I still don't know why we needed a sequel... Couldn't they just keep working on the original game, which already worked really well and lots of people loved? I had similar feelings about kerbal space program, but at least there it's somewhat understandable, given the jank that crept in over time
The story is familiar: small team nails a niche, publisher scales expectations, sequel inherits AAA scope without AAA staff. Ten years later we call it "mismanagement", but really it's the same incentive loop that breaks most creative partnerships once success hits Excel.
> The engine lacked occlusion culling and relied on high-resolution shadow maps, causing “an innumerable number of draw calls”.
The engine does not lack or cause these things. The fact that the developers chose the HDRP pipeline for this game should be the most obvious dead bird in the entire coal mine. These games should be running on URP without question. We don't need advanced lighting systems in a top down city builder.
If we want an art workflow that allows artists to shit arbitrary content into the editor without thinking, we should probably reach for Unreal and flip on TAA like everyone else is doing.
> We don't need advanced lighting systems in a top down city builder.
You don't need a lot of things. The developers wanted the game to look better than the first, so went with HDRP because it claims to be a production ready pipeline that helps them achieve that.
But it was not and the developers did not have the time, or perhaps skill, to work around it's issues.
> we should probably reach for Unreal and flip on TAA like everyone else is doing.
First of all: "Just ask the entire studio to throw out all existing work and retrain staff to change their engine."
Second of all: Do you mean DLSS? TAA is an AA technique, it does not improve performance.
Third of all: Unreal? The engine notoriously ragged on as dragging down the performance of countless games in the last 2 years because it too has features that are easy to turn on and look good, but require skill and knowledge to fine-tune to be reasonably performant? That Unreal?
Bit of a tangent: Not sure if it's because I grew up with other games, but somehow the aesthetics of modern games just seems off to me. That being said, I didn't manage to get back into SimCity gameplay.
> The Paradox Mods platform will remain the only officially supported mod hub, so deep code mods akin to CS1’s may never return.
I've written a mod to CS2 and CS1 (granted not a big mods but few small ones), Paradox mod store doesn't limit you in depth of the code mods. What you are limited by is churn in the internals of the game engine, as most mods use monkey patching techniques that then break.
What I wished CS2 modding had some official way to monkey patch, so they could somehow try to detect incompatible monkey patching when people have 100s of mods installed. Suppose two mods modify WaterSystem, it would show the user both mods and locations they've attached at. It would help debug things down.
Many gamers blame original game devs for broken game even though it was fault of the mods they've installed. For us who knows programming, that is ridiculous because these mods are monkey patching at so deep level... but that is probably reason many games don't have official modding as it weighs down their reputation.
Yeah something strange is going on with Paradox lately. Enshittification shenanigans has gotten them too :( Same or similar disaster is in the making with Europa Universalis V and Surviving Mars Relaunched. So sad to see this happening to them.
> The Paradox Mods platform will remain the only officially supported mod hub, so deep code mods akin to CS1’s may never return.
As someone else pointed out, this is false. I have also created mods for both CS2/CS1 and I would even say it's the opposite. In my opinion, CS2 allows for even deeper code mods because they have mod tooling built right into the game unlike CS1. The host of the mods (Steam Workshop vs Paradox Mods) doesn't change anything related to mod capabilities.
> ...its long-time partner Colossal Order announced a quiet but monumental shift.
Ah yes, "quiet", like how it's been posted on every CS2 social media account, and blasted in every possible space of CS2. Haha Absolutely nothing "quiet" about it.
The funny thing is that CS1 probably wouldn't have been as successful had EA not dropped the ball on the SimCity franchise. There was a decade between SimCity 4 and SimCity (2013/5), and when it finally came out it was a completely underwhelming.
On the bright side, maybe another developer can pick up the reins and release the next generation's city builder game.
It does feel like they bet on Unity's High Definition Render Pipeline and it locked them into a specific way of development that was hard to escape from once it proved problematic.
City simulation games (Sim City, Factorio, etc.) are sort of a unique beast in that they have a ton of small scale detail that is animated and and dynamic.
The choice of engine here matters a lot, because engines are often highly optimized for specific assumptions and the assumptions of standard games (mostly static worlds with just a few dynamic entities - a platformer, a first-personal shooter) do not hold.
The studio taking this over should ensure they have some really good low level 3D devs guys on the team and a flexible engine.
I think that a home built engine could work in these cases, but only if you have the right guys for the job.
15 comments
[ 2.8 ms ] story [ 35.0 ms ] threadNow Skylines certainly uped the game game in graphics, but honestly I would pay good money for an updated Sim City 4 or ... Sim City 3000.
A city builder doesn't have to LOOK amazing to be great.
The engine does not lack or cause these things. The fact that the developers chose the HDRP pipeline for this game should be the most obvious dead bird in the entire coal mine. These games should be running on URP without question. We don't need advanced lighting systems in a top down city builder.
If we want an art workflow that allows artists to shit arbitrary content into the editor without thinking, we should probably reach for Unreal and flip on TAA like everyone else is doing.
You don't need a lot of things. The developers wanted the game to look better than the first, so went with HDRP because it claims to be a production ready pipeline that helps them achieve that.
But it was not and the developers did not have the time, or perhaps skill, to work around it's issues.
> we should probably reach for Unreal and flip on TAA like everyone else is doing.
First of all: "Just ask the entire studio to throw out all existing work and retrain staff to change their engine."
Second of all: Do you mean DLSS? TAA is an AA technique, it does not improve performance.
Third of all: Unreal? The engine notoriously ragged on as dragging down the performance of countless games in the last 2 years because it too has features that are easy to turn on and look good, but require skill and knowledge to fine-tune to be reasonably performant? That Unreal?
I've written a mod to CS2 and CS1 (granted not a big mods but few small ones), Paradox mod store doesn't limit you in depth of the code mods. What you are limited by is churn in the internals of the game engine, as most mods use monkey patching techniques that then break.
What I wished CS2 modding had some official way to monkey patch, so they could somehow try to detect incompatible monkey patching when people have 100s of mods installed. Suppose two mods modify WaterSystem, it would show the user both mods and locations they've attached at. It would help debug things down.
Many gamers blame original game devs for broken game even though it was fault of the mods they've installed. For us who knows programming, that is ridiculous because these mods are monkey patching at so deep level... but that is probably reason many games don't have official modding as it weighs down their reputation.
As someone else pointed out, this is false. I have also created mods for both CS2/CS1 and I would even say it's the opposite. In my opinion, CS2 allows for even deeper code mods because they have mod tooling built right into the game unlike CS1. The host of the mods (Steam Workshop vs Paradox Mods) doesn't change anything related to mod capabilities.
> ...its long-time partner Colossal Order announced a quiet but monumental shift.
Ah yes, "quiet", like how it's been posted on every CS2 social media account, and blasted in every possible space of CS2. Haha Absolutely nothing "quiet" about it.
On the bright side, maybe another developer can pick up the reins and release the next generation's city builder game.
City simulation games (Sim City, Factorio, etc.) are sort of a unique beast in that they have a ton of small scale detail that is animated and and dynamic.
The choice of engine here matters a lot, because engines are often highly optimized for specific assumptions and the assumptions of standard games (mostly static worlds with just a few dynamic entities - a platformer, a first-personal shooter) do not hold.
The studio taking this over should ensure they have some really good low level 3D devs guys on the team and a flexible engine.
I think that a home built engine could work in these cases, but only if you have the right guys for the job.