wow never thought this would make the front page of HN. My great grandfather learned this method from Konstantin himself to help manage his debilitating asthma (back in the Soviet Union) and he kept it up daily into his 80s once we moved to the US. He did it daily for so long that he was able to hold his breath for almost 10 minutes if I remember correctly. He taught it to my grandma who then taught it to me when I was a kid but neither she nor I do it anymore unfortunately. Imagine an 11 year old sitting in a bedroom with his grandma doing breathing exercises. I honestly can't believe she got me to sit still longer than 5minutes to do it.
I highly recommend the book Breath by James Nestor. The only health/pop sci book I'd recommend. Doing breathwork has increased my HRV by ~10ms and lowered my respiratory rate when I sleep. I no longer snore as a result.
I was taught this method as a child to help with constantly blocked nasal passages. I think it helped! I'm still doing it, although not religiously.
I think the major part of what makes it useful is just adding resistance for breathing. It helps to train the breathing muscles, just like any other resistance training.
I have a close friend who got her pretty hardcore asthma and nasal issues under control over last year. Her quality of life improved dramatically after doing this thing – I tried some basic first exercises and I felt there is some practical resemblance to breathing meditation. Anyway, I am planning to get more into it and would definitely recommend it if you upper respiratory issues have strong negative effects on your life.
I have tried a lot of breathwork techniques lately and Buteyko is very good. One thing I always tell people that sit and slouch a lot is that your diaphragm is probably very tight (the same way your quads/hamstrings/etc can get tight). breathing exercises are very good for loosening it up, which, at least for me, have had a very positive impact on my health and wellbeing.
Buteyko is helping me manage thoracic outlet syndrome (I think; haven't had a diagnosis). My main symptom was a jarring feeling in my head when walking. Went from months where walking even a short distance gave me very mild concussion symptoms, to walking and running 12 miles in a day without issue, and the only difference seemed to be the way I was breathing.
Edit - a couple of other things possibly helped around the same time, so I'm not sure if I ever isolated the effect of breathing. But it definitely felt like it was a significant part of it.
>Strictly nasal breathing during physical exercise is another key element of the Buteyko method.
This seems like extreme nonsense. How light would you have to exercise to only breathe through your nose? I had an ex gf that tried to do this when we would go running and it was a disaster.
People who hyperventilate exhale too much carbon dioxide, which disrupts the acid/alkaline balance of the blood and makes it harder for the body to use the oxygen available to it.
The Apollo capsules were originally spec'd to use a mixed gas atmosphere. When the capsule got too heavy they switched to using a pure-O2 atmosphere. After the Apollo 1 fire they switched to using an atmospheric mix (80/20 N2/O2) at launch, which gradually changed to pure oxygen as the flights progressed.
Treatment with pure oxygen is not helpful for sick people:
Full disclosure: my mother runs a practice in NYC and implements Buteyko a lot with patients. It’s called HappyMyo and I helped her set up the website.
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I think Buteyko suffers from a marketing problem wherein it sounds really “eastern medicine”. I think it actually can be super beneficial to people, assuming they have the patience and discipline to commit to it for many months. It’s not easy and I think the success rate is so high because the people that seek it out are pretty determined.
I strongly encourage people research myofunctional therapy also if you snore/have sleep issues or find yourself out of breath often. It’s like physical therapy for your airway where you do lots of exercises regularly over months. I’m not even trying to advertise here, just trying to spread the word in case it helps someone.
Isn't its opposite condition, namely hypoventilation, particularly while sleeping, a more serious and common condition? Hypoventilation would lead to high blood bicarbonate which causes immediate problems.
I used to do Buteyko breathing exercises. The main idea is that over breathing results in a loss of co2 and less co2 in the body results in less oxygen being released from the blood due to the Bohr Effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_effect.
> The Buteyko method is not widely supported in the medical community, in part due to the lack of research supporting the theory that hyperventilation and hypocapnia causes disease,[7] with one review noting the absence of convincing evidence to indicate that trying to change asthmatics' carbon dioxide level is either "desirable or achievable."
The comment about it being neither desirable nor achievable is so funny to me! It really walks the line between complete dismissal and polite confusion.
Yes, i have read James Nestor's book "Breath" and did not find it illuminating.
A better way is to read some good books explaining the techniques of Pranayama. There are plenty (the two books "Prana and Pranayama", "Prana Vidya" published by Yoga Publications Trust, Munger, Bihar, India are good) so buy a few which appeal to you.
