Ocsp has always represented a terrible design. If clients require it, then it becomes just a override on the not after date included in the certificate, that requires online access to the cert server. If it is not required, then it is useless, because blocking the ocsp responses is well within the capabilities of any man in the middle attack, and makes the servers themselves DDOS attack targets.
The alternative to the privacy nightmare is ocsp stapling, which has the first problem once again - it adds complexity to the protocol just to add an override of the not after attribute, when the not after attribute could be updated just as easily with the original protocol, reissuing the certificate. It was a Band-Aid on the highly manual process of certain issuance that once dominated the space.
Good riddance to ocsp, I for one will not miss it.
The ship has very much sailed now with ballot SC63, and this is the result, but I still don't think CRLs are remotely a perfect solution (nor do I think OCSP was unfixable). You run into so many problems with the size of them, the updates not propagating immediately etc. It's just an ugly solution to the problem, that you then have to introduce further hacks (Bloom filters) atop of it all to make the whole mess work. I'm glad that Mozilla have done lots of work in this area with CRLite, but it does all feel like a bodge.
The advantages of OCSP were that you got a real-time understanding of the status of a certificate and you had no need to download large CRLs which become stale very quickly. If you set security.ocsp.require in the browser appropriately then you didn't have any risk of the browser failing open, either. I did that in the browser I was daily-driving for years and can count on one hand the number of times I ran into OCSP responder outages.
The privacy concerns could have been solved through adoption of Must-Staple, and you could then operate the OCSP responders purely for web-servers and folks doing research.
And let's not pretend users aren't already sending all the hostnames they are visiting to their selected DNS server. Why is that somehow okay, but OCSP not?
> I still don't think CRLs are remotely a perfect solution (nor do I think OCSP was unfixable)
> The privacy concerns could have been solved through adoption of Must-Staple
Agreed. I haven't followed every bit of the play-by-play here, but OCSP (multi-)stapling appeared to me to be a good solution to both the end-user privacy concerns and to the performance concerns.
This will not impact Chrome in any meaningful way because - in typical Google fashion - they invented their own bullshit called CRLSets that does not perform OCSP or CRL checks in any way, rather periodically downloads a preened blacklist from Google which it then uses to screen certificates.
Most people don't realize this.
It's quite insane given that Chrome will by default not check CRLs *at all* for internal, enterprise CAs.
Good. OCSP sucks. It's a fail-open design, and the fact that it exists means that a lot of security people have developed an auto-response for certificate lifetime problems, even in domains where OCSP is totally infeasible, like secure boot.
I can patiently explain why a ROM cannot query a fucking remote service for a certificate's validity, but it's a lot easier to just say "Look OCSP sucks, and Let's Encrypt stopped supporting it", especially to the types of people I argue with about these things.
Does anyone think this causes problems with HSTS? I had a few clients report issues with our site last week... I was unable to see any kind of problem across all browsers and several geographic locations. auth0, using letsencrypt
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[ 8.7 ms ] story [ 63.3 ms ] threadThe alternative to the privacy nightmare is ocsp stapling, which has the first problem once again - it adds complexity to the protocol just to add an override of the not after attribute, when the not after attribute could be updated just as easily with the original protocol, reissuing the certificate. It was a Band-Aid on the highly manual process of certain issuance that once dominated the space.
Good riddance to ocsp, I for one will not miss it.
The advantages of OCSP were that you got a real-time understanding of the status of a certificate and you had no need to download large CRLs which become stale very quickly. If you set security.ocsp.require in the browser appropriately then you didn't have any risk of the browser failing open, either. I did that in the browser I was daily-driving for years and can count on one hand the number of times I ran into OCSP responder outages.
The privacy concerns could have been solved through adoption of Must-Staple, and you could then operate the OCSP responders purely for web-servers and folks doing research.
And let's not pretend users aren't already sending all the hostnames they are visiting to their selected DNS server. Why is that somehow okay, but OCSP not?
> The privacy concerns could have been solved through adoption of Must-Staple
Agreed. I haven't followed every bit of the play-by-play here, but OCSP (multi-)stapling appeared to me to be a good solution to both the end-user privacy concerns and to the performance concerns.
Most people don't realize this.
It's quite insane given that Chrome will by default not check CRLs *at all* for internal, enterprise CAs.
I can patiently explain why a ROM cannot query a fucking remote service for a certificate's validity, but it's a lot easier to just say "Look OCSP sucks, and Let's Encrypt stopped supporting it", especially to the types of people I argue with about these things.
This sometimes collides with enterprise security policies that you should "never use port 80" (always 443).