Ask HN: Any Microsoft employees/devs here? What's happening to Microsoft?

111 points by thehamkercat ↗ HN
Why are they behaving like this since last year (trying very hard to burn themselves to the ground)

Latest example:

Microsoft Office renamed to “Microsoft 365 Copilot app” (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=46496465)

Not only the rename is absurd, but the page (office.com) looks heavily vibe-coded

51 comments

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Broken incentives, clueless trend-following leaders.

For the last year or so all orders from leadership have been "build more AI, show AI usage" even above things like stability and reliability.

There was no recognition from leadership over what use cases worked or not, and they appeared to believe their own hype.

To complement this, there is near to no long-term accountability for upper leadership for failure, so even as features underperform and strategy turns out to be a flop, they will continue to make millions a year, having layoffs every 6 months, and then acting surprised pikachu when morale is down and top engineers are looking to the door, since salary is barely competitive even if you are a top performer getting special stock awards.

Thanks for sharing. How long have these leaders stayed in MSFT? Were they strong engineers or PMs?
This is a hard question since there are a few patterns I've seen. Often they're long-term microsoft, more often PM than engineering, sometimes external. But I suspect that's not the dominating consistency, with a similar statement to technical skill. People who get to a high level here get there for the same incentives I mentioned above. They are risk averse, political, cowtow to their leadership, and know how to play the game.
From what I remember, Microsoft almost missed the Internet, then Gates turned the whole company to focus on it until they dominate in that space. They have since lost this dominance to Google, to the point of using Chromium for their own browser.

When Mobile came along, Microsoft completely missed. Ballmer laughed at the iPhone when it was released and didn’t take it seriously. By the time they started trying to make moves it was too little, too late. Mobile has shifted how people use computers and other than have a few apps and enterprise management, Microsoft is largely absent.

How much of this push behind AI is a desperate attempt not to miss another transformative shifts in the industry?

I suspect there's some truth in that, but I suspect it's very banal. Current leadership does not have the "political leeway" nor technical conviction or strategic insight to buck trends on instinct as past leadership did, and thus will err hard on trend following, especially given the foaming at the mouth the investing and thought leader population was doing around AI over the last few years.
> "They have since lost this dominance to Google"

A lot of which had to do with being under a consent decree.

> "When Mobile came along, Microsoft completely missed."

By "missed" you mean that MS was at the top of the mobile phone heap after defeating Palm Computing when the iPhone came out and swept Windows Mobile, Palm, Research In Motion and everyone else away.

I expect the GP was referring to missing the boat in responding to the iPhone after it swept away Windows Mobile.

Microsoft was late to respond, eventually bought Danger and released the Kin phone before cancelling it within weeks, and only released Windows Phone in 2010 a solid 3 years after the iPhone release.

Windows Phone was actually pretty nice to use, but they were already too late to the scene and didn't have a chance to steal ground from iPhone or android who already had solid app ecosystems.

That still isn't missing the boat. The pivot to the improved UI in Windows Mobile 6.5, the last of the old school Windows CE based releases, and skins by OEMs like HTC was IIRC in response to the iPhone's successful UI innovations.

And let's not forget that Google specifically interfered with access to their services on Windows Phone to hamstring it.

Huh? MS did ok in the nascent consumer market. RIM owned commercial, completely.

I had an iPaq in 2004 when we got married. It was like living in the future, where the future was a scaled down Windows 98 box. We took a one month road trip and was able to Priceline hotels on the road as we explored. Amazing device but not an iPhone.

Ballmer was so butthurt about iPhone he would berate people who appeared before him with one. As a customer, my boss and I were invited to a meeting with high level Microsoft people and asked to not carry iPhones out of respect.

>>since salary is barely competitive even if you are a top performer getting special stock awards

People sitting outside FANG/NAMAMA still drool over those barely competitive salaries you speak of.

My reason for saying that was not to say the employees are not well-paid in an absolute sense. It's that the reality is that caliber of employee has options, and Microsoft does not work to retain them, which results in undesirable (from the company's perspective) attrition.
I'm more interested in knowing the status of the kernel team. Is there any chance that there is an outflow of talents so they are OK to hire people who are not exactly qualified 100% for professional kernel development? So that I might get a chance to snug in...:P
I interviewed at Azure the same time I interviewed at GCP and the former was an absolute shit show. It was comically bad.
GCP does random layoffs of senior people to screw them from promotions and TC.

Get out of MAANG. There is no decent one, only different flavors of evil and abuse. Integrity is worth more than money. Form a worker-owned co-op consultancy with other decent people and create enduring stability.

