All I want is a quality split mechanical keyboard with Function keys. I use an IDE all day, I don't want to pull quadruple buckies every time I debug.
The Matias Ergo Pro is almost perfect, but I had two of them and they both failed within one year. I had one of each switch type (low force and regular) - both were missing some button presses and repeating other button presses.
I've been running an Ergo Pro since 2015. Ordered like 40 extra key switches and have had to resolder in about a dozen as replacements so far. Annoying, but I'm keeping it going!
Gel wrist pads?... Not a great implementation. I either need to work up a 3d printed DIY replacement via covering TPU (or something of the like) or order a first party replacement.
I also have a "flat" gelpad on one of my Ergo Pros. Came that way from the factory, but it never really bothered me enough to complain to them. I love the gelpad palm rests (not wrist).
I love my moonlander so much, I bought a second one for work. Both were secondhand, so the sticker shock wasn't quite so bad. Though, I did end up spending some of that savings on custom, coiled cables. A coworker, after seeing my setup, also ended buying two.
I agree with the author. It's a tool, and if your job requires a lot of computer use, it is worth it to invest in a tool that can not only help prevent RSI, but also make you much more productive.
I switched to a Colemak-dh layout at the same time, and it was a huge adjustment. I'm not sure it was really worth it yet. It is hard to catch up to 30+ years of QWERTY muscle memory, though. Key layout aside, the ortholinear arrangement has absolutely been worth it. It feels much more comfortable, especially with the tenting set up.
ZSA's layout editor and customer support also deserve a shoutout. Can't recommend it enough.
I like my Moonlander, but if you want to see a real scam of a keyboard try buying (please don't) one of "WORK LOUDER"'s keyboards like the Nomad E. $350-500, gimmicks you'll never use, non-open-source firmware, cheap build quality, no refunds.
I too have a moonlander but imo the biggest gain from most mechs isnt how they can tent but being ortholinear in nature reducing some of the more awkward directional movements of a staggered keyboard. Honestly my biggest gripe with the moonlander is its too many keys, a 40% is more than enough, less can be more in many ways.
My datahand is probably my favorite keyboard though for reducing movement while avoiding too much repetition. If it ever bites the dust beyond repair I'd absolutely move to a diy svalboard build or whatever similar alternative is it's contemporary.
I started having RSI issues 2 years ago, what a way to welcome me to my 30s. It was excruciatingly painful just getting through a workday even with plenty of breaks. I didn't care for building my own keyboard I literally just wanted something to help me not be in pain no matter how weird it looked.
I've ended up on a Kinesis advantage 360 pro after spending thousands of dollars on keyboards because I needed something that allowed me to type for more than 5 minutes at a time without pain.
The things I think are key for people with persistent issues:
- programmable keys
- tenting
- concavity (rules out most keyboards)
- thumb clusters
- ortholinear
I know some go without the concavity but I just cannot go back. Its so much more comfortable on my hands.
Programmable keys are probably the most important though, primarily so you can pick which stretches and awkward movements to completely remove and no longer have to do.
For example I've entirely removed the need to ever stretch my pinkies and ring fingers on both hands. It destroys my hands having to do so on a normal keyboard and so many normal shortcuts require excessive pinky finger movement.
I honestly think anybody who plans on using a keyboard for the rest of their life should invest in a high quality keyboard even if it's expensive. I would not be able to continue working today without having done so.
Runner up is the glove 80, but the only thing is I don't like how flimsy it feels in my hands compared to how solid the kinesis feels.
I have two moonlanders but wound up giving up because I just couldn't adapt to it. And when writing code, finding the symbols like {, =, }, and other common coding ones was just too difficult to retain muscle memory. I tried many layouts, I tried to make my own, and at the end of the day it was just too different. I wish I had a better experience.
My main keyboard has been a 34-key split Ferris. I usually have either a trackpad between the halves if I’m using a Mac or an ergonomic Logitech if on my Linux desktop. Not having to move my hands at all while being able to reach any keys/characters I need has been a welcomed change, worth remapping my brain.
I've been using a 42-key corne for 5 years and I can't imagine using a regular keyboard. The way I sit is now different: my arms are spread apart instead of crowding in front of me. This alone helps me pay more attention to the work I'm doing because I'm not hunching over. It took a few months for the layout to sink in, but the ability to customize the layout was insanely helpful and now the way I interface with a computer is exactly how I think it ought to be. The entire thing was $90 with a 3d printed case that's still holding strong. I tented it with some jenga blocks and it's flawless. I almost never look at the thing.
The Moonlander is way too large IMO. A 42 key layout is about perfect and requires ~zero wrist movement.
