> In the 20th century, U.S. companies put their excess profits into corporate research labs. Basic research in the U.S. was done in at Dupont, Bell Labs, IBM, AT&T, Xerox, Kodak, GE, et al. This changed in 1982, when the Securities and Exchange Commission ruled that it was legal for companies to buy their own stock (reducing the number of shares available to the public and inflating their stock price.) Very quickly Basic Science in corporate research all but disappeared. Companies focused on Applied Research to maximize shareholder value. In its place, Theory and Basic research is now done in research universities.
I'm not seeing how you get from share buybacks to a shift in priorities in corporate research. If there's a fundamental reason why it can't be done now how it was before the 80's it's not that.
At least for AT&T, Kodak, and IBM, what was funding their research divisions was monopoly profits. When those dried up, the research dried up as well. The modern equivalent to AT&T is Google.
Share buyback is the same as giving dividends - except the share holder doesn’t have to pay taxes until they sell. To the company, they spend the same amount on share buyback vs giving dividends. I don’t see how this argument holds up.
Further more, while some might argue that corporate R&D is better due to being closer to the problem but it is private research and not shared with the world like university research is.
Corporate R&D dies under the short-term thinking of quarterly profits. The best pure R&D seems to be coming from private companies that are able to sustain losses for long periods of time until a significant breakthrough is achieved (e.g. SpaceX, OpenAI, etc.).
Ah yes. The share buyback boogie man. If only companies couldn’t buy back shares then all that extra money would flow into research, except not. Shareholders would be demanding dividends.
What's missing from this explanation is that the corporate tax rate was also much higher, but R&D dramatically cut down profit that would be taxed and was taxed lower. So large corporations like Bell Labs and co would basically say "do we give the government X in taxes, or do we spend X on research?". They chose research, so we got the technology that powers our world.
That, combined with stock buybacks and the general take over of Friedman-economics resulted in a far more focused short term thinking and outsourcing research as much as possible due to uncertain horizon risks.
These days you're better off giving it to a university with strings attached. Sure, they might piss a bunch of it away, but when you account for the dollars on the subject you care about after taxes are leeched out it's still more efficient than building out research within the confines of a for-profit entity that gets taxed at such.
This is why we no longer have corporate research labs and damn near every university is bristling with BigCo funded stuff.
a) allowing share buy-backs might be good or bad. But it isn't good or bad unconditionally! The restrictions on the buyback policy should matter. Ideally, buybacks should make prices boring not create ultra thin books with hefty valuations that are cheaper to manipulate. But it seems the regulations around buybacks are in line with incentivizing growth and not stabilizing real prices.
b) to some extent putting uncertain/opaque research inside corporations is a defense against getting into regimes where it becomes easier to manipulate prices. I hadn't thought of it before, but if if important public companies become beholden to traded price and it becomes easy enough for large foreign entities to move markets, then it is simply a matter of "pricing" short term market punishment of a company for any policy you don't like. Yes, this might seem a bit far fetched, but remember that this kind of incremental worsening of outcomes is precisely what people say is hapenning via regulation and legal challenge in key industries.
Just some interesting thought legs spun off from the discussions here.
> I'm not seeing how you get from share buybacks to a shift in priorities in corporate research.
Share buybacks are just the new go-to thing to blame. Economics students (at least "development economics") are memorising this concept all over the globe, so you can expect it more and more.
I would agree the anti-monopoly action had far more to do with that.
Basically, if you you think you can leverage your R&D into maintaining your monopoly and extending it to other areas it makes sense if for nothing else to keep the smart people who might otherwise disrupt your monopoly connected to you.
But if you are going to get broken up, just take as much short term profits as soon as you can
New Deal-era regulations on financial flows made it painful tax-wise to remove cash from a company. So you either had to pay it as dividends, or you invest it in R&D, wages, or benefits for employees (this is why companies used to have very plush benefits even for lower level managers). When combined with pretty aggressive anti-trust, it also funneled cash into business expansion via conglomerates.
