Humanity is almost definitely going to wipe itself out in the not too distant future through an avoidable (if not for the selfish greed of many of us) climate change resource war Great Filter event.
This used to really bother me, but lately I'm thinking it is probably for the best.
Farming practices are already absolutely terrible.
And for reasons of arbitrary weight increase, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ractopamine is used in the USA. Doesnt degrade when cooked, so humans also get fat from it amongst other bad side effects. Banned in most countries, but not the USA. This is also why pork export is banned in most countries.
I know 1 person who is "allergic to pork". But European pork is fine. Even Canadian pork is fine. But what's different with US pork? Ractopamine.
To me, this is yet another reason why capitalism initially was great at making an economy, but profit-seeking behavior gets legally and ethically worse and one trades ethics for money.
This is a false dichotomy. The choice is not lab grown or suffering. Farmed animals could live happy, healthy lives and then be culled in a humane way.
The problem is that it costs slightly more and our society is more concerned with cost than animal suffering.
If you support this, visit one of the handful of restaurants selling it to show interest and support the companies. The salmon I had was ready for prime time in the right context, and if you didn't know, you probably wouldn't have noticed.
In nature, animals are routinely torn apart and devoured while still breathing.
In a proper rending facility, a captive bolt pneumatic/hydraulic pistol punctures their skull and sends a shockwave through their brains, killing them like Tony in the last scene of the Sopranos.
At least the thing with live animals is that they have to be kept within some kind of parameters to survive, with those parameters hopefully also leading to some level of food standards for us. I can’t even conceive of the kind of chemicals and processes that would be required to keep random meat-like cells alive without the rest of the body.
I think not so long from now the exotic meal experience for the young ones will be real grilled chicken that looks like a chicken. Like zebra or crocodile meat was for us northerners.
From my own little box I think that that if lab grown meat was available and affordable, I would never eat a bit of real chicken, pork or beef again. I know veganism is an option too, but... I grew up with meat and it's very difficult to give up.
Sometimes people look back on slavery as an institution and wonder "how did they ever do that?"
But the thing is, it was so ingrained economically and culturally.
In a hundred years (or less?) we will look back on meat from tortured animals with similar incredulity.
The abolitionist movement coincided with the industrial revolution. Maybe accessible meat replacements will have the same result.
The ship may have sailed for a lot of consumers. This along with EVs are one of those things that people try once and if they don't like it they won't try again. Probably helps to explain why all the stocks of these companies were riding high for quite a while but then collapsed.
How do you rebrand after people have already associated your product with past failed incumbents?
Anyone who's ever looked after and cared for pigs knows that this is very-very cruel. I would do the same with those humans(?) who wants this. Greed over everything. Disgusting
Does anyone else ever find it odd that in posts like this the person posts a sad picture of a pig instead of a screenshot of the page of the bill they're talking about?
I think "a provision that would condemn millions of pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates" is in fact horrific, however, outrage is the currency on places like X.
Posting a page number sounds specific, but then why not post the page (or quote it)? Particularly in any even remotely political environment where the default is "vote for (or oppose) this bill or you want [insert cute animal, baby, person, minority group] to die."
Just a tiny bit of source referencing could go a long way to help people better understand what you want them to support (or oppose).
fwiw, i found it helpful, i had no idea what a gestation crate is. i don’t think the photo is sad or manipulative, the sad part is what is being done to the pigs! and seeing a photo of what is done to the pigs is all i needed to make up my mind. it’s like the difference between posting a document that references “enhanced interrogation techniques” vs seeing a photo of what was actually done, it has a very different impact. i agree some kind of a citation would be nice though, so i don’t have to go digging about what to say when i contact my representative about.
Yeah, why would someone trying to drum up opposition to the measure show the real-world impacts of it instead of the (easily Googlable) dry legalese? Real thinker, there.
I find it odd we need legislation to prevent this.
There are not enough consumers to care? Or maybe with legislation we get better outcomes due to scaling effects?
If we are willing to use legislation, could we tax such gestation crates, and use that tax revenue to breed unconscious pigs? Or find a way to disable consciousness in their brain? Or fund lab meat? I'm sure small labs are doing this, but if we are at the point of legislation, I imagine there is enough willpower to solve this problem rather than bandaids.
Consumers probably don't know all of the conditions involved in making any of the products they buy. That information is generally not on the label, and even environmental and conditions based labels are often vague and hard to interpret.
Also in an economy of rising costs, people are going to choose affordable options even if they might be vaguely aware of worse conditions happening somewhere else, far away from the grocery store aisle where they are making that choice for their family.
> If we are willing to use legislation, could we tax such gestation crates, and use that tax revenue to breed unconscious pigs? Or find a way to disable consciousness in their brain? Or fund lab meat?
This is the kind of "big government libertarian" thinking that you only find on HN. It's like virtue signalling but the virtue is contrarianism. What you've suggested is more complicated, less ethical, less effective, and likely to be opposed by just about everyone across the political spectrum.
