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Ask HN: Review my startup, TeamDoList.com

26 points by hgezim ↗ HN
I created TeamDoList.com to scratch my own itch. I was working on a project with 3 other people and we started managing our tasks through email! This got tedious and the thread quickly grew to 78 emails. So, I set out to create TeamDoList.com to solve that need. TeamDoList.com allows you to create ad-hoc to-do lists and share them with anyone through a URL.

http://TeamDoList.com

Now, I need to evaluate my value hypothesis, namely, whether this is useful for teams to manage tasks.

So, would you use this personally? How about for your team? That's the main question I have. What additional features would you need to make this useful to you? Do you see a use I haven't thought of (e.g. shopping list management)?

Also, any suggestions of how I might be able to monetize this?

Thank you very much for your feedback.

Also, I'm kind of new to HN, so I hope I'm not doing anything wrong on here.

55 comments

[ 0.27 ms ] story [ 136 ms ] thread
hippo33
So, I run a startup where we've previously faced a similar problem w/ workflow management. To combat this, we use Google Docs and collaborate on a Goals Doc. It allows us to write notes next to various tasks. And, we'll also write the results of a given activity, as well, on the doc. Lastly, I like how Google Docs is invite-only, since I only want my team to view/edit the goals.

To answer your qs, given the above, Docs works out better for my team. As for my personal to-do list, I just keep one within the tasks list on Gmail.

hgezim
So adding notes to tasks and some privacy would make this more valuable for you?

If I did that would you start using it? What else would you need to use it?

Avalaxy
I'm sorry, but I'm really not interested in yet ANOTHER todo app/website/whatever. Please come up with something innovating. Creating the millionth TODO app and calling it a 'startup' is just not going to work. We have enough of these things. There's no need for it, and it certainly shouldn't be called a business, because it simply isn't.

(the same goes for the thousands of project management apps, hour tracker apps, wannabe social networks, twitter sentiment tools, accounting apps, photo filter apps, a/b testing websites, etc.).

localhost3000
unnecessarily negative, belittling, and mean-spirited. has putting this person down made you feel better about yourself?
Avalaxy
I really don't think it's "unnecessarily negative". I see so many people wasting their time by working on 'ideas' that aren't even real ideas. He could have used his time better doing something actually useful. A lot of programmers have a big tunnel vision. They want to create a 'startup' no matter what, and then they come up with a 'TODO list' and waste many months of their valuable time working on it, just to be disappointed when they realize there is no need for it.

You can be very kind and tell him that the idea is awesome and that he will become a millionaire, but please be a bit more realistic and just tell him the truth.

anil_mamede
> A lot of programmers have a big tunnel vision. They want to create a 'startup' no matter what

But it is not the programmer's fault. Many incubators preach that everyone must have an ideia, no matter how awful it is.

mgkimsal
No, it's still a developer's fault. Just because people say to do something doesn't mean to do it. Likewise, many other parties preach something different.

Building out a full app then testing out a hypothesis was probably a waste of time. Putting up a landing page and promoting out to his network would likely have yielded very similar results - people saying "we don't need another todo list". faster, and cheaper.

localhost3000
the guy asked for feedback on his product, not his life decisions. to make the leap is presumptuous, pompous, and, yes, unnecessarily negative. there are polite ways of giving negative feedback, for instance you might have said: "hey thanks for posting. looks like you've done a good job putting it together. i worry that there isn't a market for it, though, given all the competition that currently exists and people's general inability to monetize these sorts of products. maybe use this as a jumping off point for something else?" instead, your original comment is full of vitriol and, in one fell swoop, you've managed to put down the creators of "thousands of project management apps, hour tracker apps, wannabe social networks, twitter sentiment tools, accounting apps, photo filter apps, a/b testing websites, etc." you, sir, must surely be without flaw to make such broad and sweeping generalizations about your fellow community members.

it continues to amaze how certain members of this community cannot recognize the vast chasm of constructive criticism that lies between the extremes of '[telling] him that the idea is awesome and that he will become a millionaire' and telling him he has wasted his time working on an idea that "isn't even a real idea" (and we won't even address the absurdity of that last sentence...).

acabal
To be fair, the title of the post does say "startup" which implies the goal is to make money, and the poster asks for advice on revenue streams. If he had said, "Check out my weekend project, enjoy!" that's one thing, but calling the eleventy-billionth todo list app a startup is going to get replies like the OP.

