hate is the perfect word. you can't even drag anything onto the taskbar icons yet, and maybe never will be able to. just one small example of many, of why hate is the perfect word
Hate might be a strong word, but it's natural to feel that way towards a product designed with the primary purpose of increasing LTV per customer per PC.
I'm not being factious, but is there any Linux distro with a desktop experience that matches Windows and macos?
Like, yes, I know there are many flaws with both. A lot of sound, technical issues with windows and macos. A slew of UX ones as well. But despite W11 carrying around remnants of Windows 98 still, both of those OSes _feel nice_.
Multiple desktops work well, nice gestures, simple installers and applications. Stuff often just works.
My experience with the distros and desktops Ive tried in Linux have felt like windows 98 with a janky web interface on top, or have missed a lot of features that commercial OSes have, installing programs is a mix of flatpaks, APKs, and building from source.
Often feels like a thin veil on top of a technically-inclined terminal OS.
Is ther eany OS/desktop where you dont pay the "linux tax" when it comes to how the GUI feels?
The problem with linux hasn't been the GUI for a long time, even 20 years ago you had flashier GUI than win / mac. Personally I don't care about GUI and just run i3 with shitty looking dialogs.
The problem with linux has been either hardware compatibility or when things don't work it's a pain to figure it out however I have good news on that front! For the life of me I've never managed to send audio to my monitor / TV speakers when running linux but now with Gemini I've managed to finally fix it. So if you're scared about things breaking and spending hours inside man pages.. just copy paste your console into an LLM and it'll probably help you out.
> Multiple desktops work well, nice gestures, simple installers and applications.
Multiple desktops on Windows is not a nice experience for me. When you switch the desktop on one display then they ALL change for every display. I need them independent ala macOS or it is just so infuriating to use. Win11 also has big Fisher Price sized title bars now and macOS Tahoe isn't far behind. I think the GUI designers are on magic mushrooms when coming up with these designs.
> is there any Linux distro with a desktop experience that matches Windows and macos?
I guess if you install systemsettings from kde3, a text editor from gnome, remove 90% of the features from dolphin you're in the vicinity of the mess they are.
Zorin OS asks whether you want a Windows-like or MacOS-like desktop during setup.
My top recommendation for a Windows user though is Linux Mint. It's desktop is called Cinnamon and while it doesn't look exactly like any Windows desktop, it's familiar enough that people don't have trouble switching to it. Linux Mint seems to be the, "It Just Works", Linux distro these days.
Beyond that, if you don't mind installing themes, most Linux desktops can be themed to look like whatever version of Windows, MacOS, etc. that you want. Getting the feel can be more difficult. KDE Plasma is very customizable though if you are willing to spend the time.
> is there any Linux distro with a desktop experience that matches Windows and macos?
Sure. Ubuntu, for example.
I don't know what people's expectations are in terms of UX & GUIs, but I have been perfectly happy with Ubuntu over the last 10-15 years.
Other than gaming (I am not a gamer) and some specialized applications (Photoshop, etc.), I can always find an application on Ubuntu that worked for me: Libre Office, FreeCAD, KiCAD, IDEs, most programming languages, ...
There is no problem with installing stuff either. In the last 10 years, I did not have to build anything from source and "apt" (or its GUI equivalents) works perfectly fine.
In terms of features and usability, nothing comes close to KDE, and that includes Windows and MacOS. The integration is tight - everything works with each other. Settings has flatpak permissions, the system monitor has widgets you can just use as widgets, the search backend is available in so many places. Functionally, it feels cohesive, and there's basically nothing you can't do.
> At this very moment of writing this post, I don’t care about the lack of Microsoft support. [...] [U]sing Win10 as a regular desktop OS on a machine connected to the Internet past the last security update, I'm aware that the risk of a compromise only increases as time goes on...
Do they know about LTSC? There is no reason to run Windows 10 without security updates: https://massgrave.dev/windows10_eol (pirate site but you don't have to use their tools, all the information here about update tracks for Windows is still valid)
In addition to the title’s “hate is a strong word”, in the comments we have “hate is a weak word”, “hate might be a strong word”, and “hate is the perfect word”, averaging out to something like hate being ever-so-slightly on the strong side of perfect.
Windows 11 is so bad that I finally made the permanent jump to Linux. At the end of my time with Windows, it would HARD freeze about twice a week. I thought I was having hardware failures and got really scared.
