In principle, having road charge be a combination of mileage and axle weight makes an incredible amount of sense - it taxes the factors which contribute to road wear.
Unfortunately, these proposals all seem to end up at "let the government location track your vehicle at all times", which is a privacy disaster - a disaster even worse than the current widespread use of automatic license plate readers. Unless such conditions are removed these programs are gross curtailments of freedom which should be opposed.
This makes no sense, this should be combined w/ the weight of the vehicle. Also, what about people who live in rural areas and do school runs or work further.
Imagine the following: "Sorry matey, we can visit granddad and grandma this xmas because we would "exceed our quota" and had to pay a lot of money!"
The title of this article is misleading. The proposal is to charge by distance, since electric cars mean gas taxes don’t work anymore. That is the problem they are looking to solve.
It would be helpful if those who are opposed to this solution propose their own which addresses this specific problem.
I can think of a couple others, neither of which are great:
1. All freeways become toll roads.
2. Increase the gas tax even more, basically explicitly subsidizing electric vehicles.
Monitoring mileage will open up whole new areas of business, from remote monitoring devices on the car's computer with network connectivity to human/manual car inspection. If this goes through it could be a good opportunity for some high-tech businesses. The iot angle would be interesting.
The key question I see here is: how would a vehicle be tracked?
There are two options:
1. A dongle with GPS, mobile connectivity and some other features would be installed to all vehicles. This makes it easy to implement the system, but would be a logistical nightmare.
2. The government could receive information directly from the manufacturers, but that a) can be a privacy nightmare, b) would work only on cars manufactured after 2016 or so, and c) is insanely complex to implement, due to differences and incompleteness of various manufacturer's API implementations (source: I worked on one such system).
One solution that comes to mind is to use the same technology that already exists for traffic violations: when a vehicle enters or leaves the motorway it would get its licence plate scanned, and a fee would be applied to that vehicle's account. The owner can then be charged in a number of different ways - immediately, or periodically, or after a certain threshold was reached - whichever is the most practical.
Fuel duty works out at about 5p/mile. Slightly more for thirstier vehicles, slightly less for lighter vehicles.
There is zero need to implement anything for petrol or diesel vehicles, which nicely eliminates the "pre-2016" problem (How many 10 year old electric vehicles are there? Not enough to worry about). I'd be inclined to provide a government API, and require the manufacturers to provide the data in a specified format. Make it part of type approval for use on the UK roads.
Not impossible, nor should a VIN + Mileage number be particularly risky for privacy concerns - the number should be pushed regularly, to prevent wind-back tricks.
15p/mile has got to be a joke though. That'd be the equivalent of setting fuel duty to £1.50/litre - it would immediately shag what's left of the economy.
> I'd be inclined to provide a government API, and require the manufacturers to provide the data in a specified format. Make it part of type approval for use on the UK roads.
Knowing how this industry works, good luck making something like this a reality, especially in a single country. Even if the EU tried enforcing something like that (with the UK piggybacking on it), it is still a small portion of the market.
Sadly, this is not a technical problem, but a political one. That said, I agree with you, and we can always dream.
True, but that is a general mileage - it doesn't tell you where it was made. I.e. how much of it was made abroad, how much was on local roads and how much on motorways etc.
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[ 3.4 ms ] story [ 36.9 ms ] threadUnfortunately, these proposals all seem to end up at "let the government location track your vehicle at all times", which is a privacy disaster - a disaster even worse than the current widespread use of automatic license plate readers. Unless such conditions are removed these programs are gross curtailments of freedom which should be opposed.
It would be helpful if those who are opposed to this solution propose their own which addresses this specific problem.
I can think of a couple others, neither of which are great:
1. All freeways become toll roads. 2. Increase the gas tax even more, basically explicitly subsidizing electric vehicles.
There are two options:
1. A dongle with GPS, mobile connectivity and some other features would be installed to all vehicles. This makes it easy to implement the system, but would be a logistical nightmare.
2. The government could receive information directly from the manufacturers, but that a) can be a privacy nightmare, b) would work only on cars manufactured after 2016 or so, and c) is insanely complex to implement, due to differences and incompleteness of various manufacturer's API implementations (source: I worked on one such system).
One solution that comes to mind is to use the same technology that already exists for traffic violations: when a vehicle enters or leaves the motorway it would get its licence plate scanned, and a fee would be applied to that vehicle's account. The owner can then be charged in a number of different ways - immediately, or periodically, or after a certain threshold was reached - whichever is the most practical.
There is zero need to implement anything for petrol or diesel vehicles, which nicely eliminates the "pre-2016" problem (How many 10 year old electric vehicles are there? Not enough to worry about). I'd be inclined to provide a government API, and require the manufacturers to provide the data in a specified format. Make it part of type approval for use on the UK roads.
Not impossible, nor should a VIN + Mileage number be particularly risky for privacy concerns - the number should be pushed regularly, to prevent wind-back tricks.
15p/mile has got to be a joke though. That'd be the equivalent of setting fuel duty to £1.50/litre - it would immediately shag what's left of the economy.
Knowing how this industry works, good luck making something like this a reality, especially in a single country. Even if the EU tried enforcing something like that (with the UK piggybacking on it), it is still a small portion of the market.
Sadly, this is not a technical problem, but a political one. That said, I agree with you, and we can always dream.