final batch of work. Order something light to eat. No more caffeine. Another three hours of solid work.
In the end, I can get between nine and ten hours of solid work per day. I spend around three hours in one place, so I didn’t notice any uncomfortable looks.
I also don’t rely on power outlets or local Wi-Fi never. The laptop needs to last the entire time, but it’s easy because it’s only in the afternoon (around six hours, not the whole day). For Wi-Fi, I always get a good mobile package with unlimited data if possible. This makes it easy to sit anywhere, really.
My setup is usually my laptop, an iPad as a second screen, earbuds, and a mobile phone. It works like a charm.
15 years ago Peet’s Coffee enforced this on me, killing the WiFi after an hour despite the fact that I was the only person in the store. Haven’t been back since.
The best model I’ve seen is to just have some tables marked as “no laptop”.
I would like something in between a cafe, a network cafe, and a coworking space. Ideally, I would like to pay per time for a desk space with an internet connection, and I would like to be able to order food and drinks a la carte.
Why not just have a table charge? I think maybe a red light at your table, which you extinguish for a time by paying money. If the red light is on, then you start getting those dirty looks, and eventually asked to leave. If you buy something you get a 30min credit or something.
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[ 2.6 ms ] story [ 43.1 ms ] threadThe idea pitched in the article would probably only work with Dutch or central Europeans in general, who unfortunately lack a lot in culture after WWII. Europeans love rules and regulations, and will follow them and take any opportunity to abuse things when there's no explicit rule. Such as overstaying your welcome with your laptop in a café. If this idea with a minimum spend would be pitched in a more mature culture, people would just scoff at it and not visit such a café.
Then there’s a shift change and again I feel I need to prove I’m not a freeloader.
Let's follow the money.
The sales generated for this thing come from somewhere. The idea is the coffee shops make more by forcing "squatters" to order one drink an hour or whatever. That additional money, a portion of it, goes to pay for this app that enforces it.
I think that money is better spent making the coffee better, paying the baristas better, and maybe even allowing customers to "squat".
Extracting money out of everyday life to make our world less friendly and more expensive.
I personally stopped going to my favourite cafe because all the tables were taken up by people using laptops, I think the value proposition is just not there. You are always going to be better off catering to people who are just dropping in for 5-10 minutes over someone who spends several hours and maybe buys 2 things and jeopardizes a table which could have been used by 10 people.
It's unfortunate I have to completely stop going to some cafes with a no laptop policy for three times one hour per year.
Ah, but perhaps they were just protecting the neighbors from the noise? Well, it was in the financial district. On the ground floor of a bank, which never had a problem with all this.
A user books a space using Badge, and promises to spend, and the Cafe owner pays Badge a commission on a pledge. This seems ripe for a disputes process (the customer didn't spend) and Cafe owner actually not being "happy to pay that."
My guess is that coffee shops fall into one of two categories:
1. Those in high foot traffic areas, where a no-laptop policy helps maintain turnover, or
2. Those in low foot traffic areas, where it makes sense to do everything possible to fill seats and cultivate an appealing, vibrant environment.
- In the morning, I work at the Airbnb/hotel. I start the day without worries about packing/unpacking or preparations: a solid three to four hours of work. (Requirements: get a room with a workstation and a good chair. Tables are usually easy to find, but if the chair isn’t good enough, buy one.)
- Natural stop to have lunch, usually with a longer walk.
- Start work again around 2 PM at some coffee shop and order a coffee. Another three hours of solid work.
- Natural stop to use the bathroom (always a problem as a solo nomad, but not anymore), stretch my legs, and head to a different coffee shop.
- Final batch of work. Order something light to eat. No more caffeine. Another three hours of solid work.
In the end, I can get between nine and ten hours of solid work per day. I spend around three hours in one place, so I didn’t notice any uncomfortable looks.
I also don’t rely on power outlets or local Wi-Fi never. The laptop needs to last the entire time, but it’s easy because it’s only in the afternoon (around six hours, not the whole day). For Wi-Fi, I always get a good mobile package with unlimited data if possible. This makes it easy to sit anywhere, really.
My setup is usually my laptop, an iPad as a second screen, earbuds, and a mobile phone. It works like a charm.
The best model I’ve seen is to just have some tables marked as “no laptop”.