I love this so much, as someone who tends to listen to a single piece of music on repeat (especially while coding) and has spent a lot of time with Yo-Yo Ma's "Six Evolutions".
Loved learning about the deep diversity of recordings from other artists, the ambiguous history of the music, and that there's a question if the music was even originally written for a cello!
Also loved that the site recommends different recordings based on the mood of interpretation.
This all reminds me of the HN favorite, "Reality has a lot of detail." Feel like I just discovered fractal complexity in a piece of music I naively thought I knew well.
My year in review music roundups from Spotify or Apple Music have always been totally useless because I code to Steve Reich's Music for 18 Musicians almost daily. Something about that composition just gets me in the zone and I've been using it to study or work to since I first heard it in college 20+ years ago.
Oh great, I'm glad! I vividly remember the first time a friend that was studying 18 Musicians for a class at Berklee came over to my apartment with the original ECM vinyl and we just sat there silently listening for the hour. I don't think I'll ever grow tired of listening to it.
I can highly recommend the William Skeen recordings of the Cello Suites, recorded and released by one of the best classical labels: Reference Recordings. You get the historically informed sound and the absolute best sound quality in one package.
My understanding is that for centuries after Bach's death, they were disregarded. They were seen almost as etudes, for cellists to use for practice to hone their technique. They didn't really gain their current status as respectable concert pieces until Pablo Casals dug them up in the early 20th century and produced his classic recordings.
> My understanding is that for centuries after Bach's death, they were disregarded.
Not exactly.
Bach died in 1750. At this time the "market" for music was going through big changes. In Bach's time the main customers for music were courts of barons and kings and municipalities. That's the career he had, a musikmeister.
But look deeper and you'll see an economic landscape changing: the rise of cities, merchants, financial capitalism, etc. A bourgeoisie was rising and consuming music in concert rooms, opera houses and for private playing. But this bourgeoisie had different tastes. They didn't have a deep musical instruction so they preferred more "pop" music: easy to listen, easy to play, easy to follow. Bach's music is the opposite of it. It was out of fashion.
Bach's sons followed this simplified style. Most of all, Carl Philip Emanuel Bach was big into it. He got so good at this that he became an instructor and mentor to both Mozart and Haydn.
But Carl never stopped adoring his father music and used Johan Sebastian Bach (his dad) material for teaching. So J.S. Bach was widely known and venerated among musicians, including Beethoven.
However, the public recognition of Bach's worth only began when Mendelssohn made public presentations of his masses, in 1829. But this was 37 years before Pablo Casals was born.
I asked Claude Code who the greatest composer of all time was (mostly on a lark) expecting something very non-committal that weighed the accomplishments of the various great composers. Instead, I got back a one word answer: Bach.
The Bach Cello Suites are deservedly famous, but if you are looking to branch out to other solo cello music I recommend listening to Zoltan Kodály's Sonata for Unaccompanied Cello. After the Bach Cello Suites it is probably the most important piece in the solo cello repertoire. One of the unusual features of the piece is that it calls for the bottom two strings to be tuned down half a step which gives the cello a darker timbre.
Hey, Joe! This is one of my favorite cello pieces -- so hauntingly beautiful. I've probably listened to Janos Starker's performance dozens of times, but I also liked Inbal Segev's version. Parts of it seemed brighter somehow.
FYI, We just had world-class cellist Steuart Pincombe here in Austin last month performing the last three Bach cello concertos along with three matched brews from the excellent local Lazarus brewery as part of his occcasional "Bach and Beer" performances.
He's a flat amazing cellist, and watching him perform that last concerto you really realize how hard he's working to get it done - it's a workout. Anyway, it was a really good evening. (FWIW, this was part of the Arts On Alexander program this year, which is one of Austin's lesser known gems of amazing live classical music performaces.
This piece can also do well on violin -- just transpose up an octave and a fifth. I did that on violin, and it was easy, but making really good music out of it, as Rostropovich, is different.
The Netherlands Bach Society has actually started a huge project to produce high quality video recordings to all of Bach's catalogue. You can find the videos on their YT channel (https://www.youtube.com/bach) or www.allofbach.com.
I'm pretty sure I learned about this project from HN many, many years ago.
One of the pages mentioned a 'cello da spalla, which I hadn't heard of before, so I found this YouTube video introducing it and playing part of a prelude on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD4kNY34AoE
I enjoy instruments that, for whatever reason, seem to have been discarded by progress - viola da gamba, mandolincello, etc. It's amazing how rich all of our musical traditions are, that we have so many delightful variations on so many lovely ideas.
Since you mention the viola da gamba, I'll mention that in the US, the Viola da Gamba Society of America[0] is keeping the tradition alive. I'm a rusty cellist and learned of the vdgsa a few years ago. They have an annual conclave for players of all levels to learn, play, and have a good time. There was a conclave about 2.5 hrs from my home, and it was advertised as free for beginners, with the option to rent an instrument for the duration of the event across ~ a week. I also play the bass guitar and double bass, which like the gamba family are tuned in fourths vs fifths for the violin family, so I figured I'd show up and try my hand at the instrument.
They are a friendly and welcoming community maintaining a rental network in the US for the different types of violas da gamba. They have a strong interest as an organization in funding the continued scholarship, performance, and community for these forgotten instruments. It was very cool. I've since gotten my hands on a rental bass viol, though I haven't had as much time for it as I'd like.
IMO Rostropovich and Jian Wang[1] have the best recordings, two sides of the same coin. I never understand the hype of Yo-Yo Ma. And if you like Jian Wang, you would probably also like Viktoria Mullova's interpretation of Sonatas and Partitas
Shouting into the void no doubt, but there are few things in life that make me more disappointed than people extending that first note in the first cello suite. The prelude is a thing of such crystalline beauty and I have no problem with you elaborating on it later, but the way literally everyone plays it is jarring right out of the gate.