Companies were asset rich (which is the seam of valuable companies that private equity has been strip mining for 40 years, but even those are running out now).
Share buybacks are more symbolic that the Reagan era made it easy to take cash out of companies, which led to a race to the bottom of extracting as much cash as possible while leaving little for operations, wages, or expansion.
Ok, then why do they get affected by funding? The truth is, today there is not a scientist, artist, researcher or writer who is not driven by funding. The era for curiosity-driven science is was over a long time ago.
The direction of research or science is all driven by funding.
> Engineers design and build things on top of the discoveries of scientists
I agree with a lot in this post, but I think it's also worth mentioning how this is a two-way street. Practical considerations often drive theory research as much as the other way around.
I like to imagine that thermodynamics happened because industrial metallurgy and boiler design advanced to the point where people started asking "what are the fundamental constraints?"
There's a chance that it didn't actually happen that way, though.
edit: I also heard that Louis Pasteur did work for breweries, answering the question "Why do some batches come out nasty while most are fine, given the same inputs?"
There's something odd in this argument. If you come at it from a Canadian perspective Canada seriously spent on neural network computer science when almost no one else did (many in AI considered the entire thing discredited and impossible), now the (financial) gains from that are almost entirely in a foreign country.
The US science establishment was all about buying and utilizing Russian rocket engines until he-that-shall-not-be-named came along. SpaceX took the breakthroughs that existed in the US in things like control theory, which the same science establishment had failed to value appropriately.
It doesn't look like the science establishments of any country are actually successfully feeding their innovation machines, or have done so for decades. Switching a non functioning system off does at least allow it to be replaced by something that risks doing things when something comes back.
Of course many pure scientists will, legitimately, argue that innovation isn't the point in the first place, and that is a far more solid point, but real academic diversity has been so destroyed by the global consensus making peer review process that much of their progress has effectively stalled.
> The US science establishment was all about buying and utilizing Russian rocket engines until he-that-shall-not-be-named came along. SpaceX took the breakthroughs that existed in the US in things like control theory, which the same science establishment had failed to value appropriately.
I feel like you're confusing "science" and "engineering". SpaceX is fundamentally an engineering company, not a scientific one. Don't get me wrong, they've done impressive work in engineering innovation, but that's fundamentally different from scientific research. And as the article points out, engineering innovation from the likes of SpaceX is usually reliant on that foundational scientific innovation, which in turn is essentially useless without an engineering partner to realize scientific discoveries.
> It doesn't look like the science establishments of any country are actually successfully feeding their innovation machines, or have done so for decades.
Really? Is it just a coincidence that up until recently the US had some of the most robust scientific funding and was an unbeatable source of engineering innovation? For that matter, are there any real counterexamples where science research is non-existent but engineering excellence abounds?
"Seriously spent" where serious is less than the cost of a single bomber for the military. I forget what Geoffrey Hinton said it was, but it was an embarrassingly small pittance.
Military spending is largely economic dead weight, roughly the equivalent of handouts. And the end result is deterrence in a game of prisoners dilemma. Yet it is sacrosanct, and subject to ever increasing budgets for no gain.
military spending being dead weight is the most ridiculous statement I've heard in a long time. Do you know nothing about US, British, and Dutch history?
The main way the US, UK, and the Netherlands historically became rich was through maritime trade. Maritime trade was basically only possible due to those countries' military expenditures on having strong navies. I know the media makes a big focus on US special forces and other things, but the US Navy is basically the most important and foundational part of all of the US military power. The US and Allies were always interested in maintaining freedom of navigation and trade at the seas.
Just take a look at how much money was lost due to trade shipping costs due to the Houthis in Yemen. Consider that today it's cheaper than ever to ship things, and even today, it was so terrible. Shipping by land is terrible. The only historically economically feasible way to do maritime trade has been with Navies to provide protection from pirates.
That's purely an issue of living next to the USA and Canada's system not rewarding risktakers/startups like the USA does. If you have the next billion dollar idea would you rather get rich in Canada or the USA?