When I switched to Omarchy, I've had zero crashes. Omarchy gave me a great OS that I spend no time tweaking and fiddling with. Steam works out of the box, and all the games I play work out of the box. Control, Duke Nukem 3D, Blade Chimera, Elden Ring, Ender Lilies, Lorn's Lure, Pragamata, RE 4 Remake, it just works. If you're a gamer don't be scared and give it a try, you will not want to go back to windows.
> Since I already committed to ditching my partner in favor of a more attractive ex…
This was a funny sentence to read, as my first thought as I started the article was “Windows users are starting to remind me of people stuck in cycles of abusive relationships.”
Windows has been in a cycle of abusively bad releases followed by sheepish "sorry, we learned our lesson" releases for nearly thirty years. What is the author’s plan for five years from now, just hope that Windows 12 isn't garbage?
All I can figure is that every generation spawns a new set of users who never knew any better, a segment of them reaching the breaking point, but can't be bothered to influence the next generation.
regardless: this is always who Windows was. Get out and get help.
One thing that is pretty impressive with Windows 11 however is WSL. I can just run a X program and it pops up as its own Window. So for example, I can run Chrome on Ubuntu on Windows, out of the box. On Windows 10, WSL is good for the command line, but Windows 11 takes it much further.
I used Ubuntu at home for years, but went back to Windows when my last Thinkpad died, around the time WSL became a thing. Then I stopped coding and just became a Windows user. But it just got worse every week. Slower and more annoying. I think I'm going to ditch my family Office subscription and install Ubuntu again.
> why is the UI so slow / explorer slow / bluetooth slow
this is a legitimate complaint, but I see latency absolutely everywhere. my iPhone 17 Pro dropped frames out of the box . now 3/4 unlocks drops frames.
I'm not defending Windows, it's obviously in decline -- but trying to identify root cause. There used to be curmudgeon engineers on staff who would berate team members over blocked UIs, dropped frames, input latency over 30ms . Dave Cutler made a rubber stamp that rejected (then paper) code reviews with "Size is the Goal". That culture has retired.
Web-dev's design interactions targeting 500-2000ms, so to them everything on the OS looks fast . Adding 150ms to right-click is unnoticeable . Like 15kHz audio to a boomer or purple to the color blind .
It's easy to beat up on MS, because most open-source devs have despised them. But Microsoft had a very high bar for engineering until about 10 years ago ( you may laugh, but remember they were writing OS's that last 40+ years) . Apple had an extremely high bar until about 5 years ago.
This isn't just one bad product, but an entire industry lowering its standards.
It's because these things aren't priorities for management so they aren't for the engineers, the latest fads like AI are priorities and therefore they get integrated everywhere.
It feels like everything is falling apart and getting worse. Yet somehow people are racing to produce AI slop faster. If software eventually collapses under its own weight, things might be so borked we have to bootstrap everything from scratch, staring with assembly.
I know it's not fashionable to be positive about macos but since ditching Windows a decade ago it's pretty much just worked, and I can run Excel and the like. I'm sticking with Sequoia and avoiding 26 though, for now.
RemoveWindowsAI shows a massive amount of AI crap they are trying to force on us. It removes EVERYTHING and is updated regularly.
I DO HATE Windows 11 and don't trust Microsoft with my data one bit. Every prompt you make lives in their logs no matter what they say - they flat out lie about it. "Oh we made it anonyomous". Sure. Yeah. RIGHT. With AI any data can be made Not-Anonymous.
My official reasons to hate Windows 11 go on and on. Here are a few
Windows 11 REMOVED vertical task bars - the most screen space efficient way to Task!
Windows 11 ARBITRARILY limits the number of Apps you can have pinned to your task bar,
Windows 11 WASTES a massive number of pixels and forces you to have a blank task bar.
Just typing this is letting the rage flow and I'm embracing the DARK SIDE.
I love AI when it's my choice to give them my data, and I love developing with it, and I love building it into Apps for users who need it as a tool.
Plus 1000% NSA scooping up everything including with moles on site at every major tech company.
I don't use Windows a lot, but still have a desktop for gaming.
