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I don't like Bootstrap.

5 points by mcartyem ↗ HN
I need to fight it to undo rather than do.

It doesn't center elements, spans have an extra 20px on the right, and it sets elements at specific heights and widths without me wanting it to.

29 comments

[ 6.2 ms ] story [ 76.5 ms ] thread
deveshz
Everyone is using Bootstrap these days. Have you tried this: http://imperavi.com/kube/
mcartyem
I just looked at it and it seems worse. It doesn't show examples of how it does the things it does. You can't even tell what to undo.
[dead] bizlia
I personally haven't used it but I really like it. You can customize it to your liking though...
eduardordm
When I first read "I need to fight it to undo...". I thought "yep, I regret using it too".

After a second thought: It saved me a lot of time. It helped me create a "pattern" when creating documents and, at the end, you can just remove it and implement the classes from scratch.

That said, yes, you do like bootstrap. :D

duiker101
I think the idea of bootstrap was to have something to quickly setup a website for a concept or MVP, but then it became a "standard" for larger project and extended implementations. That is not what it was made for. It is not to achieve a perfect design, is to build something quickly. If you want something more robust to build on you should really look somewhere else.
timkly
Its a problem with CSS frameworks these days (especially bootstrap). No longer are they the starting point for a design but instead they are now considered the final solution.
mcartyem
If that's true, it's close to saying one built an MVP with the goal of it not going anywhere.
mcartyem
How do people like http://960.gs ?
krapp
skeleton + twig + laravel = no complaints.
bmelton
I actively dislike 960, and instead prefer Skeleton[1] which does the same thing as 960 but (in my opinion) better and more cleanly.

The only major difference is syntax, though skeleton's approach is more semantically correct. Before you try it and start complaining though, I have no idea if it will center how you like.

[1] - http://getskeleton.com/

flexxaeon
Bootstrap isn't for everyone/everything.

Never gonna put it on any front facing websites. But for alphas and admin areas, Bootstrap is a blessing from heaven.

mcartyem
Am I the only person on earth that noticed Bootstrap's problem of not centering anything?

How do people handle this?

seiji
Examples?
mcartyem
Basically:

  <div class="row">
    <div class="span6">
       Hello
    </div>
    <div class="span6">
       Uncentered World
    </div>
  </div>
and compare it with:

  <center>
    Centered
  </center>
Note there are extra 20px at the end.

Resizing the window makes everything drag to the left. So much for having a grid.

seiji
make sure your rows are in containers.

  container
    row
      span6
      span6
mcartyem
Rows being in containers fixed the resizing issue. But not the centering!
mcartyem
Moreover, a container forces elements in it to stay contained while I don't want them to be contained.

Why can't get row and span work without a container?

tangue
Bootstrap has no problem with centering juste apply the pagination-centered class on the element you want to center.

... <center>

    Centered

  </center>
<div class="container pagination-centered">

Centered too

</div>

...

span6 creates an element of width 460px which like all elements starting with span has a margin of 20px on the left. It's not a way of centering elements.

corny
I've lately been using a combination of HTML5 Boilerplate and Chris Coyier's "don't overthink it" grid system to start a project. The result is just a basic prototype/wireframe. It's not too hard to skin and make nice. Adding modules later from Bootstrap and Foundation, as needed, is not hard to do. I much prefer that than starting with one large framework and hoping I'll have the inclination to refactor later.

I'm normally not a fan of grid systems but Chris Coyier's grid system uses percents instead of pixels and is very lightweight. http://css-tricks.com/dont-overthink-it-grids/

michaelbuddy
are you me, because I've been thinking the exact same thing. the centering thing had me laughing too. I had this shock about me. 5000 lines and no centered div auto margin. eek.
jameswyse
I'm moving away from bootstrap too, it's nice in the beginning but when you start implementing your own design you end up having to override everything and it just seems like a waste of time.

For my latest project I just started from scratch by building my own framework using Stylus, that way I can also avoid messing up my HTML with loads of additional classes.

EnderMB
Bootstrap is in a class of its own for exactly what it is supposed to do; to allow a user to quickly set up a concept or prototype site.

The reason why I don't like Bootstrap is because many people use it like a free design template. A seasoned designer or developer can spot a Bootstrap site straight away because they're mostly used straight into production because "it follows best design practices". The huge rise in extensions and colour themes to Bootstrap only prove this.

ProblemFactory
Bootstrap as a "free design template" is great, when hiring a professional graphic designer and CSS expert are not an option.

And even when it is, most restaurant websites in the world would be better off with a standard Bootstrap template rather than the horrid Flash+PDF designs that they currently use.

EnderMB
Sellotape is great when hiring a plumber isn't an option. It still doesn't make it a good solution when you want your sink to stop leaking.

It's comments like these that make me wish I could downvote. It's this mentality that leads to Bootstrap being abused in the way I mentioned above.