I looked that up. It sounds like you have to start an entrepreneurial business there (in which you invest at least 5k). I have no interest in starting my own business, so that is probably not an option.
Below the teaser blurb ending "The Netherlands offers one way out," and the byline, where you'd expect the article to start, is the text "Your window is closing."
Fortunately, if you scroll further, the ominous warning turns out to only be for the paywall.
And go where? Seriously I don’t know of another country that isn’t on the same authoritarian track, if not further along. If anyone has done a serious study and come up with a country that still has strong judicial independence, due process, lack of censorship and respect for private property, Id love to know
Also, with the sole exception of Hungary, no place in Europe is remotely on the same authoritarian track as the US. And the democratic systems and institutions are much more robust, too. More consensus, less first-pass-the-post bullshit.
Went for dinner with a Parisian friend of mine. He spent a good amount of it complaining that Paris is unrecognizable from his youth. Too many Americans, everywhere!
I love the Netherlands and have spent a few months trying it out as a place to live. It's among my favourite places: moderate weather, friendly people, a high level of personal freedom, very high rate of English speakers, clean and modern environment, good international restaurants, lively town centres even in smaller towns, most towns have rivers / canals which make them very pleasant to walk around. I could list many other positive things.
There are some (big) downsides though. Properties are very small and very expensive compared to other European countries, so you can't expect a high standard of living in this aspect unless you have plenty of money. Taxes are also very high. In addition to the usual income taxes, you pay a wealth tax and the threshold is very low (around 55k EUR in savings/assets) so this isn't only targeting very rich people. This makes it a pretty bad place to live if you care about investing and saving for the future.
If it wasn't for these last two points I'd almost definitely move there.
As a US Expat who just purchased a home in Amsterdam it's a hell of a lot better than paying $1.5 mil for a shack in Sunnyvale. We bought the apartment we were living in from our landlord (funny enough because they're going to start charging him extra tax for N+2 rental properties). It's worth it.
For one, they ruled that the wealth tax is against the EU human rights agenda. So they're scrambling to come up with a solution. Even with this tax, the projected weight isn't terrible. For reference my wife and I are CoastFIRE here with ~2mil USD in NW and the tax is marginal compared to our returns.
>"I love the Netherlands and have spent a few months trying it out as a place to live. It's among my favourite places: moderate weather, friendly people, a high level of personal freedom, very high rate of English speakers, clean and modern environment, good international restaurants, lively town centres even in smaller towns, most towns have rivers / canals which make them very pleasant to walk around. I could list many other positive things."<
Yes, and about half the Netherlands is below sea level, something I cannot abide.
It’s perfectly clear now that half the voters in the US are enthusiastic about fascism and white supremacy. Frankly, it makes me physically ill. Pockets of the country are great, but the nation as a whole is going to become another Russia in my lifetime and it breaks my heart. Why subject myself to this torture? The time to change our fate was 2016 and 2024 and we failed miserably.
Australian here, grew up in the great south-west, and then I lived in the USA for 15 years, decided it was bunk, switched to Europe and have now been in middle-Europe (Austria) for 18 years, with a year in the UK and a year in Japan, for context.
My quality of life has increased dramatically with every move. Europe as a place to live is just so much better than Aus->USA ever was .. better health care, better food, better people and culture.
Only thing that falters is the weather - but I tell you, there is nothing more joyous than Vienna in spring time.
Anyway, I've run the gamut on western civilization. I won't go back to the USA or Australia, no sir - and even if, only as a tourist, never to reside again. Ask me anything.
What's the reason you rank Australia below the US? As a San Franciscan, I recently visited Sydney and Melbourne for the first time and thought they were incredible. Food-wise, I don't think I had a single bad meal in Melbourne, and I wasn't even trying particularly hard to find the good stuff. I think I'd love the opportunity to live there someday.
Europe is wonderful, but to quote Joni Mitchell, "it's too old and cold and settled in its ways here." (Not to mention the looming spectre of war...)
