Seriously though.. this only highlights how much better Apple's presentations are. At least they focus on keeping people on stage who know the ins and outs of the tech they are showing. This lady struggled with the term 1080p..
I'm beginning to warm up to Windows 8, though I still think usability is kind of a mess, and once you scale up to a 20"+ screen the launch pad looks 'confusing'.
That said, I'm very impressed with all the different devices they have ready at launch, but something tells me this is the part where they are missing the secret sauce that Apple posses. As a general consumer I'm simply befuddled at all the options - the paradox of choice - and I'm more likely to just go simplify things and go buy that Apple one instead.
I don't know if we can still use the Apple keynotes as references as Tuesday one was really painful. It was slow, packed with marketing keywords, and Tim Cook was unable to ramp up the suspense through his speech...
PS: I am not watching the Microsoft one right now, so I have no idea if it can compare.
They sort of pushed a middle ground between Microsoft and Apple. They have their own tablet, highly engineered and well built. Might not be the best value for the money, but it's solid, looks nice, and isn't a bad option. Then for the Microsoft side of things, they have OEMs doing their own thing, pushing weird and obscure form factors and generally making everything they can to see what sticks.
They really need to bring in some of their better product evangelists like Scott Hanselman for these kinds of major launches in my opinion. He's a guy who can speak well to an audience and is certainly technically capable enough to know the ins and outs of the product he's showing off.
I'd like to pick up a Windows 8 (Pro, not RT) tablet right now. I wish Microsoft had more control over hardware. This webcast isn't going to end with "and you can buy it right now" since stores won't start selling stuff 'til tomorrow... and I'm not confident stores near me will have any tablets for sale tomorrow either. The nearest Microsoft Store is 4+ hours away.
x86 Windows 8 tablets from several manufacturers have been available for pre-order (e.g. on Amazon) for a couple of weeks now, for shipment tomorrow. (Of course, that doesn't help if you want to go into a store to play with different devices before buying one.)
absolutely; and i feel it’s because they’ve really pulled everything together nicely and built a very compelling ecosystem. people tend to define the merits of an ecosystem based largely on app counts, the real value (in my opinion) is in the range of services you get on a platform, and how much you can accomplish utilizing them..
connecting to my microsoft account today, i pretty much have access to services that cover nearly everything i need out of a computing device:
- email (outlook.com)
- messaging (skype)
- cloud storage (skydrive)
- productivity (office)
- collaboration (onenote)
- entertainment (xbox music / xbox video)
- gaming (xbox live)
- social media integration (facebook, twitter, linkedin, ... info pulled-in)
- roaming settings (windows, windows phone)
- roaming favourites (internet explorer)
that makes for a pretty compelling offering to me, and i honestly don’t see any of the others in the market coming close to this.
on the development side, while they’re not quite there yet, they also seem to be the closest in offering an ecosystem where a single application can be accessible on the widest variety of devices and form-factors; i'd say that’s pretty damn cool, and as a consumer i'm looking forward to the experiences that will bring..
Name one provider who offers similar content that doesn't have this issue. With all the legal and localization issues this is a difficult problem to solve.
A dedicated team to manually transfer your account across locales could do the job right the first time.. and it retains a happy customer within your ecosystem.. which is the whole point.
Watching Ballmer speak at the end was hard. I wish they simplified their keynotes a little bit.
Off-Topic Question...
I need to purchase my girlfriend a birthday gift. She "really" wants a tablet. I think a laptop would suit her needs the best. However, "must make g/f happy", is what my brain says. Do you guys think the Surface RT is a solid choice? I asked HN here http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4697945
I ask, because I cant seem to pull the trigger on any tablet.
I think the general consensus is "do not buy" because there are no apps for it and it can't run Windows desktop apps. I would wait for the x86 version at the very least.