Here are some suggestions (based on my practice);
1) Do not practise the breathing exercises when you are feeling hungry, too full, tired, hyper, sleepy etc. Your practice should be done only when you are feeling comfortable and calm.
2) Do the exercises in a well ventilated place.
3) Do not do any breath holding exercises in the beginning for at least a few months. You should only practise inhalation/exhalation with various lengths and force as prescribed in the techniques.
4) Generally, the ratio of lengths of Inhalataion:Exhalation should be 1:2
5) Generally, Inhalation/Exhalation should be "subtle" and in a "thin stream" unless the technique calls for force, but should not hurt the nostrils.
6) Both before and after the practice massage your whole body lightly with your hands; particularly the forehead, eyebrow ridge, temples, and the scalp.
7) The following techniques are enough to give you immediate benefits; a) Kapalabhati b) Bhastrika c) Nadi shodana (alternate nostril breathing) d) Deep Inhalation through the Nose followed by slow Exhalation through the Nose e) Deep Inhalation through the Nose followed by slow Exhalation through the Mouth.
Note: The first two will clear your sinuses/nostrils and energize you making the subsequent ones easy, the third one will stabilize and integrate you, and the last two return you to relaxed and calm mode.
Finally, you can use a Blood Pressure Monitor/Pulse Oximeter/Spirometer etc. to monitor/measure your physiological parameters both before and after practice.
Anecdata- I did this as a 13 year old in the 90s. My old man came upon it after I was repeatedly ending up in hospital in Australia with asthma as a kid. I think there was a presentation in a local scout hall!
I didn’t understand the history at the time - but it stopped me going to hospital, I ended up being able to do a controlled hold (no discomfort) of around 1:30 min and a max hold of just shy of 5 mins.
So for me it had a big impact.
I stopped in my 20s and now I am no where near able to get those numbers.
I practiced the Buteyko method for many years when I was in states of high anxiety and frequent panic attacks, and it was incredibly helpful. I had a syndrome called new daily persistent headache, which means a sudden-onset headache that becomes constant from that instant forward, as in 24/7, for years. It's hard for people who haven't experienced that to understand I mean that literally. Buteyko breathing was the only thing that ever cut down on that headache, and a couple times I was able to suspend it for an hour or two, which when you have a literally constant headache for years, is a big deal.
My big takeaway from it was that breathing and neurological state are deeply connected and actually relaxed, natural, healthy breathing (and the corresponding state of the brain and nervous system) is something that most people have probably never even experienced unfortunately. We all think our state is normal, but I assure you, it is very far from the state where your control pause is 40s-60s or more, it's a radically different experience.
Also the nuance of what the control pause and how to measure it correctly is lost on I would say, even most people who attempt to learn Buteyko. The control pause is how long you can, under normal breathing, suspend breath with zero discomfort, and then prefectly resume normal breathing without any change from before. If you took a bigger breath to start, or when you start breathing again it's even slightly heavier, it's not a control pause measurement, it becomes an ego metric juiced to make you feel better about a number while avoiding the disappointing facts.
Buteyko claimed that healthy breathing had a 40+ second control pause. Which if you think about the real meaning and how to measure it, is a super long time. And I got there sometimes, it's a major learning experience about what deep alignment and relaxation of the brain/nerves can really feel like.
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[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 39.7 ms ] threadI think the major part of what makes it useful is just adding resistance for breathing. It helps to train the breathing muscles, just like any other resistance training.
From the "Medical Evidence" section, it seems I'm not missing much.
Edit - a couple of other things possibly helped around the same time, so I'm not sure if I ever isolated the effect of breathing. But it definitely felt like it was a significant part of it.
Carbon Dioxide as a Stimulant for Respiratory Function —https://blog.supplysideliberal.com/post/2020/7/28/carbon-dio...
This seems like extreme nonsense. How light would you have to exercise to only breathe through your nose? I had an ex gf that tried to do this when we would go running and it was a disaster.
Space-cabin Atmospheres: Oxygen toxicity (1964) (google.com) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25883728
The Haldane Effect and the Bohr Effect are the central findings that explain the transportation and exchange of carbon dioxide and oxygen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldane_effect / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_effect
People who hyperventilate exhale too much carbon dioxide, which disrupts the acid/alkaline balance of the blood and makes it harder for the body to use the oxygen available to it.