I don't really understand how you come to the conclusion that the current system is non-functioning. There are tons of examples of it working (I even have members of my family who took their research to make products) and for the rocket example experts didn't think it was literally impossible, just not cost effective with the current technology (e.g. the space shuttle was reusable but very expensive). I don't think that's some huge failure given SpaceX had a lot of launch failures and went nearly bankrupt before the first launch (and even after that it was a long road to profitability, I thought it took 20 years to get to an operating profit). This is also ignoring how SpaceX is operating within the current system also.
It's not perfect but if you replace the system you're gonna find the same sorts or errors since it's impossible to accurately guess future value of uncertain engineering projects.
There are successes in Canada, surely Google’s presence there counts for something. It’s an huge multinational corporation, some big AI units are in London and Toronto. Among startups in AI, Ideogram. Public funding in the arts in Canada is also really good, and it’s not an accident Ideogram is there and not here.
50% of VC is biotech, HistoSonics is on the front page of HN, and it was a PhD project turned into a huge company with deep, liquid capital markets. BBC doesn’t really write about that but the venture system that made HistoSonics was super sophisticated, full of very bright people willing to take huge risks, and while the inventor isn’t going to be a billionaire, she is still there inventing stuff, and she’s not going to be poor either.
Nobody is asking economists in the article any questions. How does R&D show up as something measurable? - thats really the meaning of financial we care about in this case, as opposed to economic or humanistic, where it’s pretty obvious that Canada, Russia, and the US, among other smaller countries like Israel and Finland, benefit from R&D more than financially, compared to say the UAE, which has spent relatively much more but yielded far less. A very attractive measure, to me, is the productivity of sectors that are basically indexes on a nation’s geography, like real estate, agriculture and minerals, versus innovations-driven sectors like healthcare, education and technology. In relative terms, given how great the weather is and how much oil there is, California and British Columbia (for EXAMPLE) swing way above their weight, no?
Instead of asking why Canada is doing this or that - Canada is doing quite well - we should be looking at South Korea.
Its not that spacex did anything novel really. People act like the shuttle died when it has been continually developed to this day. The shuttle always had a dual use as a commercial and military technology. The commercial activity was not economically viable. The military activity was and remains an important capability. That is why the shuttle still flies. Only it is called the x37b and does not require the complexity of sending humans into space.
>Engineers design and build things on top of the discoveries of scientists.
In the last 80 or so years, this has been the case, but I don't think it's historically the norm. It just so happens that through whatever accident of scientific history, we were set up perfectly for a series of discoveries in basic theory that lent themselves well to immediate implementation and productization. We had a "science cycle" to match the business cycle that looked like this: Come up with a theory -> works? (yes: proceed, no: start again) -> publicize result -> collect huge sums of money -> plow that into new experiments -> find a problem with current theory -> start again. I don't think there is much disagreement that this cycle has slowed down considerably over the last 30-40 years.
Science by its nature is descriptive. As a discipline, it isn't actually geared towards discovering maxima in a space of design possibilities. No scientist invented the automobile or the airplane or the steam engine. A more typical mode is that engineers demonstrate that something is possible, and scientists recapitulate/integrate it into theory.
> Countries that neglect science become dependent on those that don’t. U.S. post-WWII dominance came from basic science investments (OSRD, NSF, NIH, DOE labs). After WWII ended, the UK slashed science investment which allowed the U.S. to commercialize the British inventions made during the war.
> The Soviet Union’s collapse partly reflected failure to convert science into sustained innovation, during the same time that U.S. universities, startups and venture capital created Silicon Valley. Long-term military and economic advantage (nuclear weapons, GPS, AI) trace back to scientific research ecosystems.
The US has an extremely entrepreneurial culture, which is why Americans are so good at building innovative businesses. In the UK, money is seen as grubby and the class system has consistently placed barriers between those with ideas and those with money. Similarly, the Soviet Union struggled to make use of its innovators due to the strictures of central planning. Australia punches well above its weight in scientific research but is unwilling to engage in any economic activity other than digging rocks out of the ground and selling them to China.
