StageConnect is a connection to transmit 32 uncompressed audio-channels via a single XLR cable. StageConnect is based on A2B, the Automotive Audio Bus (A2B).
As someone who has been using behringer X/m32 products for nearly 2 decades now (hard to believe it's been that long!) and as someone who's done a lot of high and low end live audio work this is pretty cool. You don't often see mfgrs being so open about transport protocols or the specs are locked behind expensive paywalls and hardware to mess with them isn't remotely affordable.
I am curious how the pictured A2B board interfaces with the X/M32 board. If that's an AES50 implementation then maybe there's the possibility someone could roll up an AES50 router. That could be cool.
Why would you choose XLR as a connector for an application like this? Why choose one of the most common connectors you’re likely to see in an environment where someone will be mixing audio for a completely incompatible application? Hope the devices can handle accidental 48V phantom power without damage.
The audio world has history here. A simple TSR audio jack can be used for either stereo or balanced audio, headphone or mic or (multiple) line levels, hi-Z instruments, two incompatible MIDI (digital) connectors, multiple incompatible foot controller connectors, etc.
Nice to see that the parent Philippines holding company (Music Tribe) which went on a massive acquisition spree and bought a bunch of specialized audio companies still allows things to be free & open sourced.
(Though just read up that the CEO/Founder of Music Tribe is Uli Behringer)
Other digital Audio connection protocols: Toslink, AES50, AES67 (Ravenna), Dante, AVB, AES10 (MADI). Then for stage connection basically every mixer manufacture has their own protocol with Allen Heaths SLink, Soundcraft’s Ultranet/SI Link, Yamaha’s TWINLANe and YGDAI, Roland’s REAC, Avid’s AVB-based Stage 64, and DiGiCo’s Optocore/SD-Rack links...
Most of them use standard CAT cables for this since that is what has been made for the transmission of network data for reasonably long distances. You can replace the RJ-45 plugs with Ethercon connectors if you need it extra rugged and reliable.
Ravenna, AVB and MADI are already existing, open standards that do even more, but I guess they are too expensive because of the ultra low latency requirements and FPGAs involved.
The use of an specialized automotive audio bus IC is interesting and probably gets the cost down, but within a car cable lengths are rarely comparable to what would happen in a concert venue. According to Behringer there is a 15m max cable distance per spec. That is.. too low for practise. Maybe for a small rehearsal room or so, but if you go from a front of house mixer to the stage 15m is nothing, especially if you can't run it the direct way.
I agree that 15m is somewhat short, but I think this is intended to offer a lower cost offering, but be an alternative the the other networks they already support.
I for one am eager for audio networking standards to become more accessible. My biggest hopes would probably have been for a control plane protocol for AES67 to gain critical mass and force Dante and Ravenna to support it, but in the mean time this could be a nice alternative for some use cases as well.
Behringer is a polarizing company but they revolutionized the electronic music instrument market. I have three of their synths and I'm happy with the purchases.
They brought products that, while not top quality, had decent quality for an unbeatable price. I'm not sure their gear is the best for traveling musicians, but is perfect for the home.
Disclaimer: long-time musical instrument fan boy and designer, developer, with some experience in the industry working with a couple of well-known brands.
Behringer did what was there, sitting, ripe for picking: they made musical instruments standard (through copying) and they made them cheap - vital factors that musicians require in order to have a decent instrument/setup/workstation/etc.
Behringer revealed the huge situation with the musical-instrument business - it is very, very hard to be successful without pushing the expense on the end-user. Synths which might cost ~$180 to build are sold for ~$1800, for a reason: there are a lot of mouths to feed, metaphorically speaking.
And then, there is the brick and mortar factor - which is a massive thing, even still today, and I mean massive inasmuch as anyone paying rent so you can have a place to walk in and demo an instrument, is going to want to get that rent paid, too. And yes, there are still brick and mortar businesses around - barely. Internet has eaten everyone’s margins; but there are still hard core musician markets where an in-store demo is preferred.
So, Behringers machinations have played very well into that formula. Cheaper gear means better distribution; Behringer is bringing life back to some brick and mortar shops. I won’t mention names, but if you’re reading this and understanding it, you probably know where.
