> Today at CES, Intel unveiled Intel Core Ultra Series 3 processors, the first AI PC platform built on Intel 18A process technology that was designed and manufactured in the United States. Powering over 200 designs from leading, global partners, Series 3 will be the most broadly adopted and globally available AI PC platform Intel has ever delivered.
What in the world is this disaster of an opening paragraph? From the weird "AI PC platform" (not sure what that is) to the "will be the most broadly adopted and globally available AI PC platform" (is that a promise? a prediction? a threat?).
And you just gotta love the processor names "Intel Core Ultra Series 3 Mobile X9/X7"
If they are going to be the most broadly adopted AI platform where does that leave nvidia?
What is the AI PC platform? The experience on windows with windows 11 for just the basic UI of the start menu leaves a lot to be desired, is copilot adoption on windows that popular and does it take advantage of this AI PC platform?
Ryzen AI 400 mobile CPU chips are also releasing soon (though RocM is still blah I think)
Nvidia is still playing in the AI space despite all the noise of others on their AI offerings - and despite intel hype, Nividias margins at least recently have been incredible (ie, people still using them) so their platform hasn't yet been killed by intel's "most widely adoptoped" AI platform offering
What actually makes it an AI platform? Some tight integration of an intel ARC GPU, similar to the Apple M series processors?
They claim 2-5x performance for soem AI workloads. But aren't they still limited by memory? The same limitation as always in consumer hardware?
I don't think it matters much if you're limited by a nvidia gpu with ~max 16gb or some new intel processor with similar memory.
Nice to have more options though. Kinda wish the intel arc gpu would be developed into an alternative for self hosted LLMs. 70b models can be quite good but still difficult / slow to use self-hosted.
I will wait for the actual reviews from users. But I lost faith in Intel chips.
I was in CES2024 and saw snapdragon X elite chip running a local LLM (llama I believe). How did it turn out? Users cannot use that laptop except for running an LLM. They had no plans for translation layer like Apple Rosetta. Intel would be different for sure in that regard, but I just don't think that it will fly against Ryzen AI chips or Apple silicon.
It’s the final phase of Intel’s 5N4Y plan aimed at reaching parity with TSMC by the end of 2025, so it’s comparable to TSMC’s most advanced node N2 - [0]
As for comparison between the two: According to TechInsights, Intel's 18A could offer higher performance, whereas TSMC's N2 may provide higher transistor density - [1]
Xe3 GPU could be super super super great. Xe2 is already very strong, and this could really be an incredible breakout moment.
The CPU are also probably also fine!
Intel is so far ahead with consumer multi-chip. AMD has done amazing with having an IOD+CCD (io / core complex dies) chiplet split up (basically having a northbridge on package), but is just trying to figure out how in 2027's Medusa Point they're going to make a decent mainline APU multi-chip, can't keep pushing monolithic APU dies like they have (but they've been excellent FWIW). Like Intel's been doing with sweet EIMB, breaking the work up already, and hopefully is reaping the reward here. Stashing some tiny / very low power cores on the "northbridge" die is a genius move that saves incredible power for light use, a big+little+tiny design that let's the whole CCD shut down while work happens. Some very nice high core configs. Panther Lake could be super exciting.
18A with backside power delivery / "PowerVia" could really be a great leap for Intel! Nice big solid power delivery wins, that could potentially really help. My fingers are so very crossed. Really hope the excitement for this future arriving pans out, at least somewhat!
Their end of year Nova Lake with b(ig)LLC and an even bigger newer NPU6 (any new features beyond TOps?) is also exciting. I hope that also includes the incredible Thunderbolt/USB4 connectivity Intel has typically included on mobile chips but not holding my breath. Every single mobile part is capable of 4X Thunderbolt 5. That is sick. I really hope AMD realizes the ball is in it's court on interconnects at some point!! 20 Lane PCIe configs are also very nice to have for mobile.
Lunar Lake was quite good for what it was, very amazing well integrated chip, with great characteristics. As a 2+4 big/little it wasnt enough for developers. But great consumer chip. I think Intel's really going to have a great total system design with Panther Lake. Yes!
For a laptop chip the optimal dsesign is a single die. Apple, Qualcomm, and AMD agree on this. Chiplets are a last resort when you can't afford a single die due to yield or mask costs.
Yes. It's one of those things where even if you will never buy an Intel product, everybody in the world should be rooting for Intel to produce a real winner here.
Healthy Intel/GF/TSMC competition at the head of the pack is great for the tech industry, and the global economy at large.
Perhaps even more importantly, with armed conflict looming over Taiwan and TSMC... well, enough said.
“With Series 3, we are laser focused on improving power efficiency, adding more CPU performance, a bigger GPU in a class of its own, more AI compute and app compatibility you can count on with x86.” – Jim Johnson, Senior Vice President and General Manager, Client Computing Group, Intel
A laser focus on five things is either business nonsense or optics nonsense. Who was this written for?
Somewhat ironically if they were laser focused using infared lasers, wouldn't that imply the company was not very specific at all? Infared is something like 700 nm, which would be huge in terms of transistors
It's all the things Apple's processors are excellent at and AMD is not far behind Apple. So unless Intel delivers on all those things they can't hope to gain the market share they have lost.