So the idea that scientific research is a limiting factor in economic growth is not general; it's specific to the US and countries with that same entrepreneurial culture.
The UK has an extremely entrepreneurial culture as well, which is shown in the data (number of businesses registered, number of startups, both per capita), it ranks very highly, along with other indicators of innovation, it might not be as entrepreneurial as the USA, but globally it ranks very highly. The fact that you mention the Soviet Union and its central planned economy and the (outdated and stereotyped view of the) British class system almost like they are equivalent really undermines your point as well.
This seems quite adjacent to today's Nobel Prize announcement that sustained growth comes from understanding why an innovation works, so we can apply it in new domains.
Universities spend ~$109 billion a year on research. ~$60 billion of that $109 billion comes from the National Institutes for Health (NIH) for biomedical research, National Science Foundation (NSF) for basic science, Department of War (DoW), Department of Energy (DOE), for energy/physics/nuclear, DARPA, NASA.
Let's talk about the other $49B.
I read or heard someplace that at many universities tuition paid by students in the social sciences is effectively subsidizing the STEM fields, as the history department or psychology professors are unlikely to require huge investments in new buildings, specialized equipment, etc., yet they pay the same tuition fees as STEM majors. Families/students paying full freight at a private university are looking at undergraduate degrees that cost $250k-$400k all in.
That can't be the whole picture, as money also flows from rich donors, corporate partnerships of various types, and at some schools such as MIT licensing fees.
It doesn't seem like tuition can keep growing at the rates that it has to make up the shortfall from government research cuts, but what about the other areas?
> I read or heard someplace that at many universities tuition paid by students in the social sciences is effectively subsidizing the STEM fields
I'm very skeptical of this claim.
In fact up until a recent funding method change from the Trump Administration, most grant money was subject to "overhead"--a nebulous nonsensical accounting trick that allowed the university administration to get upwards of 60% of the dollars that are earmarked for grants. If you invent something, the school will take 70% of the revenue from the innovation. Much like VC, some big wins can power the school for years.
Actually, most highly productive research universities use the research as a prestige magnet and marketing tool to help grow endowments and keep up in the US News college rankings.
I would be great if the funding weren't so opaque. We may be able to find accounting info for the public univeristies. I would bet money that, Liberal arts tuition likely goes into administration, endowments, and campus improvements for student life (better food in the dining halls...)
If you want new disease treatments and cures, you need to fund applied science (using the aforementioned definitions). Follow-on compounds can almost be engineered, but finding novel targets and coming up with candidates is a research problem. And dealing with the side-effects that appear can flip back from engineering to science. The Ozempic class of compounds has done wonders driving research in obesity and (I think) addictive behaviours.
Bringing it to market requires money and management and luck. Many/most of the promising candidates fall out along the way.
When dealing with patents, public interest, and their consequences, Bell Labs should be treated separately imo. My vague recollection of the book The Idea Factory [1] and a brief search indicate that AT&T was always treated as a special case due to its status as a regulated monopoly. This status at least culminated in the 1956 Consent Decree [2], which required making all prior patents royalty-free and (as I read elsewhere) mandated that all future patents be licensed on reasonable terms. Given Bell Labs' well-known portfolio-including the transistor, laser, CCD, DSP, and fiber-optic-related patents, this shows a significant exception to how other companies might have innovated and monetized their innovations.
It feels like in the past 20-ish years, maybe longer, game-changing innovations have become rarer, making science lower ROI.
If that’s true (maybe it’s not? all I have is vibes!), if it is indeed true, and science is becoming less able to convert into invention- it stands to reason that at some point it becomes rational for a country to direct resources elsewhere. Political will becomes strained, and politicians decide it’ll be popular to defund and discourage science.
Used to be you could throw a handful of metal scrap into a vacuum chamber, hook it up to high voltage and get a handful of patents right off the bat. That ship has long sailed
The science research today in most universities are not driven by curiosity at all. It is most funding drive and in a lot of cases researchers has even less freedoms than an industrial professionals.
TBH, it makes sense for large incumbents to sell out science on the altar of politics because they are now will profit more from rent seeking than from innovation.