And let’s address the ‘cheap’ as in $ versus ‘cheap’ as in fragility. Behringer gear is actually kind of robust. They’ve put energy into making devices that Just Plain Work™. And since they offer value for money, why not get two or three of those “<mixers><eurorack modules><guitars pedals>&etc”.. might as well, “since I’m in the shop anyway”.
This doesn’t mean they don’t deserve some suspicion for the shenanigans, but when you see a teenager learning music get his first working home rig set up, and its a fair bit of Behringer gear, you will see the winning equation.
That is the start of a life-long passion for music, one hopes, and who knows what the other manufacturers of musical instruments will do, to respond to those shenanigans.
I never understood the Behringer hate of the "Pro Audio" community; apparently there are many riders (requirement documents for live shows) which state "No Behringer".
I got a Behringer WING a couple of years ago, and I couldn't be happier for my home studio: Excellent connection with Midas stage boxes who have (at least for my requirements) great pre-amps, you can basically route everything, it's kind of intuitive, the possibilities are endless, it's at the same time a 32-channel USB Audio Interface which works great with Logic, I can even live-stream multi channel audio to my Mac in the other room to Logic using the DANTE card, it has easy live recording with SD cards, remote control via iPad and even 3rd party apps with APIs, etc. etc. etc. … And they just released a rack and smaller version of it, but didn't cut on the features.
As we say in Germany, maybe it's some kind of "What the farmer doesn't know, he won't eat" syndrome. From what I know and use, I am a big fan of Behringer, and especially the WING.
It's not about the cloning but the quality control. For years Behringer didn't make any synths, just outboard - processing modules like compressors, gates/limiters, feedback managers, effects, small mixers and so on. These were original designs rather than clones of anything. The main attraction was that they were very cheap compared to the competition; sound-wise they were mediocre except for maybe their Composer compressor which was sorta good. The cheap aspect made them quite popular with aspiring musicians, especially electronic ones. Reliability was not too big of an issue because if a Behringer unit in your rack stopped working you could afford to just replace it. But they were absolutely not up to the rigors of commercial use, lacking consistency and reliability.
I like the company in a general way because I'm a big believer in accessibility to technology for entry-level people, and innovating on price is as valid as any other area (and they have innovated in many technical areas since). There are a lot of rent seekers in the pro audio industry and Behringer found a niche in the market where they had no direct competition. After building a solid commercial foundation they rolled the profits back into other areas, from cloning classic synths and guitar pedals to acquiring high quality live sound vendors like Midas. Quality-wise, their products are now really solid.
These news are of course good, but they sure bring up conflicting feelings in me. I mean, they should open source just about anything, seeing how they have unapologetically used other peoples designs as “inspiration” for their gear for decades for their own benefit. Sure, it has resulted in a lot of more affordable gear (I mean, super savings on development costs) and I really appreciate that, but it’s also at a cost. Innovators in the business get less business when there are cheaper devices “inspired” by theirs on the market, resulting in less funding for future innovations to inspire future Behringer gear. Then, of course, the whole Behringer vs Peter Kirn thing was just something that has left a permanent distaste in my mouth whenever I hear or see the name Behringer.
But I get it. Like someone commented here, the do seem like a sort of Robin Hood in the music gear world (although its not always just products from big companies that “inspire” Behringer products), making these expensive pieces of gear much more approachable for enthusiasts on a budget. Approachability is good and I love the idea of it. I just really wish it didn’t have to be at someone else's expense.
Please be aware that this is not a first-party open source release of a previously secret internal spec/implementation, but rather the result of an impressive reverse-engineering effort by Christian Nöding, whose videos about this project have been posted on here as well. Still, minor kudos to Behringer for giving the official permission and sharing some internals to make this possible.
19 comments
[ 4.4 ms ] story [ 46.3 ms ] threadI am curious how the pictured A2B board interfaces with the X/M32 board. If that's an AES50 implementation then maybe there's the possibility someone could roll up an AES50 router. That could be cool.
The audio world has history here. A simple TSR audio jack can be used for either stereo or balanced audio, headphone or mic or (multiple) line levels, hi-Z instruments, two incompatible MIDI (digital) connectors, multiple incompatible foot controller connectors, etc.
(Though just read up that the CEO/Founder of Music Tribe is Uli Behringer)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Music_Tribe
Most of them use standard CAT cables for this since that is what has been made for the transmission of network data for reasonably long distances. You can replace the RJ-45 plugs with Ethercon connectors if you need it extra rugged and reliable.