Just the other day had to update our offering on the Azure marketplace. It had been a while. What a complete shitshow. From getting logged it (!!!!) to figuring out the new permissions needed to publish. The ui/ux was astoundingly horrible. It blows me away anyone uses this shite.
Nobody wants to use Copilot voluntarily, therefore it's going to be pushed down deep into Microsoft customers' throats.
I was at Microsoft in 2007. We were told to say "Bing it" but everyone was using Google to look stuff up for work.
Our company at the time forced us to use Bing as the default search engine, so people started searching “google” on Bing to just to get back to Google. We were told “they’re both search engines, just use this one”, just like a person who bought an iPhone from a dollar store.
Loosing them in the process.

Office 365 app suddenly is not called that. It's called copilot. When you open it it just shows chat. No files, no word, no documents. You have to try hard to find your files back.

So suddenly an app that you used to edit word documents and print PDFs is completely gone with no warning. Word doesn't exist. Even Office doesn't exist :D How are clients supposed to navigate that shitshow?

They're supposed to chat, not navigate, no?
Also Excel is now called Incel (per Reddit, ymmv).
Did you forget to include the punchline "often interprets something else as dates"?
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>Why are they behaving like this since last year (trying very hard to burn themselves to the ground)

Since last year? Burning themselves into the ground has been their M.O. for the last decade and a half, at least.

I'd argue enshitification started in earnest with Windows 8.

AI just enables them to speed up the process dramatically.

Brand new CNC mills from Hurco use Windows 7 still, this is the brand new specs on their website.
Its 2014 levels of total distrust inside the company. Morale has been on the floor since end of 24, due to closing offices, laying off people. Contractors are being left in limbo more and more often.

Half of the people are just talking about layoffs and other are keeping thier mouth shut. There is sense that execs are making one bad decision after another. Xbox division knows this very well, the trust in that division is near zero, but now it has spread to even the orgs which were doing decently well.

Product quality is also completely dogshit/dogslop, we have done nothing in last 2 years except making our products worse. We do hear reports of boomer companies moving to Apple every now and then, and these rumours are increasing. Windows 11 is a disaster, Copilot is an convenience no one asked for. Users are contacting support every day asking how to disable all these features but execs keep ignoring users. The consensus among top guys is that customer is wrong and we need to teach them.

Trusting stock market more than the customers is now the industry standard.

Sounds like AI fanatics are running the show.
Regarding the last paragraph, users are now unpaid beta testers and products instead of … users. But again maybe it makes sense when a company is not making money in the retail market.
A classic cafe of enshittification. We’re not the customer anymore, we are the product.
One of my teams runs a Microsoft product that’s been in place for a long time and has been an amazing product falling on hard times.

We had a service impacting issue and went through the typical Premier/Unified support gaslighting exercise. We finally escalated it to a batshit level and got to a real engineer. The dude was about the retire, was fed up, and knew exactly what was wrong. He claimed to have a fix pending approval that had been held up by his chain. We ended up getting a hot fix after a lot of drama with account leadership.

I was grateful to the guy, but kind of shocked that morale in that group was so bad. I used to be acquainted with a few people there over the years and every single one of them was either laid off or left. I never heard of anything like that at Microsoft at all, especially as a customer.

What sane person even cares about that monster and their shitty products today anyway? Unless hands are tied by work or contract.

The sooner they drown the better for everyone and the industry.

About 70% of the world, and game studios, thus Proton.
Is everyone forgetting the words: "too big to fail"
After reading Nadella's Hit Refresh on how he revived Microsoft, what's happening now is a 180 degree turn from that. I have no idea what's going on.
There are rumors of more big layoffs in Jan.
Well, this year might not be the Linux's desktop but it definitely will be Windows' non desktop.
It's a disarmingly simple sillygism actually:

1. Saying "AI" makes stock price go up

2. Make all things AI

3. Stock price will go even more up

As for everything else, subordinated to the aforementioned.

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No vision.

Windows is utter ass.

They don't even use their own browser, languages, or OS half the time because they're so bad.

I don't use it but stuff like VS Code is a point of light but they run it like an internal project, and will drive it into the ground, just like GitHub.

Just FYI, "Microsoft Office" wasn't renamed, it was "Microsoft 365" that was renamed. You can still download the Office suite and it's still called Office.

What Microsoft did do was make is super-confusing to people about what they changed and what is called what.

See: https://www.theverge.com/tech/856149/microsoft-365-office-re...

I got so pissed when office.com redirected to copilot. It doesn’t even do what the old office.com did.
My elderly dad is suffering from cognitive decline but likes to play computer games.

I realize he can't even open Steam without getting bombarded by ads from MSN in the start menu.

I'm angry at Microsoft for this. Instead of being good stewards of "computing", they provide an environment that's poorly designed and exploitative.

Shame on the people at Microsoft responsible.

Leadership and decision makers or product folks are out of touch. This isn’t new. They have always been that way.
This post is bringing out the MS haters and most don't know what they're talking about. MS took the initial lead in AI and it shows in their products. It was Google that was left in the starting blocks but they have thankfully recovered. Competition is good for all.
An innovative strategy combining AI, layoffs, low-cost labor, and a surprisingly optional QA team...