Most of my shoulder issues are sleep related since I sleep on my side. Getting a body pillow system, was costly but kinda worth it. Helps with shoulder and GERD. Only issue is that it's kinda warm and I like to sleep cool.
I don't know what causes it, but even without major issues I think a lot of people continually loose range of motion in the shoulder as they age. So this doesn't surprise me.
Most people don't exercise to preserve muscle mass and function and especially don't do full range of motion resistance training, most of this is probably preventable.
Given that most commenters do not seem to have read the article perhaps the headline could be more explicit about 'MRIs find "abnormalities" but they seem to have no relationship to actual health problems"
Do they define if this relates to anything noticeable in your day to day?
For example, I can put my right hand above my shoulder and left hand near my lower back and easily connect both hands behind my back with fully interlocked fingers by converging in the middle. They reach to the other hand's palm.
But I can only barely touch my fingers with both hands if I switch it up so my left hand is up top.
I have no pain or day to day mobility issues but something is lopsided. Is that what they consider abnormal?
Just hit my mid twenties. Want to say I started having some shoulder issues around 20 years old. Although correlation =! causation, I largely think this is because of my lifelong computer usage and PC gaming. It doesn't bother me all the time, but every few months something will change up and it comes back. Surprisingly, my wrists and hands are completely fine, no carpal tunnel or anything similar.
Closely related to a huge problem in American health care --- overprescription, particularly of surgical procedure. There's evidence that some widespread classes of surgical intervention --- shoulder "impingement" in particular --- have outcomes no better than placebos in controlled trials where people literally get placebo incisions.
Best thing a doctor ever told me was "you CAN get imaging done, but I'd like to warn you that there is a near-certainty we'd find something wrong with your shoulder and your back".
I grew up in front of a PC as early as 6. I used it for everything. I grew up with it, on the internet as it was blossoming, and escaped through it as a means to escape reality, bullying, abusive household… you name it, from early Heat.net/mplay.net days, early mIRC CS alpha/beta/1.6 days, ICQ, MSN, VBasic coding, learning C/C++, to just about doing everything on a computer. Hell, I'm in the career I'm in because of it.
I escaped and escaped hard. If I couldn’t access it at home, I’d bike to the library and access it, or joined the computer club in HS just so I had another one I could easily hop on. All hours of the day, you name it. I even bumped into some wild early AOL Chat Room days that I'm pretty sure were some kind of a ring, but I digress.
I remember over the years comments like, “you look like you watch too much TV”. I barely watched TV. Or, “why are your shoulders always raised?”. I always said I'm carrying a heavy backpack with all my books. Or, “what’s wrong with your right neck?”, or “why are you corkscrewing to the left”. You name it. I just shrugged it off.
As the years went on, my jaw started to hurt, my right rotator cuff would crack all the time, my right ab snapped, my obliques weakened, my right hips started to fail, I don’t think I have a right scapula at this point, my molars no longer touched, my head jetted forward, my tongue tied, my lower jaw went to the left, my breathing worsened, it became shallow and short, my right-diaphragm hurts to inhale… I always blamed it on poor genetics, or something else, or "some accident I guess I don't remember".
It wasn’t until I hit 39 when it all kind of clicked.
It’s years of using a god damn mouse. Forward, right, back, left, circle motions, rinse and repeat, 12+ hours a day. In fact, even to this day I'm unable to use a mouse for more than 5 hours a day before the flares start. It's a numb pain. A 3/10 discomfort, but it's chronic.
I’m unable to sleep more than 4 hours a day without waking up with excruciating pain down my right shoulder and neck, unable to feel a large part of my right side, and the pain is getting worse by the day.
Ive done PT, chiro, acupuncture, personal trainer, you name it. THOUSANDS of dollars to no avail. In fact, I tried to do the 2000 pushup challenge for February (maybe a Canadian thing?) and I had to stop after 10 days due to INSANE right-shoulder flare-up.
Where’m I going with this?
Log off people. Stretch. Do exercise. Something before it’s too late.
I’m pretty sure we’re going to see more and more of “millennial” style abuse and neglect rear its ugly head.
Some years ago, I also started to have problems due to mouse use.
I experimented with alternative pointing devices. For a few years I have used trackballs. The change from mouse to trackball was good, but that still was not an optimum pointing device.
Eventually I have settled on replacing mice with small graphic tablets (Wacom Intuos S), configured in the "Relative" mode, instead of their default "Absolute" mode. The tablet is not bigger than a traditional mouse pad, so it does not take more space on the desk.
