> It seems pretty bad to need to print your own grill when Noctua collaborated on the project.
not really, like if that would be seen as bad in general then the only solution would be to keep it a secret that they "collaborated" on it
like giving you employees a bit of time to work on product related passion projects, which might even cross company boundaries and can be used in a PR context is one thing. And a good example for it is software companies reserving some time of employees to work on OSS (in a context where OSS contributions go beyond what the company needs). It boost employee moral, is positive PR, let people learn/train their skills etc.
but going from there to a product they sell is a HUGE step, like far larger then it seems
like the cost between the tinkerer project from the article and turning it into a product is more like a x-times multipler then some two digit % increase.
a good example is a previous collaboration where for a 3d printed casing for the framework 13 motherboard, where due to high demand they then decided to produce it
but for production lines you now need to meet higher quality standard and 3d printing often isn't an option, so no it needs 2 molds and in addition the screw now need to have proper stable/metal thingies you screw them into in-layed into the mold. And you need to have QA, production line inspections etc. Idk. if they made money or a loss or neutral on it but at least from a QA perspective they got burned as many of the casings had quality issues where you needed to fix them with a sharp knife or they wouldn't close properly
now companies have 3 choices
- not allow such passion projects, which sucks for everyone
- allows them, but keep them secret, which still sucks for most
- rebrand it as "some vision prototype", "experimental change to the form factor" or similar (which is what many other tech companies do), now most people are happy except the tinkerers which could just print it, let it be printed with a 3d printing service
- allow them, show them, and make most people happy except the small amount of people which really want it, aren't fine with any tinkering and blame the company for showing something nice which might not make sense to sell as a product
and in that context I really prefer it the way Framework and Noctua tend to do it
> It must be noted that customer safety and EMC requirements for the mini PC, a standalone electrical item, differ from those for hardware components (such as the PSU) designed to be inside a PC case. The safety standard suggests that ventilation openings on case side panels need to be less than 5mm in diameter.
...but it's a plastic panel? I don't understand how this helps with EMC.
With the all-flat layout of the Ryzen APU and soldered memory I always though the framework desktop MB would be ideal for a single waterblock covering the entire MB.
I would really be interested in desktop if so many items weren't non-upgradable. It's bad enough the CPU and GPU, but understandable, cannot be upgraded, you're stuck with the selected memory at purchase too. Even the laptops have up-gradable memory and that's typically where you would see memory soldered to the board.
My brother's car/camping fridge's compressor fan died. He replaced it with a Noctua. It's 1/3rd the volume and actually has slightly MORE airlow than the 20c 90mm fan that was ziptied to it from the factory.
I bought some custom molded earplugs recently and I got 3 sets - two are completely sealed off and are very nice for when I wish for peace and quiet and don’t need to hear or speak.
I also use noise canceling mode on my airpods pro quite often.
The advantage is that it works even when I’m in an environment I can’t control, like an airport or waiting room.
We tolerate way too much noise in our daily lives, especially in dense cities. It’s a hidden tax on our health. Constant low-level noise has been linked to stress, sleep disruption, and even cardiovascular issues.
What bothers me is that we only regulate the loudest offenders (cars, motorcycles, construction), while the residual of everything else is just accepted as background. But that background adds up.
I wish we had stricter regulations not only for peak noise but also for the residual noise emitted by everyday objects. If reducing a few decibels here and there became a design goal across the board, the cumulative effect on quality of life in cities would be enormous.
We don't even do a good enough job at regulating peak noise. There are asshats who have anti theft alarms on their cars that go off for what feels like hours and they don't stop by to check on their cars. Also there are idiots who deliberately destroy the silencers or mufflers on their bikes. I think these things are a higher priority.
Its really cool how, despite the core chip at the heart of the Framework Desktop not being that extensible, Framework went out of their way to make the FD as extensible and modular as possible, and are fostering a community of 3D printing stuff around it.
Nocuta is a case study in how to make a high quality and luxury product to dominate a seemly small market. In a seemingly commoditized market where fans can be had for $3-$4 Nocuta still demands and get's $30-$40 dollars.
Not sure I agree here. Yes, maybe it's 10x the price (which I doubt in the first place) it's actually performing very well, measurably.
I don't know how you benchmark a Rolex vs a Seiko for 500 bucks. That is luxury to me. And yet it is perfectly fine to argue a Casio for 10-20 bucks performs just as well.
I don't think they dominate. Noctua used to be the best, but current reputation as far as I've seen is that the performance isn't necessarily better than the competition. You buy them for durability and supporting the engineering, but most (not some/fringe) DIY builders choose a cheaper brand.
It's a bit more pronounced in CPU cooling towers, they are solid blocks where durability doesn't play a role. Noctua is good but the top performer and market leader is Thermalright which costs a third of Noctua.
Gotta give it the old Noctua and blow on that thang. Their fans are seriously awesome. I didn’t believe the hype at first until a Ryzen build was 5-15C cooler, and a lot quieter.
I loves me some Noctua. I suspect that the very quiet single 120mm is enough to keep air moving sufficiently through my 3090 GPU server chassis (though I also put a couple 80mm where 4U chassis airflow narrows in the rear, just to be safe).
I also put Noctuas in short-depth 1U servers and routers at home, usually 40mm.
If I were that concerned about noise from my computers, I would leverage the inverse square law and put them in another room and use long video and input cables.