Personally I agree in sentiment, if not in tone, with the OP; there's a trillion todo list apps, finding one the poster could have worked with would have freed valuable time for developing something else. Unless of course this was an app done for learning purposes, but the poster doesn't say that.

tomasien
I recognize you don't think it was unnecessarily negative, you're the one who posted it. I don't know that we needed that clarified.

What you mean here is "I don't think I would use this" - you don't have to tell him his idea is awesome, but the way you put it made it seem like you are the gatekeeper of awesome and this does not qualify, so go ahead start over and move on.

As OP made clear, he's scratching an itch and finds things like basecamp overcomplex. I agree, a trillion percent. We use Phabricator and it's great, but it took literally 3 days to get it all set up. If we were just starting out, I'd love to use something lightweight like this.

adam
Not only is this mean spirited, I think it's fairly short-sighted. I've tried several to-do list apps and none of them have quite worked for me. I end up going back to scrap pieces of paper laying on my desk or stickies, both of which are sub-optimal. In fact I've never met anyone who fully recommends their to-do list software, their recommendation is always filled with caveats and things they still do "the old way."

Yes the market is saturated but that doesn't mean there is nothing innovative to be done here. I say more power to this person for building something for himself and putting himself out there to see what others think.

hgezim
I agree.

The reason I started this was because given all those tools out there, I had a team member send out an email with tasks for a project and the thread quickly exploded. This is how we were managing out tasks for that project. I'd be replying to the email with my updated tasks, and boom, I get another one that's already more up-to-date than the one I'm replying to. That's the itch I needed scratched.

I was going to propose Basecamp, etc. but I didn't think management would buy in because of the perceived complexity of signing up everyone, etc.

j45
He did call out a hypothesis and kept the first version no frills...

I agree that a Todo list is common, but noone has solved it for everyone either, just like personal schedules, i still try out multiple solutions regularly.

troebr
I agree that the main issue is calling it a startup. But I see nothing wrong with redoing something existing. I've been working on something similar just for the sake of having something to code on, and trying out a couple framework/technologies.
webwright
Yeah, that was rude AND wrong. You have NO idea what the OPs goals are with this. It could be his first independent project ever just to get his feet wet. Even if he DOES have great ambitions for it, you don't need to be terribly innovative to win.

Build something that attacks a clear need, has clear competition, and comes at the market from a slightly different angle and you can oftentimes build a huge business just by executing well. Trello? Asana? Sprint.ly? All doing REALLY WELL. I know a couple of guys who built "twitter sentiment tools" recently. They launched into a crowded market of people doing the same thing. They're now nearly 30 people strong and are doing millions in revenue per year. In big and/or growing markets, there's nearly infinite opportunity.

tluyben2
You have a point, but not a very solid point looking at the past of a lot of companies. I find most of these tools lacking (for instance, I find Basecamp rather unusable and really don't like to work with it as it makes me less efficient). If I find them lacking, other people have that same feeling. I'm not saying there is a big market per se for these kind of tools, but there is a market. When tools like Jira, Basecamp, RememberTheMilk and many, many others came to the market, there were tons of them at that time as well and yet they made it big, 2 of them well over $100 million / year businesses. With Stackoverflow you could say there were enough sites 'doing the same'.

Usually even if the US is DROWNING in startups or even grown up companies doing what you want to do, you can probably make a solid, well run business in your own country if you are outside the US. In big countries there are even regions where this works.

And scratching your itch is fun and it's always good to actually FINISH something, even though you won't make money with it.

yakshaving
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IvnptQJ__U

In many ways, the work of a critic is easy. We risk very little, yet enjoy a position over those who offer up their work and their selves to our judgment. We thrive on negative criticism, which is fun to write and to read.

But the bitter truth we critics must face, is that in the grand scheme of things, the average piece of junk is probably more meaningful than our criticism designating it so. But there are times when a critic truly risks something, and that is in the discovery and defense of the new.

The world is often unkind to new talents, new creations. The new needs friends.