Voters do care, in both blue and red states, they already passed laws in their state to this effect. This is the federal government invalidating those laws.
If the billionaires in power thought that they could grow their wealth 1% more by forcing the rest of us humans into gestation crates, they would do it in a heartbeat.
I can understand and respect no meat people’s position (vegans etc), because it is consistent. Even if I disagree generally.
But how can I comprehend people who eat meat and okay with killing animals, but get outraged by so and so practices of growing them? Isn’t it a textbook definition of inconsistency and hypocrisy?
I just raised, slaughtered, and butchered five pigs myself.
My pigs took longer to raise because it is winter here and I gave them lots of room to run. The pigs had a good life right up until their kill time.
The reason pork is so cheap is that overseas meat providers can break all of these humane rules we have in the USA. We badly need high tariffs so businesses don't just go around all of our environmental and labor protection laws by importing products from overseas.
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[ 4.0 ms ] story [ 68.1 ms ] threadThere is a need for something like it, though. A sow will absolutely lay down on her piglets and suffocate them.
This used to really bother me, but lately I'm thinking it is probably for the best.
And for reasons of arbitrary weight increase, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ractopamine is used in the USA. Doesnt degrade when cooked, so humans also get fat from it amongst other bad side effects. Banned in most countries, but not the USA. This is also why pork export is banned in most countries.
I know 1 person who is "allergic to pork". But European pork is fine. Even Canadian pork is fine. But what's different with US pork? Ractopamine.
To me, this is yet another reason why capitalism initially was great at making an economy, but profit-seeking behavior gets legally and ethically worse and one trades ethics for money.
Meat is nice but would be better if we can skip the whole suffering thing
But debrained animals are certainly more plausible.
You just need a miminum interface to keep their bodies running. Cruelty free meat.
The problem is that it costs slightly more and our society is more concerned with cost than animal suffering.
If you support this, visit one of the handful of restaurants selling it to show interest and support the companies. The salmon I had was ready for prime time in the right context, and if you didn't know, you probably wouldn't have noticed.
In a proper rending facility, a captive bolt pneumatic/hydraulic pistol punctures their skull and sends a shockwave through their brains, killing them like Tony in the last scene of the Sopranos.
From my own little box I think that that if lab grown meat was available and affordable, I would never eat a bit of real chicken, pork or beef again. I know veganism is an option too, but... I grew up with meat and it's very difficult to give up.
I hope that never takes off. I’m not eating that shit for sure.
In a hundred years (or less?) we will look back on meat from tortured animals with similar incredulity.
The abolitionist movement coincided with the industrial revolution. Maybe accessible meat replacements will have the same result.
How do you rebrand after people have already associated your product with past failed incumbents?
lab grown meat is cancer. Good luck eating that.
I think "a provision that would condemn millions of pigs to a lifetime in gestation crates" is in fact horrific, however, outrage is the currency on places like X.
Posting a page number sounds specific, but then why not post the page (or quote it)? Particularly in any even remotely political environment where the default is "vote for (or oppose) this bill or you want [insert cute animal, baby, person, minority group] to die."
Just a tiny bit of source referencing could go a long way to help people better understand what you want them to support (or oppose).
The insane language in the sponsor's own press release tells me all I need to know about who the evil side on this bill is.
California prop 12: https://www.cde.ca.gov/ls/nu/fd/mb-fdp-03-2022-a.asp
If you live in the district of one of these people you might consider contacting them to let them know your opinion.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/4673...
R- means Republican
There are not enough consumers to care? Or maybe with legislation we get better outcomes due to scaling effects?
If we are willing to use legislation, could we tax such gestation crates, and use that tax revenue to breed unconscious pigs? Or find a way to disable consciousness in their brain? Or fund lab meat? I'm sure small labs are doing this, but if we are at the point of legislation, I imagine there is enough willpower to solve this problem rather than bandaids.
Also in an economy of rising costs, people are going to choose affordable options even if they might be vaguely aware of worse conditions happening somewhere else, far away from the grocery store aisle where they are making that choice for their family.
This is the kind of "big government libertarian" thinking that you only find on HN. It's like virtue signalling but the virtue is contrarianism. What you've suggested is more complicated, less ethical, less effective, and likely to be opposed by just about everyone across the political spectrum.
As an Iowan, it is obligatory to show love for Herbert Hoover and our pig population when called upon.
https://www.kcrg.com/2026/03/06/rep-hinson-speaks-iran-confl...
But how can I comprehend people who eat meat and okay with killing animals, but get outraged by so and so practices of growing them? Isn’t it a textbook definition of inconsistency and hypocrisy?
My pigs took longer to raise because it is winter here and I gave them lots of room to run. The pigs had a good life right up until their kill time.
The reason pork is so cheap is that overseas meat providers can break all of these humane rules we have in the USA. We badly need high tariffs so businesses don't just go around all of our environmental and labor protection laws by importing products from overseas.
https://www.humaneworld.org/en/blog/heres-why-pork-new-veal