good writeup. I've been meaning to set this up for myself too. I keep uninstalling apps from my phone every other day because if I use something very little, I am afraid the app is collecting data from my usage in some way or the other.
I have a fairly new ish Pixel phone, do you think I'll be able to go back if I don't like it?
TBH What I wanted from the world is AOSP distribution. Built similarly to GrapheneOS in terms of distribution, ease of install. But I just don't feel I need all these privacy enhancements and stuff, I'm perfectly fine with ordinary system compiled from Google sources with proper update schedule. Also I don't want to see anything installed out of the box, except maybe single app to install AOSP apps, F-Droid, Play Store, just APK from the given URL. So basically almost empty mobile OS which user fully customizes, no predefined choices, no custom patches.
Personally I would just love Apple to be forced by governments to open up their hardware by releasing complete documentation of their hardware and allowing to install another os or dual boot. iPhones hardware is really good and would love booting Linux on theses. And then force every services company to provide an API to their services so we have an alternative to their app. I guess Motorola partnering with GrapheneOS will not change anything in this space because contactless payments and some apps will not work and fundamentally because the sales will be way below mainstream brands like Apple/Samsung. Governments need to step up here.
I’ve been using GrapheneOS for a couple of years now, and it’s been perfect for me. Contactless payments used to work fine, but then my bank switched to Google Wallet. Since then, I’ve just kept a physical card tucked behind my phone case so I can use it when needed.
I admire the de-Googled approach of GrapheneOS. As a lawyer, privacy concerns resonate with me too. I love the rebellious attitude of tech that presents an alternative choice in an overly duopolistic market.
That said, I wouldn't last 8.4 months like the author. Even though he admits to some Google app usage, I'm in too deep — I'd never be able to get out. But if I get the chance, I'd like to try it on a secondary phone. Those solid black icons are one reason. They look cool.
While this is good news, the cynical in me is waiting for Motorola GrapheneOS, with the changes that make it actually relevant for normies, and then the whole idea goes the way of netbooks.
For all the "My Banking Apps don't work", I'd raise one question:
Do you really need access to banking apps on the go? I get that it can be handy and maybe you legit do, but I'd wager most people don't really do. If you can pay by phone you can pay by card and the card has less potentially to weirdly break.
And if your bank demands a phone app to be used, you can always have a cheap stock android lying around at home. Can't get stolen or lost. Doesn't give big G any data on you, because that phone doesn't have anything but those apps.
But I also understand "just have a second phone" is not a tempting idea for many people. I am not much of a phone person, so I'm not a good case study, but it works fine for me.
In the UK at least, banking apps are how you give people cash when you owe them for dinner, drinks, whatever. It's also needed to authorise online payments. And for travel, location services is often used by the better banks as an alternative to immediately blocking your card every time you go anywhere. Then there are account perks[0] like airport lounges, co-working spaces, exercise classes, etc. that all use the app for access.
It'd be more than just a bit inconvenient to lose all of these things…
Luckily, all of my personal and business banking apps work fine on Graphene. Even the apps for the crusty old "bricks and mortar" banks that I still have backup accounts with.
[0] As an aside, Revolut Ultra in the UK costs less than the FT Digital subscription it includes so if you're an FT subscriber, all the other stuff that comes with the account is cheaper than free.
I run a degoogled Samsung, keep all my banking apps in a work profile. Ive been seeing a lot of people have issues with Graphene and banking apps, but wouldn't the work profile function on there too? Could you install the Google Play Services on the work profile and run it separately to your main phone?
My experience with seedvault is not as positive as the OP, it fails for about half my apps. I guess I have another year to fix this when the GrapheneOS enabled Motorola flagship comes out.
I carry both my iPhone 16 Plus and my Pixel 8 Pro, but limit my iPhone use to mobile banking, Apple Pay and Find My.
I have been using GrapheneOS now for 8 month and its been quite a smooth ride. The biggest worry I had was flashing it onto a brand new Pixel phone I had just bought. Everything else works fine though. Currently using 3 (german) banking apps and I haven't had a single issue. Also still using Google apps like camera and maps. Also Gboard as the default GrapheneOS keyboard is a bit uncomfortable. Really nice that you can just remove the network permissions and it works like a charm
I wanted GrapheneOS to deliver on its promises so bad, it sounds so good on paper.
And I should be the ideal user, a technical guy whose quality of life is directly impacted by a lack of privacy/security, highly motivated to use it correctly.
But the reality is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. Just leave your phone at home, this is a toy for privacy enthusiasts.
A well intentioned but fruitless hobby.
PSA: For folks looking for a swipe enabled keyboard on GrapheneOS without using Google's gboard, try Heliboard - https://f-droid.org/packages/helium314.keyboard/. It's 100% FOSS, but can also use the binary blob from google's gesture typing library "swypelibs" to provide swipe typing. Since helium can't access the internet, I am okay with that.
>Google Messages - for most of the last 8 months RCS was broken on GrapheneOS, but it's back now and Google messages is still the only option for messaging with family members on iOS.
I'm glad to hear that's finally fixed. That was my only pain point with GrapheneOS, but it got so bad I bought an iPhone when the 17's came out.
If the deal with Motorola helps GrapheneOS get better integration with the carriers, get a heads up about RCS changes ahead of time, get help fixing it, I'd happily switch back. I loved using GrapheneOS and iOS frustrates me daily.
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[ 9.9 ms ] story [ 79.2 ms ] threadI have a fairly new ish Pixel phone, do you think I'll be able to go back if I don't like it?
Uber couldn’t verify payment so I couldn’t take a ride when needed.
That said, I wouldn't last 8.4 months like the author. Even though he admits to some Google app usage, I'm in too deep — I'd never be able to get out. But if I get the chance, I'd like to try it on a secondary phone. Those solid black icons are one reason. They look cool.
Do you really need access to banking apps on the go? I get that it can be handy and maybe you legit do, but I'd wager most people don't really do. If you can pay by phone you can pay by card and the card has less potentially to weirdly break.
And if your bank demands a phone app to be used, you can always have a cheap stock android lying around at home. Can't get stolen or lost. Doesn't give big G any data on you, because that phone doesn't have anything but those apps.
But I also understand "just have a second phone" is not a tempting idea for many people. I am not much of a phone person, so I'm not a good case study, but it works fine for me.
It'd be more than just a bit inconvenient to lose all of these things…
Luckily, all of my personal and business banking apps work fine on Graphene. Even the apps for the crusty old "bricks and mortar" banks that I still have backup accounts with.
[0] As an aside, Revolut Ultra in the UK costs less than the FT Digital subscription it includes so if you're an FT subscriber, all the other stuff that comes with the account is cheaper than free.
My experience with seedvault is not as positive as the OP, it fails for about half my apps. I guess I have another year to fix this when the GrapheneOS enabled Motorola flagship comes out.
I carry both my iPhone 16 Plus and my Pixel 8 Pro, but limit my iPhone use to mobile banking, Apple Pay and Find My.
0 ads, 0 bloat, 0 unknown connections with maximum security.
I'm glad to hear that's finally fixed. That was my only pain point with GrapheneOS, but it got so bad I bought an iPhone when the 17's came out.
If the deal with Motorola helps GrapheneOS get better integration with the carriers, get a heads up about RCS changes ahead of time, get help fixing it, I'd happily switch back. I loved using GrapheneOS and iOS frustrates me daily.