Last night, I experienced something new; an extraordinary meal from a singularly unexpected source. To say that both the meal and its maker have challenged my preconceptions about fine cooking, is a gross understatement. They have rocked me to my core. In the past, I have made no secret of my disdain for Chef Gusteau's famous motto, 'Anyone can cook.'

But I realize — only now do I truly understand what he meant. Not everyone can become a great artist, but a great artist can come from anywhere. It is difficult to imagine more humble origins than those of the genius now cooking at Gusteau's, who is, in this critic's opinion, nothing less than the finest chef in France. I will be returning to Gusteau's soon, hungry for more."

-- Anton Ego, "Ratatouille"

macspoofing
That was completely uncalled for. Even if the market is flooded with todo apps, it doesn't mean there is no room for innovation and it doesn't mean that a new todo app can't pull in some solid revenue.
iamben
So just don't comment or vote. If everyone feels the same, the post won't even make it on to the front page. The negativity isn't called for!

If the OP wants to try and make a business from it, let them. If it turns a profit, fantastic. If it doesn't, what a great experience - and maybe next time they'll have the experience and drive to make something you are interested in :-)

bpatrianakos
Regurgitating the "be innovative" line is just as cliche and overdone as building a todo list. No one has to be innovative to do a startup. It's just stupid dogma that people repeat to make themselves feel important, special, and unique. Being hostile when people show off their work makes people not want to share their work anymore. You don't have to blow sunshine up people's asses when you don't like something but you should be constructive nonetheless.
[dead] udkl
Simple functionality for a specific purpose. Good clear web design.

Like it !

As to how the product should evolve ? You could view how people are using the product and then communicate with them on how THEY would love to see the product evolve.

About Monetization : My advice would be to not think about monetizing before it has a sizable and regular user base. Concentrate on getting more users. This is the hard part. Monetization is relatively easier.

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rgbrgb
So the design is nice and I get that it's minimal. However, my impression is that teams want something a bit more full-featured. Have you looked at the competition much?

I've been using Asana. I also liked Wunderlist for this kind of more minimal todo-list.

How do you want to differentiate yourself? Right now the difference I see is that your lists are public and linkable, but I'm not sure that's something teams want (I don't).

hgezim
Thank you for your feedback. I guess I see the key being ad-hoc tasks with someone you're loosely in a team with. Maybe a school project where the team is only very temporary. Or a shopping list, etc.

I initially created this to replace email task management which we ended up using for a project at work. What's what started this.

Do you think it's worth going the route of making myself more like Asana by adding features, etc?

Would you value being able to make a list on TeamDoList.com private?

ianpri
Really nice execution. I think that the core feature that is apparent when using the app (simplicity) is going to be one of the downsides of using it in a team based environment:

1)How do I know if someone on my team has completed a task, if you send out email notifications,I might as well use email.

2)How do I make the lists private to just my team?

3)How do I assign a todo or know who ticked that a todo has been done?

Its these sort of things i'd be looking for, but then you're left with another generic (if nice looking) team based todo list.

hgezim
Wow, you raise some really good points. I left out the features like assigning tasks, making list private for sake of keeping it simple with the intention of seeing which way people want this to go. I guess I never thought that adding even just those things would make it just another team based todo list app.

In terms of updates, if or when I create a mobile app, you'd get those updates on the mobile. For now, I could add a notification system so if you leave a tap open, or go back to your list, you'd get all the updates.

Any other ideas to possibly make this viable?

Once again, I really appreciate the thoughtful feedback.

bpatrianakos
The features that would make it just another team based todo app might be a good idea to keep out of the app. Its really nice as-is. Sometimes features like assigning tasks and notifications are more distracting than helpful. You'll have to decide on your definition of a group. Is it a medium-largish company? In that case they'll probably want a lot of structure and those features. But if your idea of a group or team is five friends working together or just any tight group then leaving it without notifications and assignment would be a good thing. Personally, if I assign someone a task I don't want a notification of when its done. If its that important the person knows to call me. And I don't need another text field to assign someone a task. Everyone in my group knows what we have to do and we do it. If not, I'll just append a "Feed the dog (Johnny)". Simple is better.
j45
I see one valuable thing in being able to instantly create a list and send it out to someone.
aanaravs
It's a great concept, especially the no login part.