The corne has three thumb buttons on each side, but it's effectively five thumb buttons on each side because two can be pressed at the same time. So your layout can be [Mod1] [Layer] [Mod2] and you can easily use [Mod1]/[Mod2] with anything on [Layer]. And when you press [Mod1], a thumb key on the other hand becomes [Mod2]. So you basically get to use every possible combo. I have five mod keys this way: Shift, Ctrl, Alt, Super and Hyper. And multiple layer keys.
There are still key combos that I could tap out with lightning speed on my old keyboard that I still struggle to type as fast: C-M-- (negative argument) followed by another key, such as C-M-k, is one such example.
I wish I had more keys, yet ironically I have empty keys I do not use at all on the keyboard.
Stick those sequences on those empty keys as macros. Or assign one of those empty keys to control-meta.
Another vote for the Glove 80: I used the Kinesis Advantage 2 for 10 years (after a few initial signs of finger pain developing), then tried the new 360; and recently got the glove 80 so I could easily travel with it and fell in love with the keyboard.
It definitely doesn't feel as solid as the Kinesis or ergodox (which I used intermittently as well) but is the most comfortable keyboard I've used, the LEDs are actually useful (for showing battery life and bluetooth connections), and there are enough keys (including function keys); I don't like having to reason about layers at all, I want to be able to smoothly transition to my laptop's keyboard in a pinch).
I love my moonlander. I bought it on release and it is best computer accessory I know of.
I extensively customized the software. My favourite is controlling cursor with keyboard, I have one hand mode, etc.
One note — when I purchased the Moonlander their "The Platform" wasn't available. I bought it couple month ago and it improved experience even more.
I struggled with the Moonlander although it is a wonderful keyboard.
I mapped it to a Colemak layout varient when I first got it. I was constantly discovering key combos that didn't quite work for whatever reason and made tweaks to the layout or the shortcuts in various editors. Forever tying my brain in knots learning and relearning mappings and combos. Then I'd frequently jump on other peoples computers/laptops to help out with small things and have to switch back to the old mode of thinking.
It ended up being a productivity sink rather than a boon. I don't know whether I would have crossed some inflection point if I had persevered, but there was always this fixed cost of tweaking shortcuts when using new software that was more burdensome than with a plain qwerty keyboard.
Maybe I was too ambitious and should have avoided the Colemak-esque layout, but I haven't managed to summon the stamina to give it a fair go again. I still use one half of it for gaming though. It's really sweet for that.
I love my Ergodox EZ except that I haven't flashed it for years and I'm not totally sure what all the keys did on all the layers. Still worth it, somehow!!
Had been looking at these for some time. A few days of pain where I couldn’t type much and the threat tariffs turning on at the end of the month, this was early August, caused me to pull the trigger on a Voyager, ZSA’s low profile keyboard.
Couldn’t be happier. I’ve used QMK, even writing some C for a board, and limited key keyboards before and their software really does make it a lot simpler to configure. It’s also really nice to have leds indexable per key so you can color code things when you’re learning.
They cost a lot more now for those in the US[0] but I’d still recommend them. My pain hasn’t come back and honestly even at +20% that’s worth it.
Switched early to a left-handed 65% keyboard setup—Keychron K7 Max QM7 on the left, Trackpad Pro and MX Master 3S on the right. Feels quick, natural, and fixes what Apple’s keyboards never did.
I've found just switching between differently shaped keyboards regularly was enough to cure my RSI. I don't have anything fancy: a Unicomp Model M at work and a Microsoft Natural at home.
Having gone down the rabbit hole of concave keyboards from Kinesis advantage to iterations of self printed dactyl manifolds I ended up at Svalboard too.
Combined with adjustable carrier arms it has enabled me to continue working even post recent shoulder surgery.
Yes it’s an obscene amount of money but it works and enables me to continue earning a living in front of a screen.
Oddly, switching to a custom Lisp Machine-inspired keyboard has been better for hand/wrist pain than my Ergodox or the Kinesis Advantage I used before. It's a staggered key, non-split, flat QWERTY keyboard. I think maybe they're just good keyswitches? Here's the keyboard: https://jfloren.net/b/2024/10/23/0
The thing I don’t like about keyboards this is that I still have to use a mouse and these keyboards don’t really address that. If I mounted on the arms of my desk, it’s even harder to get to the mouse. Maybe a few people can get away with just them all day, but I can’t.
78 comments
[ 4.2 ms ] story [ 88.2 ms ] threadI have a Microsoft sculpt at work, and a macbook. The macbook keyboard has been great IME.
The Matias Ergo Pro is almost perfect, but I had two of them and they both failed within one year. I had one of each switch type (low force and regular) - both were missing some button presses and repeating other button presses.
Gel wrist pads?... Not a great implementation. I either need to work up a 3d printed DIY replacement via covering TPU (or something of the like) or order a first party replacement.