Also puzzling was the decision to include every piece of office except the most important one (Outlook)
I'm honestly finding it hard to see a use case for this device. While I'm really looking forward to the full fledged version when it launches, the RT looks like a confusing solution in search of a problem.
well its an unfair comparison, the iOS store released much later than the iphone, here windows 8 is launching along with the store, so in contrast its a much better start !
I like how you put "reviews" in quotes, so you can be dismiss them without addressing them. No conclusions? What are these?:
> I don't believe Surface is perfect, but it's a platform I can believe in. ... If you're ok being an early adopter, and ok dealing with the fact that mobile devices are still being significantly revved every year, Surface is worth your consideration. If you've wanted a tablet that could begin to bridge the content consumption and productivity divide, Surface is it.
> For a first-generation product, the Surface with Windows RT is astonishingly polished. ... I also expect the ecosystem around the Surface, notably productivity apps, to improve by leaps and bounds in the next year or so. ... Enthusiastically recommended.
Just lists of facts? You think the AnandTech review is just a list of facts? Did you even look at it? 12 different sections proving in-depth coverage of everything from the battery to the cover. You can disagree but dismissing it as vacuous is simply disingenuous.
No one disputes that the app store has fewer apps. How many apps do you have installed, though? I personally don't need 100K+ apps. I need the few that I actually need. Does the Windows App Store have what you need? If so, great. If not, either get something else or wait for the apps you need to arrive.
The issue you run in to is what people consider reputable sources. If the only sources you trust are Gizmodo and TechCrunch, it certainly is a consensus.
Though, at that point I think there are bigger questions to ask...
Oh, that is the general consensus. I'm sure of it and I have a sea of negative reviews to back that up.
From the Anandtech review, final words - "If you're ok being an early adopter, and ok dealing with the fact that mobile devices are still being significantly revved every year, Surface is worth your consideration."
That's a big "If". So, we're left with a single positive review by ZDNet out of many, many, many negative reviews.
Depends on whether they worked with Instagram, Twitter, Pinterest, Instagram, Amazon (Kindle) to make some apps available on day one. If not, then probably not.
I don't like the idea of buying the first iteration of any hardware either, regardless of whether the manufacturer is Apple or Microsoft.
amazon just launched kindle for windows 8, so one of them is in, I am confident apps for the others should be out soon. Netflix , hulu apps look gorgeous on windows 8 pro desktop
> I think a laptop would suit her needs the best. However, "must make g/f happy", is what my brain says. Do you guys think the Surface RT is a solid choice?
You're in an awkward spot. She wants a tablet and you think she needs a laptop. What does she actually need the device for? What she needs will dictate what device would be best.
Does she just browse the web and send email? If so, get her a tablet. As a laptop replacement, I'd say go for a 10" tablet. (I'm recommending the Surface, of course.)
Alternatively, does she need to write/edit documents occasionally? Basically, does she need Word? If so, go for the Surface.
If she wants a traditional keyboard, either get her the Type Cover or a hybrid tablet.
If she needs other desktop software, either get her a hybrid like the ATIV Pro, or wait for Surface Pro.
My big question watching this webcast (and reading reviews of windows 8 online is), how does it all work when you step outside the ecosystem? I want to keep using chrome, not IE; dropbox not skydrive, gtalk not skype. VLC and a third-party media player, not the baked in tools.
Will these applications integrate well and can i switch off the defaults? For example, bookmarks on the homescreen, easily accessible play/pause controls etc. Or will i feel like i'm wrestling with the OS because i'm not using the Microsoft tools?
Just like Windows always has, and then some. Chrome's already got a Metro-friendly build (though the UI is still identical to the desktop); and Dropbox et. al. can hook in via "Contracts" (similar to Android Intents) to other apps and Windows itself.
Different styling, but same overall UI. No modifications I'm aware of for touch use or "Metro" restyling has been done so far (and I doubt they're concerned until x86 tablets ship in significant number or if/when Microsoft gives way on alt browsers for WinRT)
I wonder if Apple and Microsoft will get that at some point, i bet on Google not because they are superior in every way but i can trust them not locking me out when i change the ecosystem.