A few things I'd like to see:

1) private lists 2) assign to-dos to certain team members 3) set up priorities 4) set up deadlines

Cheers, Aanarav

hgezim
Do you feel that adding those features makes it too similar to the competition? Asana? Basecamp?

I've had those features in my todo list for a while but just refrained to make this as simple as possible and let people take it where they need it :)

Thanks so much for your feedback and support.

yakshaving
The ad-hoc thing is really nice for teams that seem to form spontanteously : Read as StartupWeekend, Hackathon, etc. But probably not for firmly established teams that have protocols and ways of working that are already formalized in project documentation and tools they've been using.

A todo list should definitely get out of your way (for the MOST part), but be intrusive enough that it helps you get the work done to be meaningfully differentiated. (just a personal opinion).

Keep trucking, I think this is a good tool for ad-hoc team task lists, and I'm sure you'll come up with some good use cases for that specific function.

And most importantly, don't let the nay-sayers get you down :-)

hgezim
Thank you so much, @yakshaving!

I hadn't thought about StartupWeekend, and Hackathon, actually. Any ideas on how I might reach them to see if they could somehow encourage teams to use this?!

Does TeamDoList.com do a good job at getting out of your way? Any suggestions for improvement that would make it useful for you?

darkpark
I really like this idea, to be honest. I think that ianpri makes some solid points but then again, it seems like this project isn't supposed to have those features.

I like that it does not require a login but a suggestion: have the user create a username for themselves that could tie them to the list. This would still make it so that nobody has to login, but yet you would be able to see who completed a certain task. Just an idea.

All in all I think it looks really nice, and I enjoyed the functionality and ease of making a list and letting others contribute to it. It literally takes a few seconds from landing on the site to have a functional list I can then send off to teammates.

Good stuff.

hgezim
Thanks so much!

The idea for creating a username is definitely spot on. I just have to find a very non-intrusive way on the UI to _suggest_ that people create a username or enter an email address.

MicahWedemeyer
Since you're calling it a startup as opposed to just a project, I have to ask about business model. How will you make money off this?

I think you'll have a very, very difficult time monetizing this, as there are already dozens and dozens of free TODO apps. Unless you can carve out a die-hard niche that is 100% against signup and login forms, it will be difficult to compete with the others that are both free and easy to use.

hgezim
Sigh You're absolutely right. I guess, if there is such a niche, which remains to be seen, I maybe could limit the number of lists they can have before upgrading to premium?!

If anyone has ideas, I'm more than willing to listen.

bpatrianakos
Just build a cool app, make it the best you can, but don't quit your day job yet. As you go along and learn more about your users and the app starts to get a life or personality of its own then you'll probably be able to see a clear business model. I'm going to guess you haven't been working on this for more than a month or two so its very early to make any kind of judgement yet.

Just enjoy the ride and you'd be surprised what people will pay for. I don't care how many free todo apps are out there people will still pay for them. For examples, Things for Mac. Incredibly simple concept but its valuable enough that even I bought it a while back.

robertha
I really like your project--very simple, and I believe this is something I see myself using. I think that the one major feature you may add is "private lists", it won't require that much work for you to implement, but you'll hit wider range of audience. Good Luck.
hgezim
So, you're going to use it but adding a private list feature would make it even more useful to you?!

Nice, thanks so much!

bashzor
What problem does it solve? That's what you should ask yourself.

It just looks like another to-do app to me, which I might even have developed myself in about fifteen minutes. Also as others have mentioned, this is more of a project than some startup.

hgezim
Well, the idea came up when I was working on a project and we started using emails to manage our tasks. This became tedious and I thought about using Basecamp but was afraid that management would make a big deal out of it and not approve it. So, in a nutshell it's allows you to manage lists ad-hoc and then share them. That's it.

Thanks for the comment, though.

bashzor
Try Asana, also a collaborative to-do list but with many features. Not overly many features, just exactly the ones you need (or that was my experience anyway). Free also for business use up to 30 people, which is very reasonable I think.
bpatrianakos
I don't want to make you feel bad or rain on your parade but you must know there are hundreds of competing apps just like this. That's not to say yours can't be successful but if you'd like it to stand out you need to differentiate yourself somehow. Right now you've basically got a todo list app that lets you share lists via a public URL. It's very simple (that's neither good or bad, it just is).

