Anyone with half a brain can see it could be a good idea. Everything else is online, why shouldn't ID be? Better to send a validated token to companies doing KYC than actual PII. And that's before you get into the illegal immigration, right to work, etc.
I really don't understand the arguments against it. You don't think the State can't shut you down if you break the law already?
It sounds like they've dropped the digital ID part being mandatory, but not the digital right-to-work checks being mandatory. I suspect that the UK will end up building something like the US's E-Verify programme, which allows a number of documents to be checked against authoritative sources. It really wouldn't be that hard to build a service that in the first instance allowed you to generate a share code with a GBR passport much the same way people can generate share codes with their drivers licenses or UKVI accounts.
What I have a problem with is just how fragmented and broken the UK immigration system is when you have the misfortune of coming into contact with it. It's (like many such large systems worldwide) a set of policies and rules that have accumulated over time into something that is pathologically poorly thought out. I'm going through the process of renewing my spouse's visa (I'm British), and it's fractally awful -- we've just had a snarky email from our landlord who is worried that the right-to-rent permission is expiring, but it's not possible to apply for a renewal for the visa prior to 28 days before expiry of her current visa. I meet all the criteria to sponsor my spouse for renewal, but the evidentiary burden is insane (I've collected 400+ pages of documents so far). Nobody wants this. It is very expensive and difficult (probably >£10k per person until permanent residency in fees, not including legal expenses) to be compliant even if you meet the criteria, which just leads people falling out of status (to borrow an American term). The government (of all stripes) tries to be "tough" but the only lever it knows how to pull is to make the rules stricter, not making them better enforced or align with some meaningful policy agenda.
This farcical situation extends into the UK's broken citizenship model where there are 6 different types of nationality, none of which give any rights you can't build through a hodgepodge of other different statuses. As far as I know the UK is the only country in the world that permits dual nationality with itself!
A government online account which can generate verifiable credentials would probably be helpful in a broad sense but it wouldn't cure bad policy which is rampant in the UK immigration sector. I'd much rather have some kind of digital ID that's clear and authoritative rather than just hoping that Experian has my details right with no recourse if they're wrong.
Also Irish citizens in Britain have the same rights as British citizens (even voting), plus all the benefits of EU citizenship too. Brexit made us second class citizens in our own country. Good job everyone.
All this rigor for a country without an actual formalised constitution. I mean, maybe the government should work on that first and make sure it has a right to work there first?
> Unlike in most countries, no official attempt has been made to codify ... thus it is known as an uncodified constitution.
"... Labour MPs are growing increasingly frustrated with the government's U-turns.
Some had already been wary of defending controversial government policies to their constituents because they feared that the policy would inevitably be reversed."
which implies that the MPs are openly admitting that they don't state their personal opinions, merely parrot the party line, but are frustrated when they are required to abruptly change the things they claim to believe in.
What a farce. Members of parliament should have their OWN fucking views about things, and defend or debate those views on behalf of the people they represent.
Seen that the entire plan of the UK atm apparently relies on bringing in as many illegals as possible in the shortest time possible, I don't see how that'd be compatible with a mandatory digital ID.
When I lived in the UK in the early-mid 00s, I was really confused by how much of a digital backwater it was. Opening a bank account required several months of utility bills (on paper!) with my name as "proof of address". Taxes were paper only. Paper payslips. No concept of interacting with the government in any digital way. No concept of government ID other than a full size passport, which made the many silly age checks in pubs and stores rather laughable.
I'm sure things have gotten better, but I'll never forget how backwards it all seemed coming from puny Belgium.
The UK has had internet filing for self-assessment taxes since July 2000 [1]. I started doing freelance web consulting around them while at university and filed online. It was considerably easier than filing my taxes in the US is now! (Most people in the UK don't have to file taxes at all since the right amount of tax is withheld by their employer.)
While the UK might not have been the first, there was a big push to move government services online over the 2000s. I think this may have been easier than in other countries since so many services were run by post rather than requiring you to go to a particular government office.
Opening a bank account became much more difficult in the early 2000s because of the money laundering/terrorism financing legislation. It became a real pain for international students when I worked in a student union back then.