Ah, yes. Of course, in the wake of the fall of the United States, everywhere else on earth will immediately flourish. Just my 2 cents, but before you leave, you might want to talk to some immigrants about what brought them to the United States in the first place.
As if immigrants fleeing Nazis in WWII 90 years ago or folk from less wealthy regions of the world today are a barometer for the state of the Netherlands?
The Netherlands is already doing well today, and don't have the grim outlooks of the current US. It's not perfect and the fall of the US would have enormous impacts, of course, but this seems like a total non sequitur.
I'm not sure I understand your point, nor you mine.
I'm not commenting about the Netherlands specifically, I'm commenting about people leaving the United States for anywhere because they feel similar to you about "the grim outlooks of the current US". It's a common narrative, but about 10x more people immigrate to the US every year as compared to the Netherlands. A lot of people in the US are like, "Trump sucks, I'm moving to Spain." Most of them never will, they just like saying they will. They don't speak Spanish, have no contacts anywhere outside of the US, have never been to Spain, etc. I'm just suggesting that the grass is not always greener on the other side, there are always trade-offs and some of the best ways to learn about those trade-offs is talking with people that have lived in both places.
> some immigrants about what brought them to the United States in the first place.
What brought them to the US is that if they have a kid, now their kid is a citizen. Green card etc waived - you wouldn't deport a family would you? Now they nominally have zero income so they qualify for full on super duper welfare - food, house, medical care. Of course find a job, too - but has to be under the table because no green card. Meaning no taxes either. So free food, free house no rent, free medicine, no taxes. Medical care legally requires accomodations for foreign languages - don't need to speak English either.
I mean, if Japan said, "if you have a kid here, live here on our dime, eat on our dime, free medical care, no taxes" yea I would take that deal!! Can't blame em
Irony of the whole thing? This actually kinda solves the population crisis. Forces people to have a kid. Actually an interesting finding but poorly explored since the powers that be like to bury their head in the sand and pretend 50 million people haven't exploited this.
Other point is well, why did this even happen? Well, the landlords are quite happy to see the feds paying for rent, they'll collect that check, as with the food suppliers and the medical care practitioners - a very nice niche. And the small businesses are more than happy to pay someone under the table untaxed, lower overhead. So the people coming in illegally, they benefit, the people collecting the taxes paying for them, they benefit, everybody else, welp, there goes your tax money
I sometimes wonder whether the political attitudes of some immigrants and their descendants are shaped by negative experiences or family histories from their countries of origin. This might help explain why people with backgrounds in places like South Africa, the Levant, or Eastern Europe often express strong libertarian views or criticize institutions such as the European Union, progressive politics, or European bureaucratic culture.
Many people don’t realize how much European countries have advanced. Poland and Romania, for example, have been among the major beneficiaries of EU integration. At the same time, American tech companies enjoyed relatively easy access to the European market for years, operating with limited regulation, while countries like Russia and China restricted foreign platforms early on and invested heavily in developing their own cloud and digital infrastructures.
In contrast, every time I travel extensively outside the US, I wonder what the fuck we’re even doing with our unfathomable wealth. Crumbling infrastructure, horrendous healthcare, mass homelessness and human misery, all while our oligarchs sit atop their piles of gold and tell us to work harder.
47 comments
[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 73.3 ms ] threadBelow the teaser blurb ending "The Netherlands offers one way out," and the byline, where you'd expect the article to start, is the text "Your window is closing."
Fortunately, if you scroll further, the ominous warning turns out to only be for the paywall.
https://i.imgur.com/4WT4S8u.png
Also, with the sole exception of Hungary, no place in Europe is remotely on the same authoritarian track as the US. And the democratic systems and institutions are much more robust, too. More consensus, less first-pass-the-post bullshit.
I know what the comments will be.
And the US is one of the top immigrant countries in the world. Always worth reflecting why people choose that when there is greener gras.
:)
Learn something new every day.
To be clear, I just didn't think anyone would refer to someone from Paris specifically (rather than, "French").