With Windows 10, I started using "O&O ShutUp10"[0], which lets me easily disable (and revert the changes if needed) most of the crap enabled by default. There's no OneDrive, CoPilot, weather, "news", etc, annoying me, which makes my Windows experience bearable. I just have to open the app once after each major update because Microsoft loves to re-enable features.
My upgrade to Windows 11 was smooth. I didn't have the issues reported in the article. But man, it sometimes feels like they forgot to optimized it. Opening/closing the start menu, viewing all apps, isn't that smooth for me. I have a powerful computer, with a fast GPU and one of the more recent AMD CPUs... and at times it's like it's running at 24fps.
I mainly use a Mac, which is better, but after seeing the "Liquid Glass" UI lag on M1 machines, I decided to stay on MacOS Sequoia. Is everyone ignoring performance now?
We have crossed into a fascinating time in computing: market power lets incumbents make “whatever”, shove it in a forced update with no going back, and still be valued in the trillions.
Just today when trying to run Forza Horizon 5 from a new laptop I got an Xbox login popup with some QR code I was supposed to scan but the window was super small and I wasn't able to resize it to actually see the full QR code. One has to wonder what is going on with Microsoft if things like these pass they "quality" checks.
39 comments
[ 0.18 ms ] story [ 74.4 ms ] thread2026, the killer app for many Windows users is now a text editor that has ran in Wine since 2012.
We're making good progress, folks!
Like, yes, I know there are many flaws with both. A lot of sound, technical issues with windows and macos. A slew of UX ones as well. But despite W11 carrying around remnants of Windows 98 still, both of those OSes _feel nice_.
Multiple desktops work well, nice gestures, simple installers and applications. Stuff often just works.
My experience with the distros and desktops Ive tried in Linux have felt like windows 98 with a janky web interface on top, or have missed a lot of features that commercial OSes have, installing programs is a mix of flatpaks, APKs, and building from source.
Often feels like a thin veil on top of a technically-inclined terminal OS.
Is ther eany OS/desktop where you dont pay the "linux tax" when it comes to how the GUI feels?
The problem with linux has been either hardware compatibility or when things don't work it's a pain to figure it out however I have good news on that front! For the life of me I've never managed to send audio to my monitor / TV speakers when running linux but now with Gemini I've managed to finally fix it. So if you're scared about things breaking and spending hours inside man pages.. just copy paste your console into an LLM and it'll probably help you out.
Multiple desktops on Windows is not a nice experience for me. When you switch the desktop on one display then they ALL change for every display. I need them independent ala macOS or it is just so infuriating to use. Win11 also has big Fisher Price sized title bars now and macOS Tahoe isn't far behind. I think the GUI designers are on magic mushrooms when coming up with these designs.
I guess if you install systemsettings from kde3, a text editor from gnome, remove 90% of the features from dolphin you're in the vicinity of the mess they are.
My top recommendation for a Windows user though is Linux Mint. It's desktop is called Cinnamon and while it doesn't look exactly like any Windows desktop, it's familiar enough that people don't have trouble switching to it. Linux Mint seems to be the, "It Just Works", Linux distro these days.
Beyond that, if you don't mind installing themes, most Linux desktops can be themed to look like whatever version of Windows, MacOS, etc. that you want. Getting the feel can be more difficult. KDE Plasma is very customizable though if you are willing to spend the time.
Sure. Ubuntu, for example.
I don't know what people's expectations are in terms of UX & GUIs, but I have been perfectly happy with Ubuntu over the last 10-15 years.
Other than gaming (I am not a gamer) and some specialized applications (Photoshop, etc.), I can always find an application on Ubuntu that worked for me: Libre Office, FreeCAD, KiCAD, IDEs, most programming languages, ...
There is no problem with installing stuff either. In the last 10 years, I did not have to build anything from source and "apt" (or its GUI equivalents) works perfectly fine.
So crappy ? Maybe something bloated like Ubuntu or Fedora.
In terms of features and usability, nothing comes close to KDE, and that includes Windows and MacOS. The integration is tight - everything works with each other. Settings has flatpak permissions, the system monitor has widgets you can just use as widgets, the search backend is available in so many places. Functionally, it feels cohesive, and there's basically nothing you can't do.