The liberal resistance to ID cards in Britain was more reasonable before it became required to prove your identity so often. Not having an ID card has become a bit of a pain now, especially for elderly people who may not have a driving licence or current passport.
I'm in the affected group because I'm a US citizen working in the UK. There's much more to the story because the UK has many digital ID aspects already in place-- such as for work visas and residence permits-- but these not coordinated into a whole.
What I experienced last year was many digital verification steps that were all required: open a UK bank account, sign up for a UK phone number, secure a UK residential postal address, apply for UK right-to-rent codes, generate a UK national insurance number, file for UK healthcare registration, and more.
Each step had different digital workflows and UI/UX. To traverse all these steps took hundreds of hours and a couple months wall time.
Many steps had catch-22s. The UK bank account needed a UK phone number, while the UK phone company needed a UK bank account. The UK payroll company needed a permanent residence, while the UK landlord needed UK payroll stubs. None of the steps had a quick simple way to digitally verify my UK work visa.
IMHO federation could be a big help here, such as for government agencies and government-approved businesses doing opt-in data sharing and ideally via APIs. For example, imagine each step can share its relevant information with other steps. This could make things more efficient, more accurate, and ideally more secure.
"There's much more to the story because the UK has many digital ID aspects already in place-- such as for work visas and residence permits-- but these not coordinated into a whole."
They're determined to bring it in and will attempt to gradually. You need an ID for so many things in the UK so it is a lie in some ways.
The point is that the government tried to sell this as helping against illegal immigration by enabling effective right to work checks and this was a blatant lie since it would not change anything: right to work checks are already carried put amd legal immigrants have eVisa that are checked online by employers.
It is obvious that the government is being deceitful. Noone wants ID cards except the Tony Blair Institute.
Can relate. The UK electronic eVisa app was pure garbage. The major redeeming feature of the UK civil service and the various regulatory quagmires is that they're effectively open source. You (or Claude) can read through their practice manuals or policies and find a work-around. But my goodness is it annoying until you figure that out. Another fascinating bit is you may think the various departments are connected but they are not. The nice looking UK Government Digital Service (GDS) Design System gives everything a veneer of connected competence, but under the bonnet, that slick UI signal is as reliable as a posh accent. Don't become a migrant if you don't have to.
I moved from the UK to Scandinavia, where there is a federated ID (BankID) that you use to access pretty much everything and it removes all this complexity that the UK has. I can't imagine life without such an easy system. One of the downsides is that there's a bit of a catch-22 to getting an ID in the first place but once you've managed that it's done.
A key difference is the relationship between the people and the government and the motivation behind creating a federated ID. There's definitely an element of governmental monitoring to the Scandinavian model but the relationship with the government is less adversarial than in the UK.
You could get a prepaid (pay as you go) SIM for £1 from any phone service shop in a minute.
Few years ago I could get a "Passport" account from HSBC without UK phone at all and without a proof of address, I was simply asked to show my employment contract to THW clerk.
And the rest -- in the UK lives many EU citizens who are used to having the ID cards and are used to their utility. Many are VASTLY superior to what Labour was trying to impose.
The thing is, there's a fundamental difference between these and the ID card UK's Labour wanted to introduce.
It wasn't to make things EASIER. If it was, you'd get a plastic with NFC, photo, perhaps UTR or NINo and a date of birth, with a storage to keep your Oyster card or other sort of ID. Its a solved and tried problem.
It wasn't to make things safer - otherwise you could use it to sign your documents with a certificate - securely, reading your ID by your phone. You could use your ID to ANONYMOUSLY (yes) confirm your age. Not only offline (when buying alcohol as a Muslim for example), but also online.
It was openly planned to be used as a tool of control and oppression. PM was claiming it will be easier to control the pesky immigrants (lying it will make impossible employing someone illegally - lying, because Right to Work scheme is in force right noe, and its also completely online).
It was supposed to be a bind, not a tool. Only online identifier is a nightmare waiting to happen for every single European with a settled status -- NOTHING to prove legal status except for computer saying "yay". People lost job, homes, got bounced off the border because "the computer" wrongly claimed they were not legally.
THIS is what it was supposed to be in the first place.
