One is bootstrap. Do what you care about, and make a dent. If all you want is to be able to sustain a frugal life then this takes less effort, but not that much less than earning far more.
The other option is to join a (true) non profit. Some of them do seek growth, but some don't.
Kurt Vonnegut wrote that an aspiring writer should take any writing job he or she can get. A hack job will at least keep the creative wheels turning. I think the same applies to software development jobs. Take one where you can learn something, hone your chops. Doesn't have to be your passion, because turning an abstract conception into working software is intrinsically satisfying to someone who appreciates that particular form of magic.
Do your own projects on the side and keep your antenna peeled for other opportunities more in line with your own life goals.
You're saying the quiet part out loud. It's fine to believe such things, but you have to pretend not to, while using growth for your own interests: demanding more money for some work, or completing the work faster and using the free time for other purposes (entertainment, working another job, etc).
This seems like a very negative (and wrong?) perspective. Why do you think you’ll earn the same in 5 years? Do you think you’ve learned everything you can about software and business? Companies aren’t hiring you just to complete a specific task that they have right now.
> My first thought is to lean towards small companies that are not looking to grow. They are hard to find, and usually have no time/energy to "train" me.
If they're not looking to grow themselves then why would they invest in growing you?
Sounds like you have no motivation and want to coast along. You can only do that in software with the right skills. You have to develop skill - you know, “grow.”
If you like stagnant work, you have to find a company requiring that kind of work. Probably not in the software industry.
I can relate to, never cared about any of circus around job applications, unfortunely we are not expected to say we do work for money, we have to want to change the world, leave our mark in the universe.
What other industries but tech do any of us bother to talk about finding jobs that align with our values? (Outside of avoiding illegal or immoral work.) I think we were incredibly fortunate before ZIRP went away that we had much greater opportunity to choose companies that appealed to us.
It sounds like this person has a hobby that they want to get paid to do.
Which is fine, if you can find a way to make it happen.
But for the majority of us, work means work. It's not always aligned with your own interests, it can feel like drudgery, and we accept the uncomfortable reality that our labor is probably making somebody else richer than it's making us.
I'm a fan of cooperatives, where at least you know that you have part ownership over your endeavors. But even then, you often need to work to satisfy clients and customers, rather than to satisfy your own interests.
Ultimately, I've learned to separate my hobby interest in programming and my work. I accept that work will always feel like work, but a few things (like good coworkers) can make a big difference. I try to make the experience tolerable for myself and my coworkers, and then I do what I really love on the side.
* have their own niche so they don't have to fight for survival but don't have to aggressively expand either
if you know where to look.
The caveat is that they probably are not hiring many people right now, and the bar is not low at all (even though most employees are mediocre). In the current market, many people want to work at those companies.
In a world of lead actors, there’s nothing wrong with being a career supporting actor.
Same is true for software. There’s so many smaller, rural companies that lack the knowledge. There’s so many out of the box opportunities to add a little IoT into the field. There’s so many little wins to be had NOT following the boomer path of career servitude to an omnipotent leader Boss. You don’t have to go down the that road, you can always pivot or be supporting those efforts.
That isn't realistic at all. Customers change and their needs change with them. Sometimes customers die. Products that stay the same change their fit over time and eventually fall away. A business that is not growing is dying. That is okay. It can be fine to let things fall away when they have run their course, but some prefer to endure. But the absolute fact remains that a business that is not growing is dying.
It seems like what you are perceiving is a common market delusion. An unfortunate fact of hiring is those workers who are not employed and satisfied are often less experienced and skilled than those who are well placed and not looking. The same logic applies the other way around to companies. Those who are looking to hire juniors who haven't yet found their way are often companies that lack a solid center and just want to squeeze some money out of whatever customers they can find using whatever tool is at hand.
With the current state of things if your needs are truly modest then there is a good chance that you can get by with some independent offering. Find something you are interested in and make it work for someone willing to pay for it. Make sure to lean more into sales and actually making things work for customers than the engineer tendency to envision mechanisms and focus entirely on that. This way you can set the balance for yourself, and I can absolutely guarantee that you will experience the realities of growth or death up close, though in a more personal way that you can take control of and manage for yourself using criteria that have meaning for you.
Sure, but one could imagine that there are people working at the supermarket who would also rather do personal stuff or go cycling. But there they are, serving you.
government jobs or at state-owned companies might be your only choice.
Or maybe landing on a lucky spot of a run of the mill consultancy company where you're left at god's will until you retire. Their attrition is so high layoffs are rare, at least where I live (YMMV)
I work for a non-profit, and have found a very good place where we are treated well and where I can work on mostly interesting stuff mostly in the ways that seem best to me (not all non-profits are like this, for sure) -- and also make probably 1/2 to 1/3rd (or less?) what some of you make.
I’ll put in a plug for nonprofits. In the U.S. there are thousands of them and they all need tech workers of some kind. Some have digital products like web applications and mobile apps. Some just have a Wordpress site and basic IT needs. In any case it is probably not going to be cutting edge tech.
But aligning with values might be easier since that is what a nonprofit is all about. It’s an organization that is going all-in on one particular specific set of values, to the exclusion of commercial goals like making profit for owners or shareholders.
