I don't understand such statement. Automation has already created more job opportunities, why should this be any different? Jobs don't go away, they just transform. And since this AI (whatever that means, nobody really knows) isn't a human-like AGI, it will most certainly not replace humans, but it will automate processes and speed things up.
If you're a business that offers 3 services to the public and "AI" could automate one person's salary out of your payroll, why would do that as opposed to keeping your headcount and instead offer 9 services to the public generating more streams of revenue?
> He used his AI startup, Emma.love, to further drive the point home. He indicated that he was able to build the app with the help of two other software developers, a task that would have otherwise required the manpower of "over 350 developers in the past."
Looking at the product, the idea that this would take 350 developers is likely complete nonsense. It also indicates that the recent big tech layoffs and hiring reductions are simply removing bloat, not AI driven.
It’s what us doomers have been saying all along: Even if we’re wrong and these LLMs can replace all or most professional jobs, it won’t create new jobs to replace the lost ones because the AI can replace most labor. For a global economy built on consumers spending money on goods and services, this is a death spiral where fewer jobs mean fewer consumers, which weakens demand, which lowers revenues (corporate and tax alike), which inflates asset prices (the sole things appreciating in value that can’t be fabricated by AI), which displaces more workers, which further decreases revenues…
You get the idea. This is bad, it’s always going to be bad, and the only fix is a fundamental reorientation of global civilization away from “profit at all costs” and towards better metrics that reflect the health and wealth of a populace than GDP. Doing that would require existing power barons cede their control and cooperate on building such a new system, which they emphatically do not want to do.
We’re fucked, basically, has been our position all along. Either AI via LLMs is the real deal and the economy collapses because corporate and political leaders are too stupid to understand macroeconomics and labor issues, or AI via LLMs is bullshit and the economy collapses because we let the rich and powerful light money on fire for years in pursuit of a boondoggle.
There is no good ending here under current incentives and motives, and not one AI company has actually bothered to challenge or change those so that AI becomes a positive force.
Think about what happened when we got advances in agriculture.
We have gone from something like 90% of people employed growing food to something in the single digits (I'm too lazy at the moment to get exact figures, but this is close enough for my point).
Did all those advances in agriculture create jobs? I would say yes and no.
For the specific industry the advances happened in? No, definitely not. There are way fewer jobs in agriculture now.
But what did happen is that people were freed up to do different things. Those jobs were indirectly created by the fact that people did not need to spend so much time growing food. That allowed people to do other things to create value and improve our lives. Without those agriculture advances, we wouldn't have AI right now.
I suspect AI will be similar. We aren't going to have more jobs in the technology section because of AI. But that guy who hears "Code Monkey" for the first time and marvels that someone wrote a song about his life? He won't be a code monkey anymore he will be doing something else. If he's lucky something more personally fulfilling.
Funny thing is, it wasn't agricultural advances, at least initially. It was chemistry and mechanics. Haber-Bosch process of ammonia synthesis created cheap fertilizer, mechanization dramatically increased productivity. New plant varieties with higher yields came later.
Yeah, it's not the ag-tech that created new jobs, it's that human's like to be useful and get paid so they'll come up with new things like web dev or instagram influencer. Come AGI people will still probably come up with things to do. The wages and payment bit will likely need to be modified along the UBI or to each according to their needs lines.
Of course it’ll create new jobs. Already has - see teams of people doing training runs and a whole bunch of AI SaaS and consulting services etc
The risk is more that the quantity is less than what is removed. And that the people losing jobs aren’t suitable to retrain. Retraining say truck drivers as data scientists is an uphill battle.
ie substantial risk of specific people getting left behind
Software industry needs a healthy shake out anyway. Too many people came in for the money. The current shake out involves either stunting people inside vibe coding such that they are functionally retarded, or straight up leave them long-term unemployed. Honestly, the only reason anyone would stick around is because this is all they know or like. I would not fuck around with this career if you ain’t about that life.
But this goes for all, so all the project managers, and basically anyone that acted as middle-men between text editor and production, they all need to go. It’s going to be a nice trim job, better for everyone.
It's important to note that the lens for a silicon valley ex-google exec is whether AI will create new jobs which remind him of Google.
There's almost no question that tech giants will have negative headcount over the next 15 years but the changes coming from AI haven't even really started to percolate into the broader economy.
The full interview this comes from is off the rails. Gawdat says we'll have AGI by 2026 at the absolute latest, and that we will have artificial super intelligence in the immediate future. He guarantees that after destroying jobs, within 15 years we will be in a "utopia" controlled by AI. It's an absurd level of confidence for an extremely bold prediction.
In his last interview from this series in 2023, Gawdat said that LLMs are "alive in every possible way," have a "very deep consciousness," are "definitely aware," and "feel emotions."
His current endeavors involve an unlaunched combination LLM relationship coach and dating site (matchmaking humans with humans, not with LLMs, as far as I can tell).
I think he is wrong, in a short run AI will create more jobs. We need more things to run AI and to make more things like power generation, connectivity, sensors, silicone, datacenters, monitoring, security, construction and so on. All of these things and more require massive workforce skilled or not skilled.
Well I came here to say "...We'll need a universal basic income (UBI) in an AI-driven world".
Eventually, at some point. Most industry would have been disrupted.
There should be a working group of the major players/stake holders in the space to figure out how this is implemented.
I work in tech and I don't see that happening for another decade and half or so.
Historically, jobs lost to technology are eventually replaced with other jobs, though not necessarily for the displaced workers.