Do they know about LTSC? There is no reason to run Windows 10 without security updates: https://massgrave.dev/windows10_eol (pirate site but you don't have to use their tools, all the information here about update tracks for Windows is still valid)
When I switched to Omarchy, I've had zero crashes. Omarchy gave me a great OS that I spend no time tweaking and fiddling with. Steam works out of the box, and all the games I play work out of the box. Control, Duke Nukem 3D, Blade Chimera, Elden Ring, Ender Lilies, Lorn's Lure, Pragamata, RE 4 Remake, it just works. If you're a gamer don't be scared and give it a try, you will not want to go back to windows.
This was a funny sentence to read, as my first thought as I started the article was “Windows users are starting to remind me of people stuck in cycles of abusive relationships.”
Windows has been in a cycle of abusively bad releases followed by sheepish "sorry, we learned our lesson" releases for nearly thirty years. What is the author’s plan for five years from now, just hope that Windows 12 isn't garbage?
All I can figure is that every generation spawns a new set of users who never knew any better, a segment of them reaching the breaking point, but can't be bothered to influence the next generation.
regardless: this is always who Windows was. Get out and get help.
this is a legitimate complaint, but I see latency absolutely everywhere. my iPhone 17 Pro dropped frames out of the box . now 3/4 unlocks drops frames.
I'm not defending Windows, it's obviously in decline -- but trying to identify root cause. There used to be curmudgeon engineers on staff who would berate team members over blocked UIs, dropped frames, input latency over 30ms . Dave Cutler made a rubber stamp that rejected (then paper) code reviews with "Size is the Goal". That culture has retired.
Web-dev's design interactions targeting 500-2000ms, so to them everything on the OS looks fast . Adding 150ms to right-click is unnoticeable . Like 15kHz audio to a boomer or purple to the color blind .
It's easy to beat up on MS, because most open-source devs have despised them. But Microsoft had a very high bar for engineering until about 10 years ago ( you may laugh, but remember they were writing OS's that last 40+ years) . Apple had an extremely high bar until about 5 years ago.
This isn't just one bad product, but an entire industry lowering its standards.
I don't mind duck duck go's search assistant.
I started using Double Commander over Explorer and Terracopy for moving files around. Double Commander isn't the prettiest but it works quite well.
The responsiveness of both these apps shows that the problem isn't necessarily the Windows 11 operating system itself.
RemoveWindowsAI https://github.com/zoicware/RemoveWindowsAI
ProtonDB The list of AI crap is jaw gobbin massive.
ProtonDB checks known linux game compatibility && login with Steam to check your library! https://www.protondb.com/dashboard
RemoveWindowsAI shows a massive amount of AI crap they are trying to force on us. It removes EVERYTHING and is updated regularly.
I DO HATE Windows 11 and don't trust Microsoft with my data one bit. Every prompt you make lives in their logs no matter what they say - they flat out lie about it. "Oh we made it anonyomous". Sure. Yeah. RIGHT. With AI any data can be made Not-Anonymous.
Hopefully the EU will smash!
I'm trying bazzite (https://bazzite.gg) which is made for gaming.
My official reasons to hate Windows 11 go on and on. Here are a few
Windows 11 REMOVED vertical task bars - the most screen space efficient way to Task! Windows 11 ARBITRARILY limits the number of Apps you can have pinned to your task bar, Windows 11 WASTES a massive number of pixels and forces you to have a blank task bar.
Just typing this is letting the rage flow and I'm embracing the DARK SIDE.
I love AI when it's my choice to give them my data, and I love developing with it, and I love building it into Apps for users who need it as a tool.
Plus 1000% NSA scooping up everything including with moles on site at every major tech company.
With Windows 10, I started using "O&O ShutUp10"[0], which lets me easily disable (and revert the changes if needed) most of the crap enabled by default. There's no OneDrive, CoPilot, weather, "news", etc, annoying me, which makes my Windows experience bearable. I just have to open the app once after each major update because Microsoft loves to re-enable features.
My upgrade to Windows 11 was smooth. I didn't have the issues reported in the article. But man, it sometimes feels like they forgot to optimized it. Opening/closing the start menu, viewing all apps, isn't that smooth for me. I have a powerful computer, with a fast GPU and one of the more recent AMD CPUs... and at times it's like it's running at 24fps.
I mainly use a Mac, which is better, but after seeing the "Liquid Glass" UI lag on M1 machines, I decided to stay on MacOS Sequoia. Is everyone ignoring performance now?
[0] https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
Can’t wait til this phase is done.
I despise W11.