This is really interesting as I have been looking at a way of going GUI free on an MNT Pocket Reform but still able to use the things I need; markdown,python and julia editing, plus uploading to dropbox using maestral, and the occasional diagram creation. It is the latter that is letting me down at the moment as I would prefer to not have to ssh in.
I think it could be worthwhile to fork Alpine and maintain a glibc variant. That way we would keep nearly all of Alpine’s advantages while avoiding the drawbacks of musl.
My 2 cents. I have been using Alpine Linux as my main Linux distro for... I don't know how long, but probably more than 5 years at this point.
My only issues have been:
* Nvidia proprietary drivers (when I was building a PC with an old GPU).
* DRM (Netflix).
* I think I also had problems with SQLite3 while trying to install the Twitch test server thingy inside an Alpine container.
Other than that it's just minor things, just like every distro has some things that are different but no big deal.
> I think that, if you have a very consistent usage of Alpine, where you are mostly doing the same thing and using the same tools, you could find a comfy workflow there.
Yeah, or in my case it's because I try to keep the host minimalist and clean, and do most of the dirty/experimentation stuff in Docker, just to be able to nuke it from orbit once I'm done.
It's also dumbproof to make your own native packages if you want, for example if you want to use fonts but you can't just `git clone` because they require a build step (!).
Apparently some people have had issues with DNS, but I've never had any. I don't know if it's because I always point to my Unbound instance for DNS, or if it's just been a coincidence.
> I really wish, though, that package managers were more capable of differentiating between security and feature upgrades. If they were, we could run a rolling distro in “Debian mode” at will.
I missed his point here. Isn’t that what Debian Stable is? It is not like you do not get any updates in Debian. It is just that they are all security updates that do mot often bring new features. How is that different from what he is asking for?
I use a different MUSL-based distro and do not find it an issue. A bigger problem on Alpine for me would be the limited package selection. In both cases, the solution for me would be Distrobox.
I tend to install an Arch Distrobox but Debian would work too. Both have massive software repos all running on Glibc. Anything not natively in the Alpine repos can be installed from the Distrobox repo instead. If it is a command-line app, it is just opening a terminal and typing. And GUI apps can be exported to the host app launcher where they launch and run normally.
I guess there is some “friction” but it is very minor. And if you like the distro otherwise, the overall experience is net positive.
Personally, I dislike Glibc. I am happier without it. And, when I have to use it, I can easily.
I find the "overly detailed rundown" laying out the decision process great!
I think I have similar feelings about tweaking my own machines vs setting one up for others, but I do not share the sentiment about systemd and especially Arch.
> I really wish, though, that package managers were more capable of differentiating between security and feature upgrades. If they were, we could run a rolling distro in “Debian mode” at will.
This is exactly the sweet spot that Gentoo hits for me. The default configuration will install only "stable" packages, which are bumped ASAP for security reasons, but you're always free to switch a selection of (or all packages) to their "unstable" variants. Thanks to its source compiled nature, doing this is never a "partial upgrade", and is very well supported. Even if you use Gentoo as a binary distribution, portage is extremely meticulous in ensuring version compatibility.
And Gentoo can also be based on musl (experimental). I tried it for a while on a SBC, but arm (32bit) is not well supported in Gentoo and musl on arm is almost unusable, like ... completely abandoned.
15 comments
[ 3.2 ms ] story [ 30.4 ms ] threadMy only issues have been:
* Nvidia proprietary drivers (when I was building a PC with an old GPU).
* DRM (Netflix).
* I think I also had problems with SQLite3 while trying to install the Twitch test server thingy inside an Alpine container.
Other than that it's just minor things, just like every distro has some things that are different but no big deal.
> I think that, if you have a very consistent usage of Alpine, where you are mostly doing the same thing and using the same tools, you could find a comfy workflow there.
Yeah, or in my case it's because I try to keep the host minimalist and clean, and do most of the dirty/experimentation stuff in Docker, just to be able to nuke it from orbit once I'm done.
It's also dumbproof to make your own native packages if you want, for example if you want to use fonts but you can't just `git clone` because they require a build step (!).
Apparently some people have had issues with DNS, but I've never had any. I don't know if it's because I always point to my Unbound instance for DNS, or if it's just been a coincidence.
You're like a long-term classic-era-john-deere minimalist.
Personally I use it in multistage dockerfiles for when I do things like wget or file manipulation.
I missed his point here. Isn’t that what Debian Stable is? It is not like you do not get any updates in Debian. It is just that they are all security updates that do mot often bring new features. How is that different from what he is asking for?
I tend to install an Arch Distrobox but Debian would work too. Both have massive software repos all running on Glibc. Anything not natively in the Alpine repos can be installed from the Distrobox repo instead. If it is a command-line app, it is just opening a terminal and typing. And GUI apps can be exported to the host app launcher where they launch and run normally.
I guess there is some “friction” but it is very minor. And if you like the distro otherwise, the overall experience is net positive.
Personally, I dislike Glibc. I am happier without it. And, when I have to use it, I can easily.
I think I have similar feelings about tweaking my own machines vs setting one up for others, but I do not share the sentiment about systemd and especially Arch.
What cultural issues could there be?
This is exactly the sweet spot that Gentoo hits for me. The default configuration will install only "stable" packages, which are bumped ASAP for security reasons, but you're always free to switch a selection of (or all packages) to their "unstable" variants. Thanks to its source compiled nature, doing this is never a "partial upgrade", and is very well supported. Even if you use Gentoo as a binary distribution, portage is extremely meticulous in ensuring version compatibility.