Then fund science. Just because the government has done it previously doesn't mean it always has to be like that forever.
Maybe if science depended on the average Joe actually having a living wage, enough to donate some directly to science, the incentive structures of our society would become more healthy than they currently are.
Rich people, worrying about rich people jobs and outcomes, is getting a little tiresome. We don't care about your women's studies "research" grants. Maybe something will actually be done about income inequality, if you want to save the things you actually care about. Until then, let it burn; a lot of us will barely notice the difference.
Not only that, but science was largely a privately-funded industry until a few decades ago, and many would argue governments do a bad job of funding science because a lot of nonsense gets wrapped up in it. It's frustrating because people will whole-heartedly claim science research needs more funding, and then hand the funding over to John Money so he can publish what happens when you sexually abuse children (spoiler: they committed suicide).
I don't think a lot of the people defending government backed research understand everything they're defending
80 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 93.1 ms ] threadIf you love control and have control, why would you want to create fertile ground for startups?
(This was meant as devil's advocate, not my personal point of view).
I'm not seeing how you get from share buybacks to a shift in priorities in corporate research. If there's a fundamental reason why it can't be done now how it was before the 80's it's not that.
seems to me investing in your own company:
before: use funds actively for research and development
after: use funds passively to "invest" in your company by buying stock
seems like that old parable where someone buries their investment.
EDIT: parable of the talents
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Talents
The driver behind the buybacks was also the motive to shift from research and manufacturing and into profits.
The massive failure is in inaccurately quantifying the true value of these labs.
Further more, while some might argue that corporate R&D is better due to being closer to the problem but it is private research and not shared with the world like university research is.
That, combined with stock buybacks and the general take over of Friedman-economics resulted in a far more focused short term thinking and outsourcing research as much as possible due to uncertain horizon risks.
These days you're better off giving it to a university with strings attached. Sure, they might piss a bunch of it away, but when you account for the dollars on the subject you care about after taxes are leeched out it's still more efficient than building out research within the confines of a for-profit entity that gets taxed at such.
This is why we no longer have corporate research labs and damn near every university is bristling with BigCo funded stuff.
a) allowing share buy-backs might be good or bad. But it isn't good or bad unconditionally! The restrictions on the buyback policy should matter. Ideally, buybacks should make prices boring not create ultra thin books with hefty valuations that are cheaper to manipulate. But it seems the regulations around buybacks are in line with incentivizing growth and not stabilizing real prices.
b) to some extent putting uncertain/opaque research inside corporations is a defense against getting into regimes where it becomes easier to manipulate prices. I hadn't thought of it before, but if if important public companies become beholden to traded price and it becomes easy enough for large foreign entities to move markets, then it is simply a matter of "pricing" short term market punishment of a company for any policy you don't like. Yes, this might seem a bit far fetched, but remember that this kind of incremental worsening of outcomes is precisely what people say is hapenning via regulation and legal challenge in key industries.
Just some interesting thought legs spun off from the discussions here.
Share buybacks are just the new go-to thing to blame. Economics students (at least "development economics") are memorising this concept all over the globe, so you can expect it more and more.
Basically, if you you think you can leverage your R&D into maintaining your monopoly and extending it to other areas it makes sense if for nothing else to keep the smart people who might otherwise disrupt your monopoly connected to you.
But if you are going to get broken up, just take as much short term profits as soon as you can
Companies were asset rich (which is the seam of valuable companies that private equity has been strip mining for 40 years, but even those are running out now).
Share buybacks are more symbolic that the Reagan era made it easy to take cash out of companies, which led to a race to the bottom of extracting as much cash as possible while leaving little for operations, wages, or expansion.
1. Re-invest profits in R&D. Benefit to shareholder: potentially grow the value of their shares dramatically.
2. Make a dividend. Benefit to shareholder: cash that they can re-invest or use, LESS capital gains tax.
Ending stock buybacks creates another option:
3. Buyback stock. Benefit to shareholder: increased share value, and they can control when it is realized.
If there are boards that believe (3) > (1) > (2), then allowing stock buybacks will result in those companies shifting R&D investment into buybacks.
