I was unable to find the paper. I'm still wondering, if it is a cross-over experiment, as:
> The circles were in different positions at each room in the maze, but the bees still learned over varying amounts of time to fly toward the short flash of light associated with the sweet food.
Do not state, if the light suddenly changed in the rooms. If not, other factors might come into place.
All of this reinforces my belief that nearly everything is conscious and aware, we differ in a capabilities and resolution but we are all more similar than we are different.
This is also what upsets me most about habitat destruction (aka global warming). We're burning books (making species extinct) that we haven't even read yet.
I’m curious if this experiment actually tests for time perception at all or if it’s a very different effect that we attribute as being actual experience of time.
this is such an amazing discovery, with hundreds of thousands of insect species left to determine there time processing abilities, which of course could never be atributed to the basic ability to navigate, it is the work for so many indispensible scientific institutions to take on this essential groundbreaking work
When I think of insects, I see them as tiny microcontrollers. In my head bees have a little shift register to measure time.
While ants have control over each limb, they mostly move by rotating two tripods one at a time. It's like they turn on an output for three legs, turn off the output, and then turn on the output for the other three legs.
Ants can walk backward, though, so perhaps it is more like a half-bridge rectifier with multiple channels.
Professional nerds in silicon valley and beyond might consider whether they can help, and how.
My understanding from long conversations with a beekeeper who has lost millions of bees, including entire colonies remote from agricultural and residential pesticides and artificial colony technology (which are some of the hypothesized causes blamed) is there is a mix of a) pathogens, and b) global supply chain homogeny distributing the pathogens mixed into various agricultural products eg mulch and soil, and c) environmental factors to include possibly RF which have been observed to destroy previously healthy colonies very quickly and then also scramble or interfere with the colony division/expansion process where a queen starts over. To include in some cases the queens apparently getting lost and/or leading astray their entire swarm of minion bees during the fragile process of relocating. This getting lost is apparently a new puzzling phenomenon.
Anyway, it would be bad if large fragile ecosystems upon which many species including ours depend, were deprived of key pollinators. There is probably some very smart insightful person or team here on HN who could help and profit from helping on a global scale.
That's interesting, given that scientists don't even know what the "time" is. But if that study helps finding those answers, I guess it is just fine to continue the push.
There's this popular notion that humans are fundamentally different beings to everything else, which I believe is just a form of narcissism.
If intelligence is used to navigate the world, then it is derived FROM the world, and your role is to be able to use those facts in your mind to change the world.
I'm sure a wolf is as, or more, intelligent at surviving in the wild, with the tools it has, than your average suburban adult.
Wolves understand distance, time, sun-time light levels, resource economy, body-energy economy, they know prey behaviors, complex hunting tactics, the basics of sound transmission, they know about self security, seeking adequate shelter, they know the basics about fall damage and how that may relate to height/weight, they know how to step when running, they know momentum, etc
They absolutely do calculate a very very basic physics and animal psychology.
Because, essentially, beings know/are intelligent about the things related to their survival. They have to be, its their existence.
Therefore I speculate bees may know more about time than even this article suggests. And probably as well as sound transmission and perception and maybe even air pressure due to flying being such an important role for them. Maybe they also have a basic space-time vulnerability conception. They for sure have excellent home etiquette and social awareness.
Im sure having a tiny brain doesnt eliminate the basic physics processing capacity that all beings need, maybe it just makes it shallower.
Dr. Mark Powell: How do you know right from wrong?
Prot: Every being in the universe knows right from wrong, Mark.
Dr. Mark Powell: Suppose someone did do something wrong? Committed murder or rape, how would you punish them?
Prot: Let me tell you something, Mark. You humans, most of you, subscribe to this policy of eye for an eye, a life for a life. This is known through the universe for its stupidity. Even your Buddha and your Christ had quite a different vision but nobody's paid much attention to them not even the Buddhists or the Christians. You humans. Sometimes it's hard to imagine how you have made it this far.
I think it's a bit of a stretch to say flashing lights are a stimulus bees have never seen before. Branches, leaves etc swing in the wind and oscillate letting sunlight through at intervals this causing the perception of flashing lights.
There should be a name for the tendency to of humans to discount the depth and sophistication of the subjective experience of animals. From insects to primates, it is so prevalent.
I don't think we should be surprised by this. A creature that needs to operate its body in 3d environment, perform complex manipulations with objects, participate in social interactions, probably use some sort of planning to optimise pollen harvesting activities has very good chances to be acquainted with the concept of time in one way or another.