In fairness, if the parent was referring to online services you are absolutely correct - Google are streets ahead with their data liberation work. Microsoft and Apple are worryingly closed in that area.
Since I have the preview on a VM, I figured I'd look into this for you. An installation of Chrome gives you a desktop and a metro version. Chrome doesn't give you the option of pinning a page to the Start screen. You can still use the Win8's Share feature to send a link via the People hub or Mail. The People hub lets me send via Facebook or Twitter. Mail works as you'd expect. Pages that were previously pinned with IE remain pinned after you change your default browser to Chrome, but you can only have one Metro browser, it seems. The pinned pages open in Desktop IE after that change.
I won't know until tomorrow (Friday) about Skype as that is when they release it for Windows 8. Other tools likely will require some effort on the part of the developers to support the native features. You're a good a judge as me as to whether open-source apps will make that effort.
The huge number of hooks that Windows provides to third party developers is both its blessing and its curse. I highly recommend Raymond Chen's blog for a (often hilarious) description of this world.
AFAIK, Windows 8 takes interoperability further with new features like intents, while still offering the full Win32 API (on x86 builds).
Play / pause controls are a good example. Applications have been able to integrate via global hotkeys since.. Vista? Maybe XP. Either way, I am still able to control Spotify on my Win8 laptop using the hardware controls. As I would be able to with any application that chose to implement support.
Windows continues to be the only OS to provide this kind of deep out of the box support on a broad range of hardware from multiple suppliers.
I'm really happy with what Microsoft has been doing lately, but this presentation is kind of failing. It's not really getting the audience that excited. This doesn't affect my opinion of the new products, but it's not helping Microsoft's competitive mission, and that makes me cringe a bit.
Cause its not apple... they dont even try to hide their pro apple bias anymore. The worst though is silicon valley insider, they posted 5 anti win 8 articles already..
51 comments
[ 3.8 ms ] story [ 109 ms ] threadSeriously though.. this only highlights how much better Apple's presentations are. At least they focus on keeping people on stage who know the ins and outs of the tech they are showing. This lady struggled with the term 1080p..
I'm beginning to warm up to Windows 8, though I still think usability is kind of a mess, and once you scale up to a 20"+ screen the launch pad looks 'confusing'.
That said, I'm very impressed with all the different devices they have ready at launch, but something tells me this is the part where they are missing the secret sauce that Apple posses. As a general consumer I'm simply befuddled at all the options - the paradox of choice - and I'm more likely to just go simplify things and go buy that Apple one instead.
PS: I am not watching the Microsoft one right now, so I have no idea if it can compare.
I'll deal with their lack of presentation skills.
connecting to my microsoft account today, i pretty much have access to services that cover nearly everything i need out of a computing device:
- email (outlook.com)
- messaging (skype)
- cloud storage (skydrive)
- productivity (office)
- collaboration (onenote)
- entertainment (xbox music / xbox video)
- gaming (xbox live)
- social media integration (facebook, twitter, linkedin, ... info pulled-in)
- roaming settings (windows, windows phone)
- roaming favourites (internet explorer)
that makes for a pretty compelling offering to me, and i honestly don’t see any of the others in the market coming close to this.
on the development side, while they’re not quite there yet, they also seem to be the closest in offering an ecosystem where a single application can be accessible on the widest variety of devices and form-factors; i'd say that’s pretty damn cool, and as a consumer i'm looking forward to the experiences that will bring..
http://owened.co.nz/how-microsoft-might-sink-its-own-ecosyst...
A dedicated team to manually transfer your account across locales could do the job right the first time.. and it retains a happy customer within your ecosystem.. which is the whole point.
Some stuff next year, some now... How should i know what are the important ones, he sounds kinda bored. The crazy Ballmer is 10 times better.
Of course, that might reinforce your position.
Off-Topic Question...