Ok, then why do they get affected by funding? The truth is, today there is not a scientist, artist, researcher or writer who is not driven by funding. The era for curiosity-driven science is was over a long time ago.
The direction of research or science is all driven by funding.
I agree with a lot in this post, but I think it's also worth mentioning how this is a two-way street. Practical considerations often drive theory research as much as the other way around.
There's a chance that it didn't actually happen that way, though.
edit: I also heard that Louis Pasteur did work for breweries, answering the question "Why do some batches come out nasty while most are fine, given the same inputs?"
The US science establishment was all about buying and utilizing Russian rocket engines until he-that-shall-not-be-named came along. SpaceX took the breakthroughs that existed in the US in things like control theory, which the same science establishment had failed to value appropriately.
It doesn't look like the science establishments of any country are actually successfully feeding their innovation machines, or have done so for decades. Switching a non functioning system off does at least allow it to be replaced by something that risks doing things when something comes back.
Of course many pure scientists will, legitimately, argue that innovation isn't the point in the first place, and that is a far more solid point, but real academic diversity has been so destroyed by the global consensus making peer review process that much of their progress has effectively stalled.
I feel like you're confusing "science" and "engineering". SpaceX is fundamentally an engineering company, not a scientific one. Don't get me wrong, they've done impressive work in engineering innovation, but that's fundamentally different from scientific research. And as the article points out, engineering innovation from the likes of SpaceX is usually reliant on that foundational scientific innovation, which in turn is essentially useless without an engineering partner to realize scientific discoveries.
> It doesn't look like the science establishments of any country are actually successfully feeding their innovation machines, or have done so for decades.
Really? Is it just a coincidence that up until recently the US had some of the most robust scientific funding and was an unbeatable source of engineering innovation? For that matter, are there any real counterexamples where science research is non-existent but engineering excellence abounds?
Military spending is largely economic dead weight, roughly the equivalent of handouts. And the end result is deterrence in a game of prisoners dilemma. Yet it is sacrosanct, and subject to ever increasing budgets for no gain.
The main way the US, UK, and the Netherlands historically became rich was through maritime trade. Maritime trade was basically only possible due to those countries' military expenditures on having strong navies. I know the media makes a big focus on US special forces and other things, but the US Navy is basically the most important and foundational part of all of the US military power. The US and Allies were always interested in maintaining freedom of navigation and trade at the seas.
Just take a look at how much money was lost due to trade shipping costs due to the Houthis in Yemen. Consider that today it's cheaper than ever to ship things, and even today, it was so terrible. Shipping by land is terrible. The only historically economically feasible way to do maritime trade has been with Navies to provide protection from pirates.
The problem is that in Canada we're willing to invest a little for a long time. But we're not willing to make big bets.
You can raise far more capital in the US than in Canada. So naturally large rewards come to those who are willing to make large bets.
It's not perfect but if you replace the system you're gonna find the same sorts or errors since it's impossible to accurately guess future value of uncertain engineering projects.
Who are you talking about? It’s childish
50% of VC is biotech, HistoSonics is on the front page of HN, and it was a PhD project turned into a huge company with deep, liquid capital markets. BBC doesn’t really write about that but the venture system that made HistoSonics was super sophisticated, full of very bright people willing to take huge risks, and while the inventor isn’t going to be a billionaire, she is still there inventing stuff, and she’s not going to be poor either.
Nobody is asking economists in the article any questions. How does R&D show up as something measurable? - thats really the meaning of financial we care about in this case, as opposed to economic or humanistic, where it’s pretty obvious that Canada, Russia, and the US, among other smaller countries like Israel and Finland, benefit from R&D more than financially, compared to say the UAE, which has spent relatively much more but yielded far less. A very attractive measure, to me, is the productivity of sectors that are basically indexes on a nation’s geography, like real estate, agriculture and minerals, versus innovations-driven sectors like healthcare, education and technology. In relative terms, given how great the weather is and how much oil there is, California and British Columbia (for EXAMPLE) swing way above their weight, no?
