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[ 3.5 ms ] story [ 38.6 ms ] thread
Edit: seems related to this ongoing thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45149336

Related. Others?

Normalization of Deviance (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34791106 - Feb 2023 (219 comments)

Normalization of Deviance (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22144330 - Jan 2020 (43 comments)

Normalization of deviance in software: broken practices become standard (2015) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15835870 - Dec 2017 (27 comments)

How Completely Messed Up Practices Become Normal - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10811822 - Dec 2015 (252 comments)

What We Can Learn From Aviation, Civil Engineering, Other Safety-critical Fields - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=10806063 - Dec 2015 (3 comments)

It's a piece which lists very good examples of normalization of deviance in organizations.

Personally it happened to myself as well. I regularly rent a Tesla and once, I took a date on a trip and I drove us through the city, her riding shotgun. She said: "Look at the orange line on the screen. You're driving too close to the parked cars on our right".

I answered, "it always does that, the proximity sensor on these Teslas is way too nervous". She looked out of the window and said: "no, you are actually way too close to the parked cars!"

I had totally normalized the proximity warning.

I completely agree with almost all of this.

But…

> Humans are bad at reasoning about how failures cascade, so we implement bright line rules about when it's safe to deploy.

I think aggregate human intuition is often undervalued. It is the case that every bright line rule has a cost, and the total cost of its adherence must be weighed against the occasional cost of failure to adhere.

Benefits don’t exist in a vacuum.

One unintended consequence of rolling big tech layoffs is the suppression of weak signals. The layoffs provide very strong signals and individuals feel no agency to resolve problems that they are observing. Maybe the siloed AI orgs inside of Microsoft/Google can still operate but the rest of these company is following the layoff orthodoxy.
> Microsoft was a joke in the security world for years, until multiple disastrously bad exploits forced them to get serious about security.

Microsoft's security orientation must have peaked before this article (2015), and the culture slid back, because I see a lot of folks bagging on Microsoft security right now. If true, deviance was normalized at Microsoft, de-normalized, and the re-normalized.

"[...]someone recently explained to me how great it is that, instead of using data to make decisions, we use political connections, and that the idea of making decisions based on data is a myth anyway; no one does that."

From my experience the second part is somewhat true. I have yet to see a "data driven" decision that wasn't actually driven by a very political process of choosing what data to gather and how to interpret the results.

(This obviously doesn't mean you should ignore data and focus on politics. Focus on making the politics good so that data can be properly used.)

OP wrote:

> He acknowledged that my way reduced the chance of failure without making the technical consequences of failure worse, but it was more important that we not be embarrassed. Now that I've been working for a decade, I have a better understanding of how and why people play this game, but I still find it absurd.

If OP's embarrassment comment and the topic of normalization of deviance interest you then you might find this soft (Social) Science Fiction short story to be amusingly enlightening...

"The trouble with you Earth people" by Katherine MacLean (1968)

https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Trouble_With_You_Ea...

^ link is to google books and their preview includes the entirety of the titular short story from the collection.

If ^ that short story is tl;dnr for you, Spoiler Alert:

Well meaning Alien POV discovery that Humankind is a self important and superstitious lot, and not mostly harmless.

I think of this concept every time a friend of mine keeps speeding on the highway and brags about not getting caught.
> The company that created @flaky is effectively a storage infrastructure company, and the library is widely used at its biggest competitor.

Good laugh!