Ravenna, AVB and MADI are already existing, open standards that do even more, but I guess they are too expensive because of the ultra low latency requirements and FPGAs involved.
The use of an specialized automotive audio bus IC is interesting and probably gets the cost down, but within a car cable lengths are rarely comparable to what would happen in a concert venue. According to Behringer there is a 15m max cable distance per spec. That is.. too low for practise. Maybe for a small rehearsal room or so, but if you go from a front of house mixer to the stage 15m is nothing, especially if you can't run it the direct way.
Nice of them opening it up still.
I for one am eager for audio networking standards to become more accessible. My biggest hopes would probably have been for a control plane protocol for AES67 to gain critical mass and force Dante and Ravenna to support it, but in the mean time this could be a nice alternative for some use cases as well.
They brought products that, while not top quality, had decent quality for an unbeatable price. I'm not sure their gear is the best for traveling musicians, but is perfect for the home.
Disclaimer: long-time musical instrument fan boy and designer, developer, with some experience in the industry working with a couple of well-known brands.
Behringer did what was there, sitting, ripe for picking: they made musical instruments standard (through copying) and they made them cheap - vital factors that musicians require in order to have a decent instrument/setup/workstation/etc.
Behringer revealed the huge situation with the musical-instrument business - it is very, very hard to be successful without pushing the expense on the end-user. Synths which might cost ~$180 to build are sold for ~$1800, for a reason: there are a lot of mouths to feed, metaphorically speaking.
And then, there is the brick and mortar factor - which is a massive thing, even still today, and I mean massive inasmuch as anyone paying rent so you can have a place to walk in and demo an instrument, is going to want to get that rent paid, too. And yes, there are still brick and mortar businesses around - barely. Internet has eaten everyone’s margins; but there are still hard core musician markets where an in-store demo is preferred.
So, Behringers machinations have played very well into that formula. Cheaper gear means better distribution; Behringer is bringing life back to some brick and mortar shops. I won’t mention names, but if you’re reading this and understanding it, you probably know where.
And let’s address the ‘cheap’ as in $ versus ‘cheap’ as in fragility. Behringer gear is actually kind of robust. They’ve put energy into making devices that Just Plain Work™. And since they offer value for money, why not get two or three of those “<mixers><eurorack modules><guitars pedals>&etc”.. might as well, “since I’m in the shop anyway”.
This doesn’t mean they don’t deserve some suspicion for the shenanigans, but when you see a teenager learning music get his first working home rig set up, and its a fair bit of Behringer gear, you will see the winning equation.
That is the start of a life-long passion for music, one hopes, and who knows what the other manufacturers of musical instruments will do, to respond to those shenanigans.
I got a Behringer WING a couple of years ago, and I couldn't be happier for my home studio: Excellent connection with Midas stage boxes who have (at least for my requirements) great pre-amps, you can basically route everything, it's kind of intuitive, the possibilities are endless, it's at the same time a 32-channel USB Audio Interface which works great with Logic, I can even live-stream multi channel audio to my Mac in the other room to Logic using the DANTE card, it has easy live recording with SD cards, remote control via iPad and even 3rd party apps with APIs, etc. etc. etc. … And they just released a rack and smaller version of it, but didn't cut on the features.
As we say in Germany, maybe it's some kind of "What the farmer doesn't know, he won't eat" syndrome. From what I know and use, I am a big fan of Behringer, and especially the WING.
I like the company in a general way because I'm a big believer in accessibility to technology for entry-level people, and innovating on price is as valid as any other area (and they have innovated in many technical areas since). There are a lot of rent seekers in the pro audio industry and Behringer found a niche in the market where they had no direct competition. After building a solid commercial foundation they rolled the profits back into other areas, from cloning classic synths and guitar pedals to acquiring high quality live sound vendors like Midas. Quality-wise, their products are now really solid.
But I get it. Like someone commented here, the do seem like a sort of Robin Hood in the music gear world (although its not always just products from big companies that “inspire” Behringer products), making these expensive pieces of gear much more approachable for enthusiasts on a budget. Approachability is good and I love the idea of it. I just really wish it didn’t have to be at someone else's expense.
Uh oh.