Ask HN: Are there examples of 3D printing data onto physical surfaces?
Since that seems like a pretty well-known concept, crudely applied to a domain I haven't seen it in before - but is already large and growing fast - I'm assuming that others have thought of this? I was hoping maybe someone had implemented something like it? And then, obviously, if that proof of concept exists, I'd wonder about some kind of advanced version that used specialized equipment for the reading (and possibly the writing/printing).
In any case, I'm just curious. I was thinking about long term (century +) archival storage, or encryption keys only stored as the print with no digital copies. Stuff that wouldn't need tons of storage, but would be crucial to maintain statically. It probably wouldn't be useful for that, which is why I assume I'm not finding much in my searches for it. But I was just wondering if anyone knew about it, in case there is stuff it's good for.
49 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 70.5 ms ] threadI think some of the other answered showed that people are, it's just pretty niche. Not something a hobbyist can (currently) do, but definitely the same idea at a production scale.
Another variation of this is how we encode information into granite and other stones in Western funeral rites (grave stones): you engrave the information, then fill the groove with pigment. The pigment is susceptible to weathering, but the 3d information is pretty resistant. When the pigment is too worn down you just smear some more on there and wipe the excess away, leaving pigment only in the grooves, making the message clearly visible again
Do you count plaques on public landmarks?
> I think some of the other answered showed that people are, it's just pretty niche. Not something a hobbyist can (currently) do, but definitely the same idea at a production scale.
Definitely is doable, having done it myself. You can probably hit your century target using the more specialized FDM/SLA/DLP hobby feedstock, if you can guarantee climate-controlled storage. Millenia if you shell out high double to low triple digits for a print service with fancy industrial machines, or if you combine a home printer with ceramics or metal jewellery skills.
your X/Y resolution isnt going to be fantastic woth filament, but your Z is gonna really suck.
you could instead print(emboss?) like a barcode on some paper, and encase that in resin. the big benefit being that you can read it non-destructively. keep it out of the sun so whatever ink doesnt fade and you're set
I know this wasn't in the original ask, but my focus was on what I would be able to do, as far as archival storage, if I had a 3D printer. The assumption being that it's easier for me to have, maintain, and use a 3D printer than it would be for me to have a vinyl press.
I also think you could get denser storage that way? I guess depending upon how thick the "wire" is? But it's an interesting idea for both just printing the wire, and for the driver-teeth imprinting, separately. Very cool!
I know it sounds “boring” but it is hard to beat a good acid-free archival paper printed with a good quality ink. Stored in the right circumstances (not too humid, dark place, not on fire) it should last half a millennia easily. It is also pretty much guaranteed that whatever happens we will have the technology to read it again.
Exotics like laser engraved metal plates or ceramics might be better if you have a lot of data and can’t guarantee your storage will be fire and flood free. If you don’t have a lot of data you can also think of engraving it into stone or press it into a clay tablet and fire it. These mediums are known to be very stable even in adverse circumstances.
I didn't have an amount in mind, I was just kind of wondering about the hobbyist aspect. Like if I woke up one day and realized I need to archive something and my most readily available tool was a 3d printer, would I have to come up with my own scheme, or has someone already done it?
OPTAR: 2016
https://ronja.twibright.com/optar/
For a small amount of data (crypto keys?), consider deep laser engraving on stainless steel. That's very durable. Or even engrave text into stainless steel with a small CNC mill.
You can engrave QR codes, bar codes, etc. But there's a lot to be said for engraving plain text.
There is also Microsoft Project Silica which I recall seeing in person at their EBC playing back a movie from it https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/project/project-sil...
Then there is m-disc which uses the DVD+R and BD-R/BDXL standards but writing to a sort of glass rather than to the traditional medium. These are cool as they play back n regular players too. https://www.mdisc.com/
Edit: found Reddit discussion I learned that from: https://www.reddit.com/r/DataHoarder/comments/13693k0/new_de...
If you want something truly long lasting you might find substractive manufacturing techniques like CNC milling better. Indeed there are solutions from companies like Cryptotag for punching cryptographic seed data into plates / blocks of titanium. Something like this could be automated with a CNC router to store a bunch more data.
Probably use a 177x177 QR code with Q or H error correction engraved (deeply). I would probably compress the data and encode it as Hex so it can be stored in alphanumeric mode on the QR. You might need a series of QRs for larger data.
I know that isn't relevant to the question I asked, as stated, but the focus was on 3D printing because it is something any person could do, rather than something that has to be manufactured by specialized equipment.
There might be corner cases where 3d makes sense...but it is hard to compete with decals/stickers, and 2d steganography can also use color and saturation as additional data dimensions.
But I could be wrong.
In particular those when a sheet of paper’s thickness does not impact the required data density. While storing data on a wear surface is desirable and necessary to system design. And when conventional use of a engraved number as index to extended data is insufficient.
I guess you could consider it an "offline datastore as a service." It would be a pretty good offline storage of keys with a way to request a paper copy. Certainly issues of trust and physical security but wrapping it with encryption would be easy. Also benefit from your government's legal protections for mail. There might actually be a usecase here.
Couple fast facts:
- Current 26 * 32 = 832 cells * 6 dot braille = 4992 bits/mold/page
- Possible 28 * 34 = 952 cells * 6 dot braille = 5712 bits/mold/page
- Maybe some more headroom, but that's what is possible with current spacings
One or the more interesting things about asking this was seeing all of the types of "storage" that I hadn't even really considered. Braille didn't enter my mind, but of course it's a great analogy!
I dont think TSMC make ROM chips using their 5nm process but I think they _could_, if needed. So that would be a very compact way of storing info.
There is a lot of etching and masking going on in lithography, it is not localised additive manufacturing, the distinctive feature of 3d printed.
You could even get a binder, and then print the QR codes sheets as 'pages'. You could print these thin enough to do 1mm sheets. That means ~ 120 of these in a 5 inch binder. So, a 3 ring binder of 1mm sheets of 177x177 QR codes would hold about 346.2 KiB. You could store encryption keys in this way. You can probably push the density well past 177x177 even on a Mk4s pretty safely. I may try this later today.