What is indeed fascinating is how scientists invent all these experiments
I started beekeeping with my first hive in April this year. I find it very fascinating. It has helped me control my emotions as you have to be calm around them. Knock on wood, I have not been stung yet (I always suit up when I open the hive). My hive is thriving, but I did not harvest any honey to make sure they make it through their first winter. I have been fighting small hive beetles but so far have not had any significant infestation of varroa mites.
24 comments
[ 3.0 ms ] story [ 81.3 ms ] thread> The circles were in different positions at each room in the maze, but the bees still learned over varying amounts of time to fly toward the short flash of light associated with the sweet food.
Do not state, if the light suddenly changed in the rooms. If not, other factors might come into place.
They can count https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21222227
Bees play https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33369572 https://www.science.org/content/article/are-these-bumble-bee...
All of this reinforces my belief that nearly everything is conscious and aware, we differ in a capabilities and resolution but we are all more similar than we are different.
Spider Cognition: How Tiny Brains Do Mighty Things https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46003146
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40466814
I’m curious if this experiment actually tests for time perception at all or if it’s a very different effect that we attribute as being actual experience of time.
We have no idea what other insects can do this or when they got the ability. Sounds more like a first in Scientists. (tongue somewhat in cheek)
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/xlGuBT5GT10
We’ve known about the early bird since Ben Franklin’s day.
While ants have control over each limb, they mostly move by rotating two tripods one at a time. It's like they turn on an output for three legs, turn off the output, and then turn on the output for the other three legs.
Ants can walk backward, though, so perhaps it is more like a half-bridge rectifier with multiple channels.
They're like little organic ICs.
https://youtu.be/qWsBZbnt_4A?si=3AcS7IdGT41gF598
Professional nerds in silicon valley and beyond might consider whether they can help, and how.
My understanding from long conversations with a beekeeper who has lost millions of bees, including entire colonies remote from agricultural and residential pesticides and artificial colony technology (which are some of the hypothesized causes blamed) is there is a mix of a) pathogens, and b) global supply chain homogeny distributing the pathogens mixed into various agricultural products eg mulch and soil, and c) environmental factors to include possibly RF which have been observed to destroy previously healthy colonies very quickly and then also scramble or interfere with the colony division/expansion process where a queen starts over. To include in some cases the queens apparently getting lost and/or leading astray their entire swarm of minion bees during the fragile process of relocating. This getting lost is apparently a new puzzling phenomenon.
Anyway, it would be bad if large fragile ecosystems upon which many species including ours depend, were deprived of key pollinators. There is probably some very smart insightful person or team here on HN who could help and profit from helping on a global scale.
Edit. Typos
There's this popular notion that humans are fundamentally different beings to everything else, which I believe is just a form of narcissism.
If intelligence is used to navigate the world, then it is derived FROM the world, and your role is to be able to use those facts in your mind to change the world.
I'm sure a wolf is as, or more, intelligent at surviving in the wild, with the tools it has, than your average suburban adult.
Wolves understand distance, time, sun-time light levels, resource economy, body-energy economy, they know prey behaviors, complex hunting tactics, the basics of sound transmission, they know about self security, seeking adequate shelter, they know the basics about fall damage and how that may relate to height/weight, they know how to step when running, they know momentum, etc
They absolutely do calculate a very very basic physics and animal psychology.
Because, essentially, beings know/are intelligent about the things related to their survival. They have to be, its their existence.
Therefore I speculate bees may know more about time than even this article suggests. And probably as well as sound transmission and perception and maybe even air pressure due to flying being such an important role for them. Maybe they also have a basic space-time vulnerability conception. They for sure have excellent home etiquette and social awareness.
Im sure having a tiny brain doesnt eliminate the basic physics processing capacity that all beings need, maybe it just makes it shallower.
Prot: Every being in the universe knows right from wrong, Mark.
Dr. Mark Powell: Suppose someone did do something wrong? Committed murder or rape, how would you punish them?
Prot: Let me tell you something, Mark. You humans, most of you, subscribe to this policy of eye for an eye, a life for a life. This is known through the universe for its stupidity. Even your Buddha and your Christ had quite a different vision but nobody's paid much attention to them not even the Buddhists or the Christians. You humans. Sometimes it's hard to imagine how you have made it this far.
What is indeed fascinating is how scientists invent all these experiments
It was such a rare event that "evolution" didn't explain her more than simply mechanical response to something uniquely different that day.
— former beekeeper