I mean, a lot of places you would add "-ite" but I'm guessing that would be a less-than-ideal suffix for this particular city lol
There are some (big) downsides though. Properties are very small and very expensive compared to other European countries, so you can't expect a high standard of living in this aspect unless you have plenty of money. Taxes are also very high. In addition to the usual income taxes, you pay a wealth tax and the threshold is very low (around 55k EUR in savings/assets) so this isn't only targeting very rich people. This makes it a pretty bad place to live if you care about investing and saving for the future.
If it wasn't for these last two points I'd almost definitely move there.
For one, they ruled that the wealth tax is against the EU human rights agenda. So they're scrambling to come up with a solution. Even with this tax, the projected weight isn't terrible. For reference my wife and I are CoastFIRE here with ~2mil USD in NW and the tax is marginal compared to our returns.
Yes, and about half the Netherlands is below sea level, something I cannot abide.
https://news.ycombinator.com/from?site=relocateme.substack.c...
https://old.reddit.com/r/AmerExit/comments/urwlbr/a_guide_fo... is also helpful.
(no affiliation, I just like folks helping folks get out)
That you'd give up so easily when your voice, presence, and vote, matters most. It's being tested right now, and leaving is the only way to fail.
Also, why do you think any other country would -love- to have you?
Although if you have that much money life in the US right now probably isn't personally on the extreme decline.
My quality of life has increased dramatically with every move. Europe as a place to live is just so much better than Aus->USA ever was .. better health care, better food, better people and culture.
Only thing that falters is the weather - but I tell you, there is nothing more joyous than Vienna in spring time.
Anyway, I've run the gamut on western civilization. I won't go back to the USA or Australia, no sir - and even if, only as a tourist, never to reside again. Ask me anything.
Europe is wonderful, but to quote Joni Mitchell, "it's too old and cold and settled in its ways here." (Not to mention the looming spectre of war...)
The Netherlands is already doing well today, and don't have the grim outlooks of the current US. It's not perfect and the fall of the US would have enormous impacts, of course, but this seems like a total non sequitur.
I'm not commenting about the Netherlands specifically, I'm commenting about people leaving the United States for anywhere because they feel similar to you about "the grim outlooks of the current US". It's a common narrative, but about 10x more people immigrate to the US every year as compared to the Netherlands. A lot of people in the US are like, "Trump sucks, I'm moving to Spain." Most of them never will, they just like saying they will. They don't speak Spanish, have no contacts anywhere outside of the US, have never been to Spain, etc. I'm just suggesting that the grass is not always greener on the other side, there are always trade-offs and some of the best ways to learn about those trade-offs is talking with people that have lived in both places.
What brought them to the US is that if they have a kid, now their kid is a citizen. Green card etc waived - you wouldn't deport a family would you? Now they nominally have zero income so they qualify for full on super duper welfare - food, house, medical care. Of course find a job, too - but has to be under the table because no green card. Meaning no taxes either. So free food, free house no rent, free medicine, no taxes. Medical care legally requires accomodations for foreign languages - don't need to speak English either.
I mean, if Japan said, "if you have a kid here, live here on our dime, eat on our dime, free medical care, no taxes" yea I would take that deal!! Can't blame em
Irony of the whole thing? This actually kinda solves the population crisis. Forces people to have a kid. Actually an interesting finding but poorly explored since the powers that be like to bury their head in the sand and pretend 50 million people haven't exploited this.
Other point is well, why did this even happen? Well, the landlords are quite happy to see the feds paying for rent, they'll collect that check, as with the food suppliers and the medical care practitioners - a very nice niche. And the small businesses are more than happy to pay someone under the table untaxed, lower overhead. So the people coming in illegally, they benefit, the people collecting the taxes paying for them, they benefit, everybody else, welp, there goes your tax money
Many people don’t realize how much European countries have advanced. Poland and Romania, for example, have been among the major beneficiaries of EU integration. At the same time, American tech companies enjoyed relatively easy access to the European market for years, operating with limited regulation, while countries like Russia and China restricted foreign platforms early on and invested heavily in developing their own cloud and digital infrastructures.
In my own experience, I quickly saw and stared to miss the many strengths of our way of life.
For the curious about which country it was, see my username.