I need to purchase my girlfriend a birthday gift. She "really" wants a tablet. I think a laptop would suit her needs the best. However, "must make g/f happy", is what my brain says. Do you guys think the Surface RT is a solid choice? I asked HN here http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4697945
I ask, because I cant seem to pull the trigger on any tablet.
http://techcrunch.com/2012/10/23/microsoft-surface-rt-review...
http://gizmodo.com/5953866/microsoft-surface-rt-review-this-...
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6385/microsoft-surface-review/...
http://www.zdnet.com/hands-on-with-microsofts-surface-rt-can...
Disclosure: I'm pretty biased here, as a Microsoft employee.
Fact is, the app store in it's current state is very, very weak. It currently has fewer applications on it than iOS did when its store first launched.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/App_Store_(iOS)#Number_of_laun...
Also puzzling was the decision to include every piece of office except the most important one (Outlook)
I'm honestly finding it hard to see a use case for this device. While I'm really looking forward to the full fledged version when it launches, the RT looks like a confusing solution in search of a problem.
> I don't believe Surface is perfect, but it's a platform I can believe in. ... If you're ok being an early adopter, and ok dealing with the fact that mobile devices are still being significantly revved every year, Surface is worth your consideration. If you've wanted a tablet that could begin to bridge the content consumption and productivity divide, Surface is it.
> For a first-generation product, the Surface with Windows RT is astonishingly polished. ... I also expect the ecosystem around the Surface, notably productivity apps, to improve by leaps and bounds in the next year or so. ... Enthusiastically recommended.
Just lists of facts? You think the AnandTech review is just a list of facts? Did you even look at it? 12 different sections proving in-depth coverage of everything from the battery to the cover. You can disagree but dismissing it as vacuous is simply disingenuous.
No one disputes that the app store has fewer apps. How many apps do you have installed, though? I personally don't need 100K+ apps. I need the few that I actually need. Does the Windows App Store have what you need? If so, great. If not, either get something else or wait for the apps you need to arrive.
Though, at that point I think there are bigger questions to ask...
From the Anandtech review, final words - "If you're ok being an early adopter, and ok dealing with the fact that mobile devices are still being significantly revved every year, Surface is worth your consideration."
That's a big "If". So, we're left with a single positive review by ZDNet out of many, many, many negative reviews.
I don't like the idea of buying the first iteration of any hardware either, regardless of whether the manufacturer is Apple or Microsoft.
You're in an awkward spot. She wants a tablet and you think she needs a laptop. What does she actually need the device for? What she needs will dictate what device would be best.
Does she just browse the web and send email? If so, get her a tablet. As a laptop replacement, I'd say go for a 10" tablet. (I'm recommending the Surface, of course.)
Alternatively, does she need to write/edit documents occasionally? Basically, does she need Word? If so, go for the Surface.
If she wants a traditional keyboard, either get her the Type Cover or a hybrid tablet.
If she needs other desktop software, either get her a hybrid like the ATIV Pro, or wait for Surface Pro.
Will these applications integrate well and can i switch off the defaults? For example, bookmarks on the homescreen, easily accessible play/pause controls etc. Or will i feel like i'm wrestling with the OS because i'm not using the Microsoft tools?
I won't know until tomorrow (Friday) about Skype as that is when they release it for Windows 8. Other tools likely will require some effort on the part of the developers to support the native features. You're a good a judge as me as to whether open-source apps will make that effort.
Anything else I can look into for you?
AFAIK, Windows 8 takes interoperability further with new features like intents, while still offering the full Win32 API (on x86 builds).
Play / pause controls are a good example. Applications have been able to integrate via global hotkeys since.. Vista? Maybe XP. Either way, I am still able to control Spotify on my Win8 laptop using the hardware controls. As I would be able to with any application that chose to implement support.
Windows continues to be the only OS to provide this kind of deep out of the box support on a broad range of hardware from multiple suppliers.
Edit: grammar