Unfortunately no one will care because it’s not their city, they are told to wait until midterms, the media is failing to report or cover much of what is going on and half the country thinks it’s ok because their party is behind it
I fully expect this article to drop off the front page due to flagging in 3…2…1… like every other US politics story that gets posted on this site.
It’s for sure one of the biggest blind spots of this community, which should come as no surprise but is still a shame as it would be nice to have the high level of discourse we can expect from other topics applied to this period that could easily be, for many of us, the most significant geopolitical event of our lifetimes.
I’m curious if that’s a topic the mods have any thoughts on.
As a non-American, I wonder how effective these measures are. Way too often I hear that "ICE abducted ... an American citizen". Are these individual cases amplified by the media to attack federal government's reputation or are these a significant percentage of all arrests? In which case, why is ICE doing it, they have absolutely no way of turning such arrests into a positive for themselves? How easy is it for an American or a legal alien to produce documentation proving their legal status - can it be that the fact(?) that many legal residents don't possess the necessary documentation at all times leads to the majority of such arrests/detentions/"abductions".
I know that many here will question ICE's mandate to act even against immigrants who don't have their paperwork in order, but this is another question.
Net migration to the US is negative for the first time in 50 years [1] so seems way more effective than whatever was done before. As for arresting citizens - federal agents arrest ~100K people per year[2], if the often cited in these threads research to be believed then most of them are citizens as illegal migrants don't do nearly as much crime. Being a citizen does not make one immune to the federal law enforcement, even the Department of Education has armed agents, which arrest citizens, even if they don't go to school [3].
Thoughtful observers recognize that the real issue is the lack of accountability transparent to the American public. When regular people mess up at their job, there’s a proportionate response to that mistake. When ICE / CBP murders, rapes, disappears, tortures, silences, intimidates, etc. etc. there are no consequences. There is no accountability. In fact, there is encouragement! “You’re doing a public service!” they’re told.
This is by design. You’re asking the wrong questions out of some imagined “higher tier of thinking” and it’s only beneficial to those in power.
I know this might be hard for some people to hear, but I want to share my thoughts to promote, in a small way, a common understanding of different perspectives.
My genuine trouble with this kind of post is that I don’t know if it is true.
How do I know the guy isn’t trying to get donations for local groups? Is that an odd question to ask after the dominant lens through which we analyze action is “cui bono?”
How do I know that this didn’t come from some Russian intel group? Is that an odd question to ask after Russian interference is all over the media during our elections?
It’s the problem of our society today: we don’t share a common view of reality.
Trump is forcing this to be a Game of Thrones "you win or you die" situation: there is no way out of this with a 60:40 solution, the only possible outcome is complete victory for one side, utter defeat for the other.
My prediction is that the federal policing will ramp up considerably in blue states, which in turn will cause more clashes. Sooner or later POTUS will invoke insurrection act.
In any case, either he'll try to cancel midterm elections altogether, or he'll have ICE and National Guard roaming and harassing voters when that time comes around. Strategically in very blue or purple areas.
If that works for the midterms, no doubt we'll see more of the same for the presidential election.
My experience is quite a bit different than what the author is citing. I live just outside of Minneapolis, and have a bunch of friends who live in the city. I have never heard anyone express concern about what ICE is doing. The biggest worries are around commute disruptions due to protesters. It might be because this is a self-selected circle of white collar types, but I can say the report in this story is not universal.
Cover of today's StarTribune (Greenland article at bottom), from the top down:
• Our community is in crisis
• Rumors, anxiety spread beyond the Twin Cities
• Citizens sue, seek ruling to rein in agents' tactics
• DHS' Minnesota presence dwarfs largest metro police forces
• Review: No widespread illegal voting by migrants
• Trump cheers protesters in Iran, but not Minnesota
"I have never heard anyone express concern about what ICE is doing."
"heard" and "express concern" commonly do a lot of heavy lifting in anecdata:
• Include or exclude social media comments from friends?
• Only include people who have spoken to you directly?
• Speak often or infrequently to others?
• Include or exclude content that you have seen that you trust?
• Are part of a large/small circle of family/friends?
• Concern or only experience causing concern?
• General opinion or on specific available information?
• etc., etc.
Without being more specific, "heard" and "express concern" don't mean much, and with specific qualification, are easily manipulated.
I also live just outside of Minneapolis. I have white-appearance family members whose heritage traces literally back to the Mayflower that have been harrassed while working from home, and literally dozens of others expressing concern due to those in their circle being harassed, and many others expressing concern due to viewing media that they trust.
In thinking just now, it's hard to think of anyone not expressing concern, on "both sides", partly because I am hearing expressions on the topic from a tremendous number of persons.
17 comments
[ 5.4 ms ] story [ 38.8 ms ] threadHe’s absolutely irate about what’s happening in Minnesota.
It’s for sure one of the biggest blind spots of this community, which should come as no surprise but is still a shame as it would be nice to have the high level of discourse we can expect from other topics applied to this period that could easily be, for many of us, the most significant geopolitical event of our lifetimes.
I’m curious if that’s a topic the mods have any thoughts on.
* HN has a high level of discourse,
* This is ascribed partly to the guidelines,
* The guidelines recommend we avoid the topics that usually result in squabbling,
* But if only we could keep our act together, we have a rare opportunity for high level discourse on inflammatory topics!
I kind of agree with you, but I'm terribly naive and I do a lot of wishful thinking.
(I also have show dead enabled).
I know that many here will question ICE's mandate to act even against immigrants who don't have their paperwork in order, but this is another question.
1. https://abcnews.go.com/US/us-1st-time-50-years-experienced-n...
2. https://bjs.ojp.gov/document/fjs23.pdf
3. https://www.heritage.org/crime-and-justice/commentary/beware...
This is by design. You’re asking the wrong questions out of some imagined “higher tier of thinking” and it’s only beneficial to those in power.
My genuine trouble with this kind of post is that I don’t know if it is true.
How do I know the guy isn’t trying to get donations for local groups? Is that an odd question to ask after the dominant lens through which we analyze action is “cui bono?”
How do I know that this didn’t come from some Russian intel group? Is that an odd question to ask after Russian interference is all over the media during our elections?
It’s the problem of our society today: we don’t share a common view of reality.
In any case, either he'll try to cancel midterm elections altogether, or he'll have ICE and National Guard roaming and harassing voters when that time comes around. Strategically in very blue or purple areas.
If that works for the midterms, no doubt we'll see more of the same for the presidential election.
"heard" and "express concern" commonly do a lot of heavy lifting in anecdata:
Without being more specific, "heard" and "express concern" don't mean much, and with specific qualification, are easily manipulated.I also live just outside of Minneapolis. I have white-appearance family members whose heritage traces literally back to the Mayflower that have been harrassed while working from home, and literally dozens of others expressing concern due to those in their circle being harassed, and many others expressing concern due to viewing media that they trust.
In thinking just now, it's hard to think of anyone not expressing concern, on "both sides", partly because I am hearing expressions on the topic from a tremendous number of persons.