It's okay if you don't believe me, but in that case please look up three examples: lists if features of the Estonian, Dutch and Polish ID card, what things you can do with use of either, consider the convenience and safety, and THEN compare it with only-online solution touted by the Labour, their intended use and features. Not a list of the documents it will supposedly replace, but features.
And that in XXIst century with eIDAS 2.0 in force - so the best practices available to pick and use.
To get a UK phone number, is it not enough to get a tourist plan? Most places I’ve been have tourist SIM cards at the airport, and more recently tourist eSIM plans.
That's one advantage of the US' 1950s paper-based approach to everything, or at least as it was 20-odd years ago. As a non-US citizen I opened a bank account with barely any ID (no drivers license or phone number), they gave me a box of paper cheques that I had to look up online to figure out how to use because I had no idea what to do with them, I got an SSN (still not quite sure how I managed that), filed IRS tax returns, and somehow got a complete US identity and whatnot set up which seemed to be based mostly on the fact that everything was built around paper records and no-one talked to anyone else about what they had on file.
They are still trying to bring in digital ID. There are multiple attempts to push it. They still plan to try to push it as a convenience. They also plan a digital ID for children.
While that is great, the lobbyists who disguise as politicians who tried to sneak this in, need to permanently leave ALL affiliations to politics. Politics right now in the UK is just a lobbyist sleaze fest.
They became so bad so quickly and now all that's happening is more and more people swearing never to vote Labour again.
This is leaving the door open for Reform at the next election.
A useless government lacking any sort of leadership. At a stroke this would destroy illegal immigration if it was mandatory and tied to receiving benefits.
The Brits should be grateful that a government with such horrible ideas is comically incompetent. Sometimes just keeping the status quo is a good thing. Having a government that just constantly enacts legislation isn’t necessarily good.
A useless government is preferable to an even moderately competent tyrannical one.
36 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 72.3 ms ] threadFor whatever reason, Tony Blair's think tank is obsessed with this idea[1]. As I understand he still has a lot of influence over British politics.
[1] https://institute.global/digital-id-what-is-it-and-how-it-wo...
I really don't understand the arguments against it. You don't think the State can't shut you down if you break the law already?
What I have a problem with is just how fragmented and broken the UK immigration system is when you have the misfortune of coming into contact with it. It's (like many such large systems worldwide) a set of policies and rules that have accumulated over time into something that is pathologically poorly thought out. I'm going through the process of renewing my spouse's visa (I'm British), and it's fractally awful -- we've just had a snarky email from our landlord who is worried that the right-to-rent permission is expiring, but it's not possible to apply for a renewal for the visa prior to 28 days before expiry of her current visa. I meet all the criteria to sponsor my spouse for renewal, but the evidentiary burden is insane (I've collected 400+ pages of documents so far). Nobody wants this. It is very expensive and difficult (probably >£10k per person until permanent residency in fees, not including legal expenses) to be compliant even if you meet the criteria, which just leads people falling out of status (to borrow an American term). The government (of all stripes) tries to be "tough" but the only lever it knows how to pull is to make the rules stricter, not making them better enforced or align with some meaningful policy agenda.
This farcical situation extends into the UK's broken citizenship model where there are 6 different types of nationality, none of which give any rights you can't build through a hodgepodge of other different statuses. As far as I know the UK is the only country in the world that permits dual nationality with itself!
A government online account which can generate verifiable credentials would probably be helpful in a broad sense but it wouldn't cure bad policy which is rampant in the UK immigration sector. I'd much rather have some kind of digital ID that's clear and authoritative rather than just hoping that Experian has my details right with no recourse if they're wrong.
> existing checks, using documents such as biometric passports, will move fully online by 2029.
Well I guess that's good at least. I imagine they'll just assign people "digital passports" at some point and you just pay to get a paper copy.
> Unlike in most countries, no official attempt has been made to codify ... thus it is known as an uncodified constitution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_United_Kin...
"... Labour MPs are growing increasingly frustrated with the government's U-turns.
Some had already been wary of defending controversial government policies to their constituents because they feared that the policy would inevitably be reversed."
which implies that the MPs are openly admitting that they don't state their personal opinions, merely parrot the party line, but are frustrated when they are required to abruptly change the things they claim to believe in.