The Apollo capsules were originally spec'd to use a mixed gas atmosphere. When the capsule got too heavy they switched to using a pure-O2 atmosphere. After the Apollo 1 fire they switched to using an atmospheric mix (80/20 N2/O2) at launch, which gradually changed to pure oxygen as the flights progressed.
Treatment with pure oxygen is not helpful for sick people:
Mortality/morbidity: acutely ill adults liberal vs. conservative Oxygen Tx (2018) (thelancet.com) - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22993262
I typed up some notes about oxygen toxicity: https://www.taxiwars.org/2021/06/folly-medical-hyperventilat...
Medicine decided that the antidote to oxygen toxicity didn't need to be used anymore in the mid-1950's.
—
I think Buteyko suffers from a marketing problem wherein it sounds really “eastern medicine”. I think it actually can be super beneficial to people, assuming they have the patience and discipline to commit to it for many months. It’s not easy and I think the success rate is so high because the people that seek it out are pretty determined.
I strongly encourage people research myofunctional therapy also if you snore/have sleep issues or find yourself out of breath often. It’s like physical therapy for your airway where you do lots of exercises regularly over months. I’m not even trying to advertise here, just trying to spread the word in case it helps someone.
links: Assorted research papers - https://happymyo.com/2024/02/11/research-papers-on-omt/
A sample of what the exercises look like, I am not affiliated with this site and these are the ones without props - https://www.singhealth.com.sg/tests-procedures/myofunctional...
The comment about it being neither desirable nor achievable is so funny to me! It really walks the line between complete dismissal and polite confusion.
Yes, i have read James Nestor's book "Breath" and did not find it illuminating.
A better way is to read some good books explaining the techniques of Pranayama. There are plenty (the two books "Prana and Pranayama", "Prana Vidya" published by Yoga Publications Trust, Munger, Bihar, India are good) so buy a few which appeal to you.
Here are some suggestions (based on my practice);
1) Do not practise the breathing exercises when you are feeling hungry, too full, tired, hyper, sleepy etc. Your practice should be done only when you are feeling comfortable and calm.
2) Do the exercises in a well ventilated place.
3) Do not do any breath holding exercises in the beginning for at least a few months. You should only practise inhalation/exhalation with various lengths and force as prescribed in the techniques.
4) Generally, the ratio of lengths of Inhalataion:Exhalation should be 1:2
5) Generally, Inhalation/Exhalation should be "subtle" and in a "thin stream" unless the technique calls for force, but should not hurt the nostrils.
6) Both before and after the practice massage your whole body lightly with your hands; particularly the forehead, eyebrow ridge, temples, and the scalp.
7) The following techniques are enough to give you immediate benefits; a) Kapalabhati b) Bhastrika c) Nadi shodana (alternate nostril breathing) d) Deep Inhalation through the Nose followed by slow Exhalation through the Nose e) Deep Inhalation through the Nose followed by slow Exhalation through the Mouth. Note: The first two will clear your sinuses/nostrils and energize you making the subsequent ones easy, the third one will stabilize and integrate you, and the last two return you to relaxed and calm mode.
Finally, you can use a Blood Pressure Monitor/Pulse Oximeter/Spirometer etc. to monitor/measure your physiological parameters both before and after practice.
https://breatheless.substack.com/
https://breatheless.gumroad.com/
https://x.com/breathelesss
I didn’t understand the history at the time - but it stopped me going to hospital, I ended up being able to do a controlled hold (no discomfort) of around 1:30 min and a max hold of just shy of 5 mins.
So for me it had a big impact.
I stopped in my 20s and now I am no where near able to get those numbers.
My big takeaway from it was that breathing and neurological state are deeply connected and actually relaxed, natural, healthy breathing (and the corresponding state of the brain and nervous system) is something that most people have probably never even experienced unfortunately. We all think our state is normal, but I assure you, it is very far from the state where your control pause is 40s-60s or more, it's a radically different experience.
Also the nuance of what the control pause and how to measure it correctly is lost on I would say, even most people who attempt to learn Buteyko. The control pause is how long you can, under normal breathing, suspend breath with zero discomfort, and then prefectly resume normal breathing without any change from before. If you took a bigger breath to start, or when you start breathing again it's even slightly heavier, it's not a control pause measurement, it becomes an ego metric juiced to make you feel better about a number while avoiding the disappointing facts.
Buteyko claimed that healthy breathing had a 40+ second control pause. Which if you think about the real meaning and how to measure it, is a super long time. And I got there sometimes, it's a major learning experience about what deep alignment and relaxation of the brain/nerves can really feel like.