Right. This guy hasn't looked at any Windows 8 hardware. You CAN'T use a mouse with an iPad. Windows 8 is touch enabled, meaning either mouse or touch.
Basically, he's saying that Microsoft has a better product, he just doesn't know he's saying it yet.
This makes no sense. At all. Not only is the authors experience specifically not about Windows 8 (spoiler: it's an iPad with a keyboard), but his complaint doesn't even apply to the devices he's calling out.
> The convertibles take the idea even further: these are tablets to which you can easily attach a rigid keyboard and then have a laptop-like device but that then doesn't have a touchpad or nipple mouse, it's all touch driven.
I haven't seen a single Windows 8 device demoed yet that comes with a keyboard but without a dedicated pointing device (either a trackpad or trackpoint, or a mouse for some all-in-ones). Convertible tablets still have a trackpad. Even Sony's little slider has a trackpoint.
> Microsoft itself is explicitly making a keyboard cover for their tablet, almost built-in, meant to be used like the set-up in the picture. From a minority use-case this mode of interacting is becoming a blessed paradigm.
The Touch Cover and Type Cover still have a trackpad built in.
If anything, this article is demonstrating why Windows 8 will be better for tablets (at least for "productivity"), because it doesn't have the problem he's describing.
I agree with you. I have an Asus Transformer that I use 99% of the time in laptop mode and never had any ergonomic issues with it because I just use the touchpad on it most of the time. As you mentioned, every Win8 hybrid I've seen includes some non-screen pointing device (touchpad, thinkpad nub, whatever).
So really this should be titled "Using an iPad as a laptop is a terrible idea, because iOS has no concept of a non-screen mouse-like input device, unlike Windows 8 and Android which do", but I guess that's getting a bit long.
Disclosure: friend of the author and article submitter
Let's say there are three use models for Windows 8:
-- pure tablet mode (horizontal touch only)
-- pure desktop mode (keyboard and mouse+trackpad only)
-- hybrid mode (vertical touch with keyboard and mouse+trackpad)
The first crop of machines designed specifically for Windows 8 are enabling that third "hybrid" mode. It's not just something they -can- do, it's one of their key selling points: traditional input PLUS vertical touch in a laptop-like form factor. Gestures, multiple-finger touch, the whole shebang.
Unless vertical touch is not going to be used whatsoever in hybrid mode, it's going to invoke a kind of physical strain that hasn't been seen in typical personal computer use.
So! Vertical touch is potentially problematic and it's only seen in two real-world scenarios: iPad+keyboard and (soon) shipping Windows 8 hardware.
> Unless vertical touch is not going to be used whatsoever in hybrid mode, it's going to invoke a kind of physical strain that hasn't been seen in typical personal computer use.
I don't think so. Switching between the touchscreen and the mouse/trackpad breaks up the repetition, and should probably reduce repetitive stress injuries. Instead of always reaching for the screen or always reaching for the mouse, you can do both, and more importantly, you can do whichever is more comfortable. In a vertical form factor, use of the touchscreen will undoubtedly be lower than use of a traditional pointing device, because it's not comfortable to reach for the touchscreen constantly. It is however comfortable to do so intermittently, and for some actions, direct screen manipulation feels more intuitive (especially on laptops when they're actually in your lap, and the "reach" is much smaller).
I'm sure that some people will get repetitive stress injuries from touchscreens, but it's definitely not a given that it will happen.
Disregarding whatever is happening with that metaphor -
All that's being put forth here: vertical touch has a different ergonomic profile, potentially a negative one, and it hasn't extensively been deployed in this industry until now.
The sole novel input scenario with Windows 8 and its first generation hardware is that it enables vertical touch. If nobody uses it at all, then it's just another laptop and no harm's done.
It's not that nobody uses it. I was meaning more that 3rd party vendors are the ones responsible for making sure it is safe if they put it in designs that Microsoft didn't officially support.
Unless the main author was intended it to be a PSA type thing to let consumers know that the more commonplace touchscreens will allow them to create ergonomic nightmares and that they should be as aware of it as they are of keyboard/mouse placement and chair height (In which case I agree whole heartedly.)
I have co-workers, who have their keyboards and mice too far away and suffer from shoulder strain from "stretching" for their peripherals - so the author has a point that the usage of Windows 8 that comes naturally will influence this strain on desktop/laptop scenarios, and could worsen with larger screens.
However, that setup he has there is looks very bad from an ergonomic standpoint, and he's asking for carpal tunnel trouble. For your workstation, you really need a good chair, one that adjusts to have your feet flat on the floor while keeping your elbows above your wrists while typing, and if at all possible adjustable height rests for your arms. A 2nd-hand Aeron chair is definitely, definitely worth your money. Your wrists will thank you. Also, the top of your monitor should be at eye level (stack books or whatever underneath if you're too cheap/broke for a stand), otherwise you will hunch your shoulders over and get upper back pain.