What a farce. Members of parliament should have their OWN fucking views about things, and defend or debate those views on behalf of the people they represent.
So I'm not surprised to see this trashed.
I'm sure things have gotten better, but I'll never forget how backwards it all seemed coming from puny Belgium.
While the UK might not have been the first, there was a big push to move government services online over the 2000s. I think this may have been easier than in other countries since so many services were run by post rather than requiring you to go to a particular government office.
Opening a bank account became much more difficult in the early 2000s because of the money laundering/terrorism financing legislation. It became a real pain for international students when I worked in a student union back then.
The liberal resistance to ID cards in Britain was more reasonable before it became required to prove your identity so often. Not having an ID card has become a bit of a pain now, especially for elderly people who may not have a driving licence or current passport.
[1] https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fascinating-facts-about-s...
What I experienced last year was many digital verification steps that were all required: open a UK bank account, sign up for a UK phone number, secure a UK residential postal address, apply for UK right-to-rent codes, generate a UK national insurance number, file for UK healthcare registration, and more.
Each step had different digital workflows and UI/UX. To traverse all these steps took hundreds of hours and a couple months wall time.
Many steps had catch-22s. The UK bank account needed a UK phone number, while the UK phone company needed a UK bank account. The UK payroll company needed a permanent residence, while the UK landlord needed UK payroll stubs. None of the steps had a quick simple way to digitally verify my UK work visa.
IMHO federation could be a big help here, such as for government agencies and government-approved businesses doing opt-in data sharing and ideally via APIs. For example, imagine each step can share its relevant information with other steps. This could make things more efficient, more accurate, and ideally more secure.
They're determined to bring it in and will attempt to gradually. You need an ID for so many things in the UK so it is a lie in some ways.
It is obvious that the government is being deceitful. Noone wants ID cards except the Tony Blair Institute.
A key difference is the relationship between the people and the government and the motivation behind creating a federated ID. There's definitely an element of governmental monitoring to the Scandinavian model but the relationship with the government is less adversarial than in the UK.
You could get a prepaid (pay as you go) SIM for £1 from any phone service shop in a minute.
Few years ago I could get a "Passport" account from HSBC without UK phone at all and without a proof of address, I was simply asked to show my employment contract to THW clerk.
And the rest -- in the UK lives many EU citizens who are used to having the ID cards and are used to their utility. Many are VASTLY superior to what Labour was trying to impose.
The thing is, there's a fundamental difference between these and the ID card UK's Labour wanted to introduce.
It wasn't to make things EASIER. If it was, you'd get a plastic with NFC, photo, perhaps UTR or NINo and a date of birth, with a storage to keep your Oyster card or other sort of ID. Its a solved and tried problem.
It wasn't to make things safer - otherwise you could use it to sign your documents with a certificate - securely, reading your ID by your phone. You could use your ID to ANONYMOUSLY (yes) confirm your age. Not only offline (when buying alcohol as a Muslim for example), but also online.
It was openly planned to be used as a tool of control and oppression. PM was claiming it will be easier to control the pesky immigrants (lying it will make impossible employing someone illegally - lying, because Right to Work scheme is in force right noe, and its also completely online).
It was supposed to be a bind, not a tool. Only online identifier is a nightmare waiting to happen for every single European with a settled status -- NOTHING to prove legal status except for computer saying "yay". People lost job, homes, got bounced off the border because "the computer" wrongly claimed they were not legally.
THIS is what it was supposed to be in the first place.
It's okay if you don't believe me, but in that case please look up three examples: lists if features of the Estonian, Dutch and Polish ID card, what things you can do with use of either, consider the convenience and safety, and THEN compare it with only-online solution touted by the Labour, their intended use and features. Not a list of the documents it will supposedly replace, but features.
And that in XXIst century with eIDAS 2.0 in force - so the best practices available to pick and use.
But no, Britain gonna Britain...
A useless government is preferable to an even moderately competent tyrannical one.
What they have done is drop the requirement for a single specific digital ID.
However they haven't dropped the requirement for a digital ID to work - you just have options between more than one digital ID.