Giving your phone number is just as bad. I was buying stuff at World Market and they had big signs touting 20% off some things... but when you got the counter they told you didn't get that unless you coughed up your real working mobile number so you could receive some BS code.
Native phone apps give me the creeps. I assume the developer's are able to track me in various ways even without my giving permissions. Is that an unfounded fear on my part?
Can an app uniquely identify me if I don't give it
control over my phone number / nearby devices?
Can apps geo-locate me if the location permission has not been granted? (seems like they could just make a network request to their servers and use the IP address of the request for a rough idea).
I _really_ wish using the network was a permission (even if it was an "advanced mode" thing).
An annoying trend I've noticed is being asked for phone number or email at checkout (IRL). I bought a blood pressure meter a few days ago, and the salesman asked "what phone number should I put on the order?" Zero. Fuck off. I guess most people just answer out of reflex, or believe it's required to complete the purchase. It's creepy and irritating.
I switched to using PWAs for social media apps for similar reasons the author outlines. A pleasant, but somewhat unintended consequence is that I just use them a lot less because the experience is pretty bad. It makes me a little sad because I’ve always believed in the PWA dream, but the reality is that they’re bad because companies certainly don’t want to make an experience that rivals the app they really want you to download.
Expected, but just leads to reinforcing the idea that PWAs won’t ever be as good when every one people try from someone with a popular app is so awful.
100% agree. The level of tracking has gotten to absurd levels.
I needed a couple of grocery items and happened to be next to an Amazon Fresh. Cool, let’s try it! Went in, found everything I needed and went to self checkout. When it was time to pay, the machine wouldn’t accept Apple Pay. I ask an employee who helpfully informs me that I can pay with physical cards or my Amazon account.
I didn’t have my physical cards, nor wanted to do my Amazon account so I had to leave empty handed. Why don’t they accept Apple Pay? Because they can’t track you. If you use a physical card, they can likely link that card number to an Amazon account and thus attribute the purchase to a person. If you pay with contactless payment they get a one time token that they can’t tie to anyone.
This is dumb. Websites have many more ways to track you across websites than apps have to track you if you don’t explicitly give them unnecessary permissions.
"never hand your phone over the counter" - do people actually hand over their phones to random strangers? I'd never do that unless I really know the person
Blogger in question here, Taiwan is so utterly app dependent it's a pretty common thing at banks, hospitals etc. And the apps here have so atrocious UX that nobody bothers to teach you how to use them, staff are used to just doing things for e.g. old people that can't figure it out.
Generally agree with the sentiment, I basically only have banking apps, messaging apps, and a browser on my phone.
I am skeptical, though, of the price discrimination claims. If McDonald's decides that the right price of a Big Mac for me is $1 and for you $4, that creates an arbitrage opportunity. You can pay me $3, and I pocket $2. The result is that I buy more big macs, and they bump my price up. You buy less, and they take your price down. Now it just trades at the market rate it was before, but with more steps.
One possible future to look forward to is one where everyone is essentially forced to become a commodity player that exposes an API for your AI Agent to order food, book a rideshare, book a ticket, check flight status or whatever. I don't think they'll go willingly but the market may force their hand.
Just another confirmation that the majority of the IT industry depends on spying in order to be profitable and for developers to make a good living. It’s a disgrace really.
For all of these same reasons, I never signed up for the "member rewards" program at the local grocery store. I did read the terms and conditions once, when I needed a good laugh.
indeed, been preaching this kind of thing for ages. the main apps i keep on my mobile are my web browser, my comms apps (element, telegram and signal), and some other stuff from f-droid like retro music, ffupdater, newpipe, termux and stuff like that.
any social things i add as pwa through the browser.
not interested in any of those fast food or store apps. never selling ad-space (and privacy) on my own device to save $2 on a hamburger and some fries, and even if i did want them, chances are high they wouldn't run on my device anyway (feature not bug) lol
thankfully in my area, we have some good local places where you can order food just fine over their website. and if it didn't work over the website, i can simply do it the old-fashioned way, pick up the phone and say "i'd like to place an order for XYZ.."
> A company will know that you just got paid and so charge you just a bit more for your chicken nuggets than they do when you haven’t been paid in two weeks.
I know there's various data apps can collect. On iOS at least it seems like you have to grant permission for the app to access most of it. But how on Earth is this supposed to work? How does the app on my phone know if I just got paid?
Using the website doesn’t get you around these clauses either. It’s more like “don’t agree to terms you don’t read”. Chatgpt can help spot things like this without much effort now, but about every single business is going to have an arbitration clause.
This is all true. But I work in a company where the folks are actually nice guys. Lately we wanted more people to use the apps so we could block bots more aggressively on web because it is getting annoyingly expensive
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[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 50.2 ms ] threadI think it's also saving me money!
See ya, jerks.
Can an app uniquely identify me if I don't give it control over my phone number / nearby devices?
Can apps geo-locate me if the location permission has not been granted? (seems like they could just make a network request to their servers and use the IP address of the request for a rough idea).
I _really_ wish using the network was a permission (even if it was an "advanced mode" thing).
Expected, but just leads to reinforcing the idea that PWAs won’t ever be as good when every one people try from someone with a popular app is so awful.
I needed a couple of grocery items and happened to be next to an Amazon Fresh. Cool, let’s try it! Went in, found everything I needed and went to self checkout. When it was time to pay, the machine wouldn’t accept Apple Pay. I ask an employee who helpfully informs me that I can pay with physical cards or my Amazon account.
I didn’t have my physical cards, nor wanted to do my Amazon account so I had to leave empty handed. Why don’t they accept Apple Pay? Because they can’t track you. If you use a physical card, they can likely link that card number to an Amazon account and thus attribute the purchase to a person. If you pay with contactless payment they get a one time token that they can’t tie to anyone.
I am skeptical, though, of the price discrimination claims. If McDonald's decides that the right price of a Big Mac for me is $1 and for you $4, that creates an arbitrage opportunity. You can pay me $3, and I pocket $2. The result is that I buy more big macs, and they bump my price up. You buy less, and they take your price down. Now it just trades at the market rate it was before, but with more steps.
any social things i add as pwa through the browser.
not interested in any of those fast food or store apps. never selling ad-space (and privacy) on my own device to save $2 on a hamburger and some fries, and even if i did want them, chances are high they wouldn't run on my device anyway (feature not bug) lol
thankfully in my area, we have some good local places where you can order food just fine over their website. and if it didn't work over the website, i can simply do it the old-fashioned way, pick up the phone and say "i'd like to place an order for XYZ.."
I know there's various data apps can collect. On iOS at least it seems like you have to grant permission for the app to access most of it. But how on Earth is this supposed to work? How does the app on my phone know if I just got paid?
McDonalds doesn't hire them either. But, they will pay a bigger share of the arbitration fees than you do.
>they’d have to settle it out of court with a mediator that Disney hired
It would be a mediator hired by JAMS, a neutral 3rd party.