So considering how simple the concept is, I think there are a few things to think about that would make this valuable and stand out from the crowd.

First, focus on convenience. There are a billion todo lists all approaching different aspects of the task management problem and approaching it in different ways. Your approach is my favorite of all - just a list that you can check stuff off of. Its perfect. But I won't use it unless its easier and more convenient to use than any other option. So I need an app (a mobile web site will suffice which I see you already have but can use improvement). I need a way to come back in case I forget the URL of my list. I just need to be able to whip out my phone/tablet/laptop/browser and be able to get creating/checking off/reading my todos in no more than 2 or 3 steps.

Once you get convenience down, then work on design. You're off to a great start. There no frills, its super simple and minimal and its really great but it doesn't have that intangible thing that makes it memorable. You're definitely on the right track and I wouldn't tell you to add anything but just to refine what you have. Focus on typography and UI interaction.

And if this is meant for teams then I think you'll need to create a login system and some more privacy. I don't always feel comfortable putting all my todos in public even if they're only available via a special URL. A lot of things can happen to a URL. I think its great that you have a lazy login system but to me the fact that I can't save my own account and come back to it later to see all my lists and all my tasks, and see who on my team is currently sharing tasks wit me makes this feel like a one-off app. Like something you use for a day then forget about. But if I could use the app, decide I like it, then create a permanent account I'd be much more likely to return in the future and be invested in the product.

I don't care how many trillion todo apps we have out there, there are never enough. I like what you're doing and I'd say focus on convenience and design and if you're serious about making this for teams then give people the option to create permanent accounts. I probably won't use this today or tomorrow or next week but I did sign up for mailing list and I'm definitely excited to see what you come up with in the future.

hgezim
You've raised some really great points. And no, this is not raining on my parade, I think this feedback is more like fertilizer :). So, thanks.

I guess since I use it and know the URL quite well, I didn't prioritize creating an account too high, but you're absolutely right.

Thanks so much for your thoughts.

P.S.: Any thoughts on how I can monetize this? Would you pay for a monthly subscription if there was a mobile app and all the convenience factors you've mentioned?

johnmurch
A few thoughts on making $$$.

1. SAAS - Set the bar low and features high -> $2/month gets you private lists, dedicated subdomain, etc. Make it so cheap that people just buy it/signup. Might want to focus on "prepay 6 months for $12" - so users don't feel locked in. etc. Have more features with the premium model like email notifications/alerts/bigger teams

2. Affiliate Ads - Focus on future partners/affiliates - think of your product as a gateway drug to a bigger platform for doing/development. Push affiliate products that are targeted towards developers as well as bigger products like asana or basecamp. Try other products that every person needs (dollarshaveclub/birchbox.com)

3. Kinda crazy but wonder if you could do something like http://www.launchbit.com - if users signup with email and leverage http://www.fullcontact.com/developer/ or https://www.rapleaf.com/ you could break out users and serve up newsletters around productivity and do joint ventures with other companies to test drive their products. Since most likely your audiance will be startup/dev community.

Anyway - just some thoughts

hgezim
Very interesting ideas. I love it!

I might try going after 1. at first and see where it goes.

Anyone doing something similar and want to partner up with me? Maybe a complementary system, etc.

johnmurch
I gotta throw out these 2 other ideas as they relate as I have some working code on a similar problem but focused around small groups and daily tasks.

1. Take a look at http://15five.com/ - Just 4 to 5 questions, 15mins - extremely valuable. The problem is status updates. A todo list can fit into this space nicely when you have many teams (e.g. enterprise) and all need a update/email for each weekly sprint.

2. Todo Tonight - Many developers/hackers/etc have day time jobs, but then spend another 3 to 5 hours each night hacking on something. To better focus on their time - rather than send crap to an email each day - why not have a task/todo that is nighly. Speeds up the process - focuses on a simpler achievable tasks (did you complete last night, add notes, urls,etc.) The idea is it's a holding place for "STUFF" it relates to what you are working on.

Hit me up @johnmurch if you want to chat more

bpatrianakos
johnmurch's comment has a lot of what I'd say. I'm not so sure about his #2 or 3 but his #1 was really good.