Anyway, while we're at it, if you like your cello with a little bit more welly:
As someone who listens to a lot of "Classical" music (more late Classical, early Romantic if we're being specific) I've never really understood the modern universal appeal of Bach.
I find so much of his music quite impenetrable and kind of overwhelming. Things like the Cello Suites with their single line of music very demure. Whenever I try to listen to the Well Tempered Klavier as a set I'm quickly saturated by the third or fourth pair...
It's usually not until I sit down at the piano and play Bach and read the score that I'm then suddenly profoundly moved by the almost divine quality of his music and the "just so" genius writing of his music. But being truly honest I struggle to hear it at face value often - am I just slow / a poor listener?
41 comments
[ 6.1 ms ] story [ 80.6 ms ] threadLoved learning about the deep diversity of recordings from other artists, the ambiguous history of the music, and that there's a question if the music was even originally written for a cello!
Also loved that the site recommends different recordings based on the mood of interpretation.
This all reminds me of the HN favorite, "Reality has a lot of detail." Feel like I just discovered fractal complexity in a piece of music I naively thought I knew well.
8 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16184255
6 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22020495
2 years ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38407851
https://referencerecordings.com/recording/the-six-cello-suit...
My understanding is that for centuries after Bach's death, they were disregarded. They were seen almost as etudes, for cellists to use for practice to hone their technique. They didn't really gain their current status as respectable concert pieces until Pablo Casals dug them up in the early 20th century and produced his classic recordings.
Not exactly.
Bach died in 1750. At this time the "market" for music was going through big changes. In Bach's time the main customers for music were courts of barons and kings and municipalities. That's the career he had, a musikmeister.
But look deeper and you'll see an economic landscape changing: the rise of cities, merchants, financial capitalism, etc. A bourgeoisie was rising and consuming music in concert rooms, opera houses and for private playing. But this bourgeoisie had different tastes. They didn't have a deep musical instruction so they preferred more "pop" music: easy to listen, easy to play, easy to follow. Bach's music is the opposite of it. It was out of fashion.
Bach's sons followed this simplified style. Most of all, Carl Philip Emanuel Bach was big into it. He got so good at this that he became an instructor and mentor to both Mozart and Haydn.
But Carl never stopped adoring his father music and used Johan Sebastian Bach (his dad) material for teaching. So J.S. Bach was widely known and venerated among musicians, including Beethoven.
However, the public recognition of Bach's worth only began when Mendelssohn made public presentations of his masses, in 1829. But this was 37 years before Pablo Casals was born.
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inspired_by_Bach
If you're in Toronto, Canada, you can visit the park that was inspired by No. 1:
* https://www.toronto.ca/explore-enjoy/parks-recreation/places...
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto_Music_Garden
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phygv_Et9sQ
They also have a YouTube channel [2]
[1] https://www.bachvereniging.nl/en/allofbach
[2] https://m.youtube.com/bach
He's a flat amazing cellist, and watching him perform that last concerto you really realize how hard he's working to get it done - it's a workout. Anyway, it was a really good evening. (FWIW, this was part of the Arts On Alexander program this year, which is one of Austin's lesser known gems of amazing live classical music performaces.
Rostropovich
Prelude from Bach Cello Suite No.1 BWV 1007
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ml14kGHCBg0
Also Maurice Gendron as at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDPdCJ7nVss&list=PLuc6tv6pjL...
This piece can also do well on violin -- just transpose up an octave and a fifth. I did that on violin, and it was easy, but making really good music out of it, as Rostropovich, is different.
For a violin performance:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3a9F-LEdiA
I'm pretty sure I learned about this project from HN many, many years ago.
I enjoy instruments that, for whatever reason, seem to have been discarded by progress - viola da gamba, mandolincello, etc. It's amazing how rich all of our musical traditions are, that we have so many delightful variations on so many lovely ideas.
They are a friendly and welcoming community maintaining a rental network in the US for the different types of violas da gamba. They have a strong interest as an organization in funding the continued scholarship, performance, and community for these forgotten instruments. It was very cool. I've since gotten my hands on a rental bass viol, though I haven't had as much time for it as I'd like.
[0] https://www.vdgsa.org/
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCSqHFgSUhU&list=PL8Hi9pw3gE...
Anyway, while we're at it, if you like your cello with a little bit more welly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUgdbqt2ON0
While you're here, what other classical music can you recommend, especially for listening while working/focusing?
For me, it's currently
- Max Richter, discovered recently and he is fantastic
- The 'New Classical Essentials' playlist in Apple Music
- Brahms, especially String Sextet No. 1 (warning: can make Vulcans cry)
I've been listening to Scarlatti keyboard sonatas recently. They're great. He was born the same year as Bach.
I'm probably a dinosaur but I have yet to find a version better than the very old Fischer-Dieskau/Gerald Moore combo.
He's the godfather of the Bach suites. All other recordings are derivative.
I would appreciate a breakdown of metal vs gut strings in the recordings.
I find so much of his music quite impenetrable and kind of overwhelming. Things like the Cello Suites with their single line of music very demure. Whenever I try to listen to the Well Tempered Klavier as a set I'm quickly saturated by the third or fourth pair...
It's usually not until I sit down at the piano and play Bach and read the score that I'm then suddenly profoundly moved by the almost divine quality of his music and the "just so" genius writing of his music. But being truly honest I struggle to hear it at face value often - am I just slow / a poor listener?