I also have a "flat" gelpad on one of my Ergo Pros. Came that way from the factory, but it never really bothered me enough to complain to them. I love the gelpad palm rests (not wrist).
I agree with the author. It's a tool, and if your job requires a lot of computer use, it is worth it to invest in a tool that can not only help prevent RSI, but also make you much more productive.
I switched to a Colemak-dh layout at the same time, and it was a huge adjustment. I'm not sure it was really worth it yet. It is hard to catch up to 30+ years of QWERTY muscle memory, though. Key layout aside, the ortholinear arrangement has absolutely been worth it. It feels much more comfortable, especially with the tenting set up.
ZSA's layout editor and customer support also deserve a shoutout. Can't recommend it enough.
My datahand is probably my favorite keyboard though for reducing movement while avoiding too much repetition. If it ever bites the dust beyond repair I'd absolutely move to a diy svalboard build or whatever similar alternative is it's contemporary.
I've ended up on a Kinesis advantage 360 pro after spending thousands of dollars on keyboards because I needed something that allowed me to type for more than 5 minutes at a time without pain.
The things I think are key for people with persistent issues:
- programmable keys
- tenting
- concavity (rules out most keyboards)
- thumb clusters
- ortholinear
I know some go without the concavity but I just cannot go back. Its so much more comfortable on my hands.
Programmable keys are probably the most important though, primarily so you can pick which stretches and awkward movements to completely remove and no longer have to do.
For example I've entirely removed the need to ever stretch my pinkies and ring fingers on both hands. It destroys my hands having to do so on a normal keyboard and so many normal shortcuts require excessive pinky finger movement.
I honestly think anybody who plans on using a keyboard for the rest of their life should invest in a high quality keyboard even if it's expensive. I would not be able to continue working today without having done so.
Runner up is the glove 80, but the only thing is I don't like how flimsy it feels in my hands compared to how solid the kinesis feels.
Any recommendations?
https://arjtala.github.io/2022/09/17/ferris-compact.html
Another commenter complained that it feels insubstantial. However its light weight is much preferred for travel. It's fine.
The Moonlander is way too large IMO. A 42 key layout is about perfect and requires ~zero wrist movement.
The corne has three thumb buttons on each side, but it's effectively five thumb buttons on each side because two can be pressed at the same time. So your layout can be [Mod1] [Layer] [Mod2] and you can easily use [Mod1]/[Mod2] with anything on [Layer]. And when you press [Mod1], a thumb key on the other hand becomes [Mod2]. So you basically get to use every possible combo. I have five mod keys this way: Shift, Ctrl, Alt, Super and Hyper. And multiple layer keys.
I wish I had more keys, yet ironically I have empty keys I do not use at all on the keyboard.
Stick those sequences on those empty keys as macros. Or assign one of those empty keys to control-meta.
It definitely doesn't feel as solid as the Kinesis or ergodox (which I used intermittently as well) but is the most comfortable keyboard I've used, the LEDs are actually useful (for showing battery life and bluetooth connections), and there are enough keys (including function keys); I don't like having to reason about layers at all, I want to be able to smoothly transition to my laptop's keyboard in a pinch).
One note — when I purchased the Moonlander their "The Platform" wasn't available. I bought it couple month ago and it improved experience even more.
I mapped it to a Colemak layout varient when I first got it. I was constantly discovering key combos that didn't quite work for whatever reason and made tweaks to the layout or the shortcuts in various editors. Forever tying my brain in knots learning and relearning mappings and combos. Then I'd frequently jump on other peoples computers/laptops to help out with small things and have to switch back to the old mode of thinking.
It ended up being a productivity sink rather than a boon. I don't know whether I would have crossed some inflection point if I had persevered, but there was always this fixed cost of tweaking shortcuts when using new software that was more burdensome than with a plain qwerty keyboard.
Maybe I was too ambitious and should have avoided the Colemak-esque layout, but I haven't managed to summon the stamina to give it a fair go again. I still use one half of it for gaming though. It's really sweet for that.
Couldn’t be happier. I’ve used QMK, even writing some C for a board, and limited key keyboards before and their software really does make it a lot simpler to configure. It’s also really nice to have leds indexable per key so you can color code things when you’re learning.
They cost a lot more now for those in the US[0] but I’d still recommend them. My pain hasn’t come back and honestly even at +20% that’s worth it.
0: https://www.reddit.com/r/zsaVoyager/comments/1n9en4b/us_tari...
https://svalboard.com/
Combined with adjustable carrier arms it has enabled me to continue working even post recent shoulder surgery.
Yes it’s an obscene amount of money but it works and enables me to continue earning a living in front of a screen.