I'd just price it super low and have the option to prepay for a year for a small discount. If I had built this, I wouldn't be having visions of raking in millions but you could realistically make a nice side income from it. If the price is like $4 a month or $20 for a year and you're basically just hosting a CRUD app that only stores text then it shouldn't be very expensive to run. Consider too that you built it just for fun. Put that all together and even if you charged $1 for life from every user you've made a profit. Maybe I'm wrong but that's how I think of my projects. It's like I was going to rent the servers and build something anyway so even if I make a single cent then I'm in the green.

But to answer your question more directly, yes. If this were a beautiful site/mobile app that did this one thing really well I would pay. It would be really pretty to look at (like Cheddar is/was), would be super convenient (open a URL or tap a phone icon), and do one thing well (I managed different todo lists with others and I didn't have to fuck with settings or signing in more than once a month or click/tap through more than one screen to get what I wanted) so it would be worth the few bucks I'd probably spend on a coffee or something.

A problem I see is getting groups to use it. Individuals all have their own preferred ways of todo-ing. A thought just came to me that if you made this awesome to work with alone then people would end up using it on their own and then they'd get together and use the group features later. Just a thought.

Tie-ins with other products would be good too. I don't know if they're monetizable but they're certainly great for promotion. If you could build an API and hook your app up to someone else's and vice versa that could definitely be a value-add for a lot of people. Throw up a payment form with Stripe and just see if people will pay $1 for fully refundable 30-day trial and the promise of getting in on some future features of your choosing. That will tell you a lot about how interested people are and if its worth exploring monetization.

kt9
I like:

* that you built something. In a world full of talkers you're a doer! Kudos!

* I like the execution. I like the fact that you don't have to log in and can start creating a list right away.

I use emacs for pretty much everything (including todo lists) and I don't use any todo app (because I don't like switching out of emacs) so I'm not your target market. I wouldn't use this.

But please don't be discouraged, because not everyone is the same and there are people that would use this.

A couple of feature issues/feedback:

1. When I create a list and then come back to the page but forgot to save the link, I can't get back to my todo list. Maybe a way to know and save which lists I created would be great

2. If I create a list and go back and then try to create another one it doesn't add items. Maybe a bug?

Lastly keep plugging away. Even if you don't monetize this particular thing you're going to come across other problems that people will pay for. Ex: A todo list that allows you to add tasks and people that should do them and then tracks/nags that person to do it.

Good work. Keep going and thanks for sharing.

loumf
Probably the worst thing you could do to this app is collect a bunch of features from us and start implementing them -- if you do that you'll probably add priority, user assignment, better authentication, sub-tasks and eventually be like the 1000 other shared to-do lists. If this is the direction you think is best -- probably it would be better to abandon this idea.

A different way is to keep doubling down on what you have --find a use-case where your perspective is required and all of those other things are not -- move very quickly along that vector until you have something that might not even be described as a shared to-do list.

Here's an idea of what I mean. This site seems well suited to ad-hoc teams, probably distributed (not sharing an intranet for example), informal, low-security conscious -- meaning their data is either public or they don't care if it becomes public. Perhaps short-lived -- definitely unregulated.

For this -- I'd consider to-do lists to be done -- what else does this team need? Apply your template (easy sharing, minimal, etc) to those: wiki, document store, schedule. But, always, always do it in the style you have here or even a more radical version of it (if possible). If no one wants that, then consider that there's no market for this.

But before doing any of this, I'd start measuring engagement and then getting yourself in front of the highly engaged and figuring out what they are doing -- you learn a lot more talking to consumers (those that are consuming the product) than people like us.

As for monetization -- ad-hoc teams will be hard to get money from, but a SaaS style subscription for repeat users would be the standard way, I think. To-do list is free, but other tools are an additional cost.

hansy
This is just a random thought, but I think you could avoid using some of the features mentioned by other users (e.g. deadlines, priorities) by limiting the scope of the list to weekly tasks.

Presumably this would limit the length of the lists, which in turn would eliminate the need for fancy features that might bloat the app.

If people want those other features (i.e. they are using the lists for serious planning and project management) you could then charge.

Just my 2 cents.

zensavona
This is just what I need! -another- web based to do list.