In this mode the tablets behave exactly like mice, but they are much more comfortable and also faster and more accurate. The comfort is due to the fact that you hold the extremely light stylus in a natural hand position and moving it to reach any point on the screen is instantaneous and effortless (even when only the fingers are used, without moving the hand). Moreover, touching the tablet instead of left click is also a more natural motion. The stylus is so light that I can also touch-type while keeping it between fingers, which speeds up the transitions between keyboard and pointing device, in comparison with a mouse that must be grabbed first.
Thus all my hand and arm problems have disappeared, regardless how many hours per day I use the pointing device.
I think there's another dimension to this, which is the toxic home life which led to these behaviors. Good luck unpacking this all and getting healthier.
It's much the same with degenerative changes in the spine. Almost every adult will have such changes and they do not seem to correlate with symptoms. Everyone's back is screwed up and only some people get back pain, and only sometimes in the same areas as the screwed up areas.
its bad framing to label this as "degenerative" and "screwed up" as nowadays we learn that there are probably more age-related. As you say, they correlate very poorly with pain.
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[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 32.8 ms ] threadFor example, I can put my right hand above my shoulder and left hand near my lower back and easily connect both hands behind my back with fully interlocked fingers by converging in the middle. They reach to the other hand's palm.
But I can only barely touch my fingers with both hands if I switch it up so my left hand is up top.
I have no pain or day to day mobility issues but something is lopsided. Is that what they consider abnormal?
I grew up in front of a PC as early as 6. I used it for everything. I grew up with it, on the internet as it was blossoming, and escaped through it as a means to escape reality, bullying, abusive household… you name it, from early Heat.net/mplay.net days, early mIRC CS alpha/beta/1.6 days, ICQ, MSN, VBasic coding, learning C/C++, to just about doing everything on a computer. Hell, I'm in the career I'm in because of it.
I escaped and escaped hard. If I couldn’t access it at home, I’d bike to the library and access it, or joined the computer club in HS just so I had another one I could easily hop on. All hours of the day, you name it. I even bumped into some wild early AOL Chat Room days that I'm pretty sure were some kind of a ring, but I digress.
I remember over the years comments like, “you look like you watch too much TV”. I barely watched TV. Or, “why are your shoulders always raised?”. I always said I'm carrying a heavy backpack with all my books. Or, “what’s wrong with your right neck?”, or “why are you corkscrewing to the left”. You name it. I just shrugged it off.
As the years went on, my jaw started to hurt, my right rotator cuff would crack all the time, my right ab snapped, my obliques weakened, my right hips started to fail, I don’t think I have a right scapula at this point, my molars no longer touched, my head jetted forward, my tongue tied, my lower jaw went to the left, my breathing worsened, it became shallow and short, my right-diaphragm hurts to inhale… I always blamed it on poor genetics, or something else, or "some accident I guess I don't remember".
It wasn’t until I hit 39 when it all kind of clicked.
It’s years of using a god damn mouse. Forward, right, back, left, circle motions, rinse and repeat, 12+ hours a day. In fact, even to this day I'm unable to use a mouse for more than 5 hours a day before the flares start. It's a numb pain. A 3/10 discomfort, but it's chronic.
I’m unable to sleep more than 4 hours a day without waking up with excruciating pain down my right shoulder and neck, unable to feel a large part of my right side, and the pain is getting worse by the day.
Ive done PT, chiro, acupuncture, personal trainer, you name it. THOUSANDS of dollars to no avail. In fact, I tried to do the 2000 pushup challenge for February (maybe a Canadian thing?) and I had to stop after 10 days due to INSANE right-shoulder flare-up.
Where’m I going with this?
Log off people. Stretch. Do exercise. Something before it’s too late.
I’m pretty sure we’re going to see more and more of “millennial” style abuse and neglect rear its ugly head.
I experimented with alternative pointing devices. For a few years I have used trackballs. The change from mouse to trackball was good, but that still was not an optimum pointing device.
Eventually I have settled on replacing mice with small graphic tablets (Wacom Intuos S), configured in the "Relative" mode, instead of their default "Absolute" mode. The tablet is not bigger than a traditional mouse pad, so it does not take more space on the desk.
In this mode the tablets behave exactly like mice, but they are much more comfortable and also faster and more accurate. The comfort is due to the fact that you hold the extremely light stylus in a natural hand position and moving it to reach any point on the screen is instantaneous and effortless (even when only the fingers are used, without moving the hand). Moreover, touching the tablet instead of left click is also a more natural motion. The stylus is so light that I can also touch-type while keeping it between fingers, which speeds up the transitions between keyboard and pointing device, in comparison with a mouse that must be grabbed first.
Thus all my hand and arm problems have disappeared, regardless how many hours per day I use the pointing device.
its bad framing to label this as "degenerative" and "screwed up" as nowadays we learn that there are probably more age-related. As you say, they correlate very poorly with pain.