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Ask HN: Ethics of applying to work at other companies

1 points by shanelja ↗ HN
I was wondering if anyone could help to shed some light on my situation:

I'm 19 and have been working as a PHP web developer in the north of England for 7 months now, though I've been programming for 3 years. I am paid far under what everyone else in my position is paid, though I get bi-monthly (but small) wage increases.

The amount of money I currently get from my work is not enough for me to live off, after paying rent, travel to work and council tax, I only have £6 left every 2 weeks. My current food bill is £3 per week. £3. And I have no more money after that.

I have found another job which offers over 3x what my current job does, requiring experience in technologies which I use daily and some of which I am certified in (E.G. I have my Google Certified Adwords and Analytics certificates.)

What are the ethics of my applying to the other job for an interview and could my boss fire me if he knew I was looking elsewhere?

8 comments

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kfullert
Also in the UK, have been working in development/consultancy since I was 17 (and now 32) so have been around a bit :)

Personal advice, go for it - there's no harm in applying and interviewing at other positions (I've never quit a job before looking for another, I've always had another job lined up first), if you get an offer you then have a decision to make - when you hand your notice in, depending on the company etc. they may make a counter-offer to keep you - don't depend on them making it (ie make sure you have a concrete offer/signed offer letter before handing your notice in) but you need to decide if there's any counter-offer they can make that will make you happy to stay.

Personally, I've never taken a counter-offer (there's a reason I'm leaving, and an offer made when I say I want to leave isn't going to work out long-term) but if they offer to bring your wage in-line with your colleagues make sure it's in writing, along with anything else you want (ie additional training courses/certifications with a time-frame for that to be actioned in)

And no, your boss can't fire you for looking elsewhere - depending on how comfortable with your boss you are, it might be worth bringing it up before you look ("hey, just to let you know I'm unhappy about x, y and z, is there anything the company can do for me, otherwise I'm unfortunately going to have to look at other options available to me")

shanelja
Thanks a lot, that's a fantastic response!

I really like my boss and it's a great company to work for, but the money is really a kicker. I'm not a greedy kind of person, I actually live a very modest lifestyle, but there are certain things a person who works full time in a skilled role should have, more than a single pair of shoes is an example.

fusiongyro
I agree with everything kfullert said, but wanted to add that the ethics here are quite clear: you've entered an employment agreement, which essentially says that as long as you're both happy and you both follow the rules, you'll continue to do the work and they'll continue to pay you. There's nothing unethical about realizing you're unhappy and leaving for employment somewhere else. You don't "owe" your employer anything other than the work you've agreed to do. It would be unethical to get paid to work on your CV or interview elsewhere, but there's nothing unethical about saying "I'm unhappy with this job" and getting another one. Jobs are a lot like relationships: both partners have to be happy, or it winds up being abusive, and once it's abusive, you're better off ending it than trying to rescue it.
shanelja
This makes a lot of sense, but I'm curious about whether leaving after 7 months will look bad on me if I go to an interview with another company. For instance, when I explain that it is due to money issues, will it make me look greedy or lacking dedication?
fusiongyro
No, for three reasons:

1. Nobody expects someone your age to have many years of continuous employment at one company on your CV. You're young. Capitalize on it.

2. Programming jobs have a fairly high turnover rate anyway. There is the tacit assumption that if you want better terms you'll find another job.

3. Nobody will ever think less of you for leaving an unfair employer. If they see many short stays on your CV they may start to wonder if you're the problem, but one or two aren't enough to be an indicator. Also, as your CV gets larger, you can omit 3 month jobs that didn't work out, and simply not talk about them while searching for a job.

shanelja
That's a good point, luckily, I'm quite fortunate, I left the UK for 2 years to live in Spain and spent nearly the entire time in constant employment, so I have a pretty good track record as far as past employment goes.

Thanks for taking your time to answer me :)

kfullert
I think in the industry I'm in (CRM consultancy) then "job-hopping" can look bad - it was mentioned at my last interview (end of last year) that my CV doesn't look the best for the amount of jobs I've had (9 different jobs in 15 years) however at your age I wouldn't expect it to be negative at all - I had 5 different jobs between the ages of 16 and 20 and it didn't hold me back at all.

When I'm happy in a position, I'll stay till the bitter-end (case in point, the dream-job I had I stayed there for 5 years, until the company went bankrupt) whereas 2 of my jobs have only lasted 6-9 months due to things not being right - things you don't pick up on in the interview or probation period, but you know it's something you can't happily live with.

Everyone has the right to do the best for themselves, and it's not greedy at all to want to have more than £3 a week left over from your bills to actually eat, which I'm assuming means you don't have any money left to socialise or do something just for you (which is important as well)

shanelja
I'm really glad to have received so much support, I expected wide-spread "stay" please to be perfectly honest.

And you are perfectly right, my social life has suffered, I couldn't go out for the Halloween parties with my friends, and it's quite demoralizing, especially when I see people who are on benefits and receiving more money to live off than me.