Instead of asking why Canada is doing this or that - Canada is doing quite well - we should be looking at South Korea.
In the last 80 or so years, this has been the case, but I don't think it's historically the norm. It just so happens that through whatever accident of scientific history, we were set up perfectly for a series of discoveries in basic theory that lent themselves well to immediate implementation and productization. We had a "science cycle" to match the business cycle that looked like this: Come up with a theory -> works? (yes: proceed, no: start again) -> publicize result -> collect huge sums of money -> plow that into new experiments -> find a problem with current theory -> start again. I don't think there is much disagreement that this cycle has slowed down considerably over the last 30-40 years.
Science by its nature is descriptive. As a discipline, it isn't actually geared towards discovering maxima in a space of design possibilities. No scientist invented the automobile or the airplane or the steam engine. A more typical mode is that engineers demonstrate that something is possible, and scientists recapitulate/integrate it into theory.
> The Soviet Union’s collapse partly reflected failure to convert science into sustained innovation, during the same time that U.S. universities, startups and venture capital created Silicon Valley. Long-term military and economic advantage (nuclear weapons, GPS, AI) trace back to scientific research ecosystems.
The US has an extremely entrepreneurial culture, which is why Americans are so good at building innovative businesses. In the UK, money is seen as grubby and the class system has consistently placed barriers between those with ideas and those with money. Similarly, the Soviet Union struggled to make use of its innovators due to the strictures of central planning. Australia punches well above its weight in scientific research but is unwilling to engage in any economic activity other than digging rocks out of the ground and selling them to China.
So the idea that scientific research is a limiting factor in economic growth is not general; it's specific to the US and countries with that same entrepreneurial culture.
Let's talk about the other $49B.
I read or heard someplace that at many universities tuition paid by students in the social sciences is effectively subsidizing the STEM fields, as the history department or psychology professors are unlikely to require huge investments in new buildings, specialized equipment, etc., yet they pay the same tuition fees as STEM majors. Families/students paying full freight at a private university are looking at undergraduate degrees that cost $250k-$400k all in.
That can't be the whole picture, as money also flows from rich donors, corporate partnerships of various types, and at some schools such as MIT licensing fees.
It doesn't seem like tuition can keep growing at the rates that it has to make up the shortfall from government research cuts, but what about the other areas?
I'm very skeptical of this claim.
In fact up until a recent funding method change from the Trump Administration, most grant money was subject to "overhead"--a nebulous nonsensical accounting trick that allowed the university administration to get upwards of 60% of the dollars that are earmarked for grants. If you invent something, the school will take 70% of the revenue from the innovation. Much like VC, some big wins can power the school for years.
Actually, most highly productive research universities use the research as a prestige magnet and marketing tool to help grow endowments and keep up in the US News college rankings.
I would be great if the funding weren't so opaque. We may be able to find accounting info for the public univeristies. I would bet money that, Liberal arts tuition likely goes into administration, endowments, and campus improvements for student life (better food in the dining halls...)
Bringing it to market requires money and management and luck. Many/most of the promising candidates fall out along the way.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Idea_Factory
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_System#1956_Consent_Decre...
If that’s true (maybe it’s not? all I have is vibes!), if it is indeed true, and science is becoming less able to convert into invention- it stands to reason that at some point it becomes rational for a country to direct resources elsewhere. Political will becomes strained, and politicians decide it’ll be popular to defund and discourage science.
And maybe that is how the US got here.
... followed by lots more words that don't support this premise.
Maybe if science depended on the average Joe actually having a living wage, enough to donate some directly to science, the incentive structures of our society would become more healthy than they currently are.
Rich people, worrying about rich people jobs and outcomes, is getting a little tiresome. We don't care about your women's studies "research" grants. Maybe something will actually be done about income inequality, if you want to save the things you actually care about. Until then, let it burn; a lot of us will barely notice the difference.
I don't think a lot of the people defending government backed research understand everything they're defending