Listen to me, O Teenage Hackers, or one day when you are as ancient as I you will wish you had :-)
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[ 96.8 ms ] story [ 1117 ms ] threadThrough my experiance of using my iPad and keyboard in an unergomonical setup, I can conclude that Windows 8 will severly injure people.
Basically, he's saying that Microsoft has a better product, he just doesn't know he's saying it yet.
> The convertibles take the idea even further: these are tablets to which you can easily attach a rigid keyboard and then have a laptop-like device but that then doesn't have a touchpad or nipple mouse, it's all touch driven.
I haven't seen a single Windows 8 device demoed yet that comes with a keyboard but without a dedicated pointing device (either a trackpad or trackpoint, or a mouse for some all-in-ones). Convertible tablets still have a trackpad. Even Sony's little slider has a trackpoint.
> Microsoft itself is explicitly making a keyboard cover for their tablet, almost built-in, meant to be used like the set-up in the picture. From a minority use-case this mode of interacting is becoming a blessed paradigm.
The Touch Cover and Type Cover still have a trackpad built in.
If anything, this article is demonstrating why Windows 8 will be better for tablets (at least for "productivity"), because it doesn't have the problem he's describing.
Disclosure: Microsoft employee
So really this should be titled "Using an iPad as a laptop is a terrible idea, because iOS has no concept of a non-screen mouse-like input device, unlike Windows 8 and Android which do", but I guess that's getting a bit long.
Let's say there are three use models for Windows 8:
-- pure tablet mode (horizontal touch only) -- pure desktop mode (keyboard and mouse+trackpad only) -- hybrid mode (vertical touch with keyboard and mouse+trackpad)
The first crop of machines designed specifically for Windows 8 are enabling that third "hybrid" mode. It's not just something they -can- do, it's one of their key selling points: traditional input PLUS vertical touch in a laptop-like form factor. Gestures, multiple-finger touch, the whole shebang.
Unless vertical touch is not going to be used whatsoever in hybrid mode, it's going to invoke a kind of physical strain that hasn't been seen in typical personal computer use.
So! Vertical touch is potentially problematic and it's only seen in two real-world scenarios: iPad+keyboard and (soon) shipping Windows 8 hardware.
I don't think so. Switching between the touchscreen and the mouse/trackpad breaks up the repetition, and should probably reduce repetitive stress injuries. Instead of always reaching for the screen or always reaching for the mouse, you can do both, and more importantly, you can do whichever is more comfortable. In a vertical form factor, use of the touchscreen will undoubtedly be lower than use of a traditional pointing device, because it's not comfortable to reach for the touchscreen constantly. It is however comfortable to do so intermittently, and for some actions, direct screen manipulation feels more intuitive (especially on laptops when they're actually in your lap, and the "reach" is much smaller).
I'm sure that some people will get repetitive stress injuries from touchscreens, but it's definitely not a given that it will happen.
The operating system is set up so that there is a big button on the touch screen that says 'fire'.
Would you then blame Windows for being an operating system in which some 3rd party manufacturer could use it in a way that would injure customers?
Microsoft has made sure (as noted by the main thread poster) that it's directly created windows products are ergonomically sound.
All that's being put forth here: vertical touch has a different ergonomic profile, potentially a negative one, and it hasn't extensively been deployed in this industry until now.
The sole novel input scenario with Windows 8 and its first generation hardware is that it enables vertical touch. If nobody uses it at all, then it's just another laptop and no harm's done.
Unless the main author was intended it to be a PSA type thing to let consumers know that the more commonplace touchscreens will allow them to create ergonomic nightmares and that they should be as aware of it as they are of keyboard/mouse placement and chair height (In which case I agree whole heartedly.)
Learn to use short-cuts I guess!
Sounds like there is an opening for someone to do something better. Like Windows 8.
However, that setup he has there is looks very bad from an ergonomic standpoint, and he's asking for carpal tunnel trouble. For your workstation, you really need a good chair, one that adjusts to have your feet flat on the floor while keeping your elbows above your wrists while typing, and if at all possible adjustable height rests for your arms. A 2nd-hand Aeron chair is definitely, definitely worth your money. Your wrists will thank you. Also, the top of your monitor should be at eye level (stack books or whatever underneath if you're too cheap/broke for a stand), otherwise you will hunch your shoulders over and get upper back pain.
Listen to me, O Teenage Hackers, or one day when you are as ancient as I you will wish you had :-)