I really, really want Intel to do well. I like their open oneAPI for unified CPU-GPU programming. It would be nice to have some competition/alternative against NVIDIA and TSMC.
But I wont be investing time and money again on Intel while the same anti-engineering beancounter board is still there. For example, they never owned the recent Raptor Lake serious hardware issues and they never showed clients how this will never happen again.
I wonder how much of the funding that led to this came from the Biden-era Chips & Science Act? I can't find a straight answer amid the AI slop and marketing hype about both of them.
30 comments
[ 4.1 ms ] story [ 54.0 ms ] threadWhat in the world is this disaster of an opening paragraph? From the weird "AI PC platform" (not sure what that is) to the "will be the most broadly adopted and globally available AI PC platform" (is that a promise? a prediction? a threat?).
And you just gotta love the processor names "Intel Core Ultra Series 3 Mobile X9/X7"
What is the AI PC platform? The experience on windows with windows 11 for just the basic UI of the start menu leaves a lot to be desired, is copilot adoption on windows that popular and does it take advantage of this AI PC platform?
Ryzen AI 400 mobile CPU chips are also releasing soon (though RocM is still blah I think)
Nvidia is still playing in the AI space despite all the noise of others on their AI offerings - and despite intel hype, Nividias margins at least recently have been incredible (ie, people still using them) so their platform hasn't yet been killed by intel's "most widely adoptoped" AI platform offering
>Series 3 will be the most broadly adopted and globally available AI PC platform Intel has ever delivered.
The true competitor is Ryzen AI, Nvidia doesn't produce these integrated CPU/GPU/AI products in the PC segment at all.
What actually makes it an AI platform? Some tight integration of an intel ARC GPU, similar to the Apple M series processors?
They claim 2-5x performance for soem AI workloads. But aren't they still limited by memory? The same limitation as always in consumer hardware?
I don't think it matters much if you're limited by a nvidia gpu with ~max 16gb or some new intel processor with similar memory.
Nice to have more options though. Kinda wish the intel arc gpu would be developed into an alternative for self hosted LLMs. 70b models can be quite good but still difficult / slow to use self-hosted.
I was in CES2024 and saw snapdragon X elite chip running a local LLM (llama I believe). How did it turn out? Users cannot use that laptop except for running an LLM. They had no plans for translation layer like Apple Rosetta. Intel would be different for sure in that regard, but I just don't think that it will fly against Ryzen AI chips or Apple silicon.
As for comparison between the two: According to TechInsights, Intel's 18A could offer higher performance, whereas TSMC's N2 may provide higher transistor density - [1]
[0] - https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-announ...
[1] - https://www.tomshardware.com/tech-industry/intels-18a-and-ts...
edit: fix typo
The CPU are also probably also fine!
Intel is so far ahead with consumer multi-chip. AMD has done amazing with having an IOD+CCD (io / core complex dies) chiplet split up (basically having a northbridge on package), but is just trying to figure out how in 2027's Medusa Point they're going to make a decent mainline APU multi-chip, can't keep pushing monolithic APU dies like they have (but they've been excellent FWIW). Like Intel's been doing with sweet EIMB, breaking the work up already, and hopefully is reaping the reward here. Stashing some tiny / very low power cores on the "northbridge" die is a genius move that saves incredible power for light use, a big+little+tiny design that let's the whole CCD shut down while work happens. Some very nice high core configs. Panther Lake could be super exciting.
18A with backside power delivery / "PowerVia" could really be a great leap for Intel! Nice big solid power delivery wins, that could potentially really help. My fingers are so very crossed. Really hope the excitement for this future arriving pans out, at least somewhat!
Their end of year Nova Lake with b(ig)LLC and an even bigger newer NPU6 (any new features beyond TOps?) is also exciting. I hope that also includes the incredible Thunderbolt/USB4 connectivity Intel has typically included on mobile chips but not holding my breath. Every single mobile part is capable of 4X Thunderbolt 5. That is sick. I really hope AMD realizes the ball is in it's court on interconnects at some point!! 20 Lane PCIe configs are also very nice to have for mobile.
Lunar Lake was quite good for what it was, very amazing well integrated chip, with great characteristics. As a 2+4 big/little it wasnt enough for developers. But great consumer chip. I think Intel's really going to have a great total system design with Panther Lake. Yes!
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/intel-double...
Healthy Intel/GF/TSMC competition at the head of the pack is great for the tech industry, and the global economy at large.
Perhaps even more importantly, with armed conflict looming over Taiwan and TSMC... well, enough said.
1) Battery life claims are specific and very impressive, possibly best in class 2) Performance claims are vague and uninspiring.
Either this is an awful press release or this generation isn't taking back the performance crown.
A laser focus on five things is either business nonsense or optics nonsense. Who was this written for?
Intel called it a “one-off mistake”, it’s the best mistake Intel ever made.
But I wont be investing time and money again on Intel while the same anti-engineering beancounter board is still there. For example, they never owned the recent Raptor Lake serious hardware issues and they never showed clients how this will never happen again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raptor_Lake#Instability_and_de... "Intel has decided not to halt sales or recall any units"
Update: Looks like Trump admin converted billions in unpaid CHIPS act grants into an equity in Intel last year https://techhq.com/news/intel-turnaround-strategy-panther-la...