I have a 3D printer I bought a few years ago and I keep it in my office. It was quite loud as is and I sent through the process of quieting it down. Fans were a big part of it. It has four of them: power supply, main board, and two on the hot end/extruder. Noctua was what was mostly recommended, but (a) price and (b) at the time I believe they mostly or only had 12 volt fans and this printer ran on 24V so each fan would need a voltage converter board.
Well turns out you can get quieter and cheaper fans on e.g. Mouser or Newark that are 24V compatible. They let you sort and filter by size, voltage, noise level, and volume per minute so I found the quietest possible fans that still move roughly the same volume of air as the stock ones. The price was half to a quarter of equivalent Noctua fans (excluding converters) at that time.
From what I hear (pun intended) Noctua makes a great product both functionally and aesthetically, but don’t overlook industrial suppliers either.
Noctua was founded and operates in accordance with my values. I valued what they offer before they were in the market and was overjoyed to buy their products as soon as they were available.
Raspberry Pis, repurposed HP DL380s, personal art projects... anything that ever needed a fan--if it didn't use Noctua fans before I started and there was an application for a Noctua fan, a Noctua fan was applied.
Fan quality is one of the metrics I evaluate when I purchase products. Great fan solutions in products are good indicators of great design.
35 comments
[ 4.0 ms ] story [ 63.3 ms ] threadnot really, like if that would be seen as bad in general then the only solution would be to keep it a secret that they "collaborated" on it
like giving you employees a bit of time to work on product related passion projects, which might even cross company boundaries and can be used in a PR context is one thing. And a good example for it is software companies reserving some time of employees to work on OSS (in a context where OSS contributions go beyond what the company needs). It boost employee moral, is positive PR, let people learn/train their skills etc.
but going from there to a product they sell is a HUGE step, like far larger then it seems
like the cost between the tinkerer project from the article and turning it into a product is more like a x-times multipler then some two digit % increase.
a good example is a previous collaboration where for a 3d printed casing for the framework 13 motherboard, where due to high demand they then decided to produce it
but for production lines you now need to meet higher quality standard and 3d printing often isn't an option, so no it needs 2 molds and in addition the screw now need to have proper stable/metal thingies you screw them into in-layed into the mold. And you need to have QA, production line inspections etc. Idk. if they made money or a loss or neutral on it but at least from a QA perspective they got burned as many of the casings had quality issues where you needed to fix them with a sharp knife or they wouldn't close properly
now companies have 3 choices
- not allow such passion projects, which sucks for everyone
- allows them, but keep them secret, which still sucks for most
- rebrand it as "some vision prototype", "experimental change to the form factor" or similar (which is what many other tech companies do), now most people are happy except the tinkerers which could just print it, let it be printed with a 3d printing service
- allow them, show them, and make most people happy except the small amount of people which really want it, aren't fine with any tinkering and blame the company for showing something nice which might not make sense to sell as a product
and in that context I really prefer it the way Framework and Noctua tend to do it
...but it's a plastic panel? I don't understand how this helps with EMC.
https://www.palit.com/palit/vgapro.php?id=5147&lang=en
Like I’d love for them to make my HVAC system quieter.
Or table fans. Or car air conditioners.
Just about every fan in my life would be better if Noctua redesigned it.
They’d be like Dolby, but for making LESS noise.
I also use noise canceling mode on my airpods pro quite often.
The advantage is that it works even when I’m in an environment I can’t control, like an airport or waiting room.
What bothers me is that we only regulate the loudest offenders (cars, motorcycles, construction), while the residual of everything else is just accepted as background. But that background adds up.
I wish we had stricter regulations not only for peak noise but also for the residual noise emitted by everyday objects. If reducing a few decibels here and there became a design goal across the board, the cumulative effect on quality of life in cities would be enormous.
I’ve relegated the Synology to the basement. I can still hear it grinding at night.
I don't know how you benchmark a Rolex vs a Seiko for 500 bucks. That is luxury to me. And yet it is perfectly fine to argue a Casio for 10-20 bucks performs just as well.
It's a bit more pronounced in CPU cooling towers, they are solid blocks where durability doesn't play a role. Noctua is good but the top performer and market leader is Thermalright which costs a third of Noctua.
All I had to do was send them the receipt for the cooler.
I also put Noctuas in short-depth 1U servers and routers at home, usually 40mm.
Well turns out you can get quieter and cheaper fans on e.g. Mouser or Newark that are 24V compatible. They let you sort and filter by size, voltage, noise level, and volume per minute so I found the quietest possible fans that still move roughly the same volume of air as the stock ones. The price was half to a quarter of equivalent Noctua fans (excluding converters) at that time.
From what I hear (pun intended) Noctua makes a great product both functionally and aesthetically, but don’t overlook industrial suppliers either.
Raspberry Pis, repurposed HP DL380s, personal art projects... anything that ever needed a fan--if it didn't use Noctua fans before I started and there was an application for a Noctua fan, a Noctua fan was applied.
Fan quality is one of the metrics I evaluate when I purchase products. Great fan solutions in products are good indicators of great design.
Fanless is heavy and expensive but IMO it's worth it considering all the problems with fans, including noise and longevity
There is nothing wrong with solodolo's comment, unless I am missing something
Personal experience with fanless is the computer indeed gets used for more years than ones with fans
"Industrial" computers are often fanless
Not every computer is used for playing graphical video games