Which means that they also don’t pay as well (nearly as well) as private big tech companies. If nothing else, working at a nonprofit will help you realize how important money vs mission is to you, in a very personal way. You’ll either say “I can live on this” or “this sucks, I can’t stand being underpaid.”
Note that not all nonprofits are charities. There are thousands of trade associations, chambers of commerce, economic development councils, etc. in the U.S. And of course all sorts of political committees and orgs across the spectrum.
An analogy I like to use is that I enjoy painting - I've become pretty good at landscapes, portraits, still life... and what most employers are looking for is someone who can paint walls, because that's what they or their customers need. Computers to us are a hobby - for most others they are a tool; if you're going to earn money this way then you need to focus more on delivering value to the people who pay you, and try to find someone who will reward you in line with the value you provide. That usually means first and foremost delivering the required functionality within the required time frame; technical excellence takes (usually a distant) second place, unless you're lucky enough to work on something really interesting.
So what do you do, as an enthusiast? The way I have survived is to make the work interesting in small ways - try different techniques, libraries, algorithms; it depends how much time pressure you're under, as to how much leeway you have. Take advantage of training opportunities - there is always a lot to learn, even if you think you're pretty good already, and more skills improves your chances of landing better jobs in the future. Take pride in your work, even if no-one else notices.
Yes, the corporate life is a grind, but so are most jobs, and at least you get a comfortable chair. Make the best of it or do something else.
52 comments
[ 619 ms ] story [ 2638 ms ] threadOne is bootstrap. Do what you care about, and make a dent. If all you want is to be able to sustain a frugal life then this takes less effort, but not that much less than earning far more.
The other option is to join a (true) non profit. Some of them do seek growth, but some don't.
Do your own projects on the side and keep your antenna peeled for other opportunities more in line with your own life goals.
If they're not looking to grow themselves then why would they invest in growing you?
If you like stagnant work, you have to find a company requiring that kind of work. Probably not in the software industry.
Story of life. Everyone is looking for a middle way between an acceptable work and money.
In the order hand, he’s the mythical programmer who is passionate with tech and doesn’t care about money.
Which is fine, if you can find a way to make it happen.
But for the majority of us, work means work. It's not always aligned with your own interests, it can feel like drudgery, and we accept the uncomfortable reality that our labor is probably making somebody else richer than it's making us.
I'm a fan of cooperatives, where at least you know that you have part ownership over your endeavors. But even then, you often need to work to satisfy clients and customers, rather than to satisfy your own interests.
Ultimately, I've learned to separate my hobby interest in programming and my work. I accept that work will always feel like work, but a few things (like good coworkers) can make a big difference. I try to make the experience tolerable for myself and my coworkers, and then I do what I really love on the side.
* are mostly B2B oriented
* are (usually) private
* have a healthy balance sheet
* have their own niche so they don't have to fight for survival but don't have to aggressively expand either
if you know where to look.
The caveat is that they probably are not hiring many people right now, and the bar is not low at all (even though most employees are mediocre). In the current market, many people want to work at those companies.
Same is true for software. There’s so many smaller, rural companies that lack the knowledge. There’s so many out of the box opportunities to add a little IoT into the field. There’s so many little wins to be had NOT following the boomer path of career servitude to an omnipotent leader Boss. You don’t have to go down the that road, you can always pivot or be supporting those efforts.
It seems like what you are perceiving is a common market delusion. An unfortunate fact of hiring is those workers who are not employed and satisfied are often less experienced and skilled than those who are well placed and not looking. The same logic applies the other way around to companies. Those who are looking to hire juniors who haven't yet found their way are often companies that lack a solid center and just want to squeeze some money out of whatever customers they can find using whatever tool is at hand.
With the current state of things if your needs are truly modest then there is a good chance that you can get by with some independent offering. Find something you are interested in and make it work for someone willing to pay for it. Make sure to lean more into sales and actually making things work for customers than the engineer tendency to envision mechanisms and focus entirely on that. This way you can set the balance for yourself, and I can absolutely guarantee that you will experience the realities of growth or death up close, though in a more personal way that you can take control of and manage for yourself using criteria that have meaning for you.
Or maybe landing on a lucky spot of a run of the mill consultancy company where you're left at god's will until you retire. Their attrition is so high layoffs are rare, at least where I live (YMMV)
But aligning with values might be easier since that is what a nonprofit is all about. It’s an organization that is going all-in on one particular specific set of values, to the exclusion of commercial goals like making profit for owners or shareholders.
Which means that they also don’t pay as well (nearly as well) as private big tech companies. If nothing else, working at a nonprofit will help you realize how important money vs mission is to you, in a very personal way. You’ll either say “I can live on this” or “this sucks, I can’t stand being underpaid.”
Note that not all nonprofits are charities. There are thousands of trade associations, chambers of commerce, economic development councils, etc. in the U.S. And of course all sorts of political committees and orgs across the spectrum.
So what do you do, as an enthusiast? The way I have survived is to make the work interesting in small ways - try different techniques, libraries, algorithms; it depends how much time pressure you're under, as to how much leeway you have. Take advantage of training opportunities - there is always a lot to learn, even if you think you're pretty good already, and more skills improves your chances of landing better jobs in the future. Take pride in your work, even if no-one else notices.
Yes, the corporate life is a grind, but so are most jobs, and at least you get a comfortable chair. Make the best of it or do something else.