There's always the chance that "this time it's different". What's left after machines can think better than people? Dexterous manual work that mechanical arms can't perform?
The ideal situation would be that we reap the benefits of technological abundance and work less.
The idea that LLMs will replace us all just seems untethered from reality. Yes, they are extremely powerful and useful, with incredible potential, but I am not convinced that the cost/benefit ratio scales to the size of the entire economy.
As amazing as LLMs are, the statistical unreliability of the SOTA models means human intervention is always necessary. That's based on today's SOTA models which are already so absurdly gigantic that the DCs are disrupting civic infrastructure due to their water and power demands, and these companies still have to rate limit aggressively just to keep the service up.
Everyone knows quadratic growth doesn't scale, so I don't see how these models continue to grow in capability, while also growing in capacity to meet the demand of an "agentic economy", while still ultimately needing to pay human SMEs to verify correctness and fix mistakes. It doesn't add up.
My prediction is that we'll see increased efficiency in knowledge workers and reshaping/consolidation of certain job functions, but the structure of the economy over the next two decades won't be upended due to LLMs.
There are thousands of former Google execs and their mean intelligence is only slightly different than the population, with plenty of tail morons. There isn't any credibility innate to being an Ex-Google exec.
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[ 15.3 ms ] story [ 1403 ms ] threadSeems like a current trend.
The idea that a massive tax increase (aka "tariffs") will create jobs is also 100% crap.
If you're a business that offers 3 services to the public and "AI" could automate one person's salary out of your payroll, why would do that as opposed to keeping your headcount and instead offer 9 services to the public generating more streams of revenue?
Looking at the product, the idea that this would take 350 developers is likely complete nonsense. It also indicates that the recent big tech layoffs and hiring reductions are simply removing bloat, not AI driven.
You get the idea. This is bad, it’s always going to be bad, and the only fix is a fundamental reorientation of global civilization away from “profit at all costs” and towards better metrics that reflect the health and wealth of a populace than GDP. Doing that would require existing power barons cede their control and cooperate on building such a new system, which they emphatically do not want to do.
We’re fucked, basically, has been our position all along. Either AI via LLMs is the real deal and the economy collapses because corporate and political leaders are too stupid to understand macroeconomics and labor issues, or AI via LLMs is bullshit and the economy collapses because we let the rich and powerful light money on fire for years in pursuit of a boondoggle.
There is no good ending here under current incentives and motives, and not one AI company has actually bothered to challenge or change those so that AI becomes a positive force.
We have gone from something like 90% of people employed growing food to something in the single digits (I'm too lazy at the moment to get exact figures, but this is close enough for my point).
Did all those advances in agriculture create jobs? I would say yes and no.
For the specific industry the advances happened in? No, definitely not. There are way fewer jobs in agriculture now.
But what did happen is that people were freed up to do different things. Those jobs were indirectly created by the fact that people did not need to spend so much time growing food. That allowed people to do other things to create value and improve our lives. Without those agriculture advances, we wouldn't have AI right now.
I suspect AI will be similar. We aren't going to have more jobs in the technology section because of AI. But that guy who hears "Code Monkey" for the first time and marvels that someone wrote a song about his life? He won't be a code monkey anymore he will be doing something else. If he's lucky something more personally fulfilling.
Funny thing is, it wasn't agricultural advances, at least initially. It was chemistry and mechanics. Haber-Bosch process of ammonia synthesis created cheap fertilizer, mechanization dramatically increased productivity. New plant varieties with higher yields came later.
It's very counterintuitive, but for 250 years tech has constantly eliminated jobs, while unemployment rates have stayed the same.
People have always predicted this would lead to mass unemployment, they've always been wrong, and yet they've kept predicting it.
One way to explain it is that unemployed people are an unused resource, and free market economies are very good at finding uses for those.
The risk is more that the quantity is less than what is removed. And that the people losing jobs aren’t suitable to retrain. Retraining say truck drivers as data scientists is an uphill battle.
ie substantial risk of specific people getting left behind
There's almost no question that tech giants will have negative headcount over the next 15 years but the changes coming from AI haven't even really started to percolate into the broader economy.
In his last interview from this series in 2023, Gawdat said that LLMs are "alive in every possible way," have a "very deep consciousness," are "definitely aware," and "feel emotions."
His current endeavors involve an unlaunched combination LLM relationship coach and dating site (matchmaking humans with humans, not with LLMs, as far as I can tell).
Eventually, at some point. Most industry would have been disrupted. There should be a working group of the major players/stake holders in the space to figure out how this is implemented.
I work in tech and I don't see that happening for another decade and half or so.
Where is this discussion thread?
└── Dey well
There's always the chance that "this time it's different". What's left after machines can think better than people? Dexterous manual work that mechanical arms can't perform?
The ideal situation would be that we reap the benefits of technological abundance and work less.
As amazing as LLMs are, the statistical unreliability of the SOTA models means human intervention is always necessary. That's based on today's SOTA models which are already so absurdly gigantic that the DCs are disrupting civic infrastructure due to their water and power demands, and these companies still have to rate limit aggressively just to keep the service up.
Everyone knows quadratic growth doesn't scale, so I don't see how these models continue to grow in capability, while also growing in capacity to meet the demand of an "agentic economy", while still ultimately needing to pay human SMEs to verify correctness and fix mistakes. It doesn't add up.
My prediction is that we'll see increased efficiency in knowledge workers and reshaping/consolidation of certain job functions, but the structure of the economy over the next two decades won't be upended due to LLMs.