So I assume Waymo will be immediately banned from any residential areas until they can demonstrate the ability to follow the laws of the road?
The problem is there is zero enforcement. We know the vehicle is not safe around schoolchildren so the appropriate incentive needs to be applied to get the issue addressed.
> Waymo, Cummings says, “should not be allowed to operate around schools during school pickup and drop-off until they get this problem fixed and can demonstrate it with specific tests.”
This commentor must misunderstand the situation. School busses regularly stop to pickup and drop off students on streets near where they live; and there's generally schools all around. If Waymos can't properly respond to school bus signals, they need to not operate in areas where these pickups and drop offs happen, which is not exclusively near schools.
And school busses go all sorts of places carrying kids to field trips and sporting events. Along with police/fire/ambulances, school busses are just another special type of vehicle that ALL drivers must learn to deal with. If you cannot act properly around a school bus, you shouldnt be on the road.
(Funny story: i was in Ottawa over the winter. There, snow plows, ambulances and fire trucks all use blue flashing lights. I thought i was being pulled over by a giant police truck ... it was a snow plow that really did not appreciate me stopping on the side of the road. Yet another special case vehicle.)
> A preliminary report by the NTSB published in early March found that one ensuing incident, on January 12, occurred after a Waymo remote assistant, a Michigan-based human tasked with “helping” the software when it was struggling on the road, incorrectly told the robotaxi that the school bus ahead of it didn’t have active signals on. Six vehicles passed the school bus while it was stopped, the agency said. It is still investigating.
I will let you judge for yourself here what the "right" thing for the Waymo to do was... but let's think critically about how Waymos work in the real world, benchmarked against other real drivers dealing with real life issues.
Obviously unacceptable to flaut the law. I do wonder what the risk profile is. Obviously kids can be eratic and unexpected, and coming out racing from behind a flat nosed pusher bus wouldn't be totally unheard of. But also do low key wonder if the Waymo's response time and speed might be enough so that there's not much real risk. The law and expectations ought be followed! But I am low key curious too, if perhaps the Waymo's infinite attention & seeming caution would mitigate the risk adequately.
The fact that it is passing stopped school buses does rather suggest that perhaps as cautious as it is, it still isn't smart enough to be cautious in the right ways.
So.. it sounds like they're doing a lot better to me? 19 cases in the fall, 4 between the recall in Novemberish and Jan, and 1 between them and now that occurred in Jaunary?
Also lol at this quote in the article "Six vehicles passed the school bus while it was stopped, the agency said. It is still investigating." What it doesn't note is that the other 5 seem to have been human driven passenger vehicles. From the NTSB report: "located in Novi, Michigan, replied “No” to the prompt. The ADS-equipped vehicle then resumed travel and passed the school bus while its stop arms were still extended. A passenger vehicle following the ADS-equipped vehicle similarly passed the school bus. In total, six vehicles passed the school bus while it was stopped. A crash did not occur.", so it sounds to me like 4 people passed it, waymo was like wtf I'm pretty sure that's a stopped bus, a human incorrectly identified it as not a bus, waymo passed it, and then one more person passed after the waymo.
The unfortunate situation is that self-driving vehicles need to be fantastically superior to human drivers to secure the public trust.
Self-driving vehicles that are much better than human drivers aren't enough.
It's similar to making alternative software targeting an entrenched incumbent. The disruptor needs to add value that overcomes the friction of switching at a minimum and then more to make it worthwhile.
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[ 4.8 ms ] story [ 43.5 ms ] threadThe problem is there is zero enforcement. We know the vehicle is not safe around schoolchildren so the appropriate incentive needs to be applied to get the issue addressed.
Why do you apply a different standard to waymos than to humans?
This commentor must misunderstand the situation. School busses regularly stop to pickup and drop off students on streets near where they live; and there's generally schools all around. If Waymos can't properly respond to school bus signals, they need to not operate in areas where these pickups and drop offs happen, which is not exclusively near schools.
(Funny story: i was in Ottawa over the winter. There, snow plows, ambulances and fire trucks all use blue flashing lights. I thought i was being pulled over by a giant police truck ... it was a snow plow that really did not appreciate me stopping on the side of the road. Yet another special case vehicle.)
I will let you judge for yourself here what the "right" thing for the Waymo to do was... but let's think critically about how Waymos work in the real world, benchmarked against other real drivers dealing with real life issues.
"A School District Tried to Help Train Waymos to Stop for School Buses. It Didn’t Work."
The fact that it is passing stopped school buses does rather suggest that perhaps as cautious as it is, it still isn't smart enough to be cautious in the right ways.
Also lol at this quote in the article "Six vehicles passed the school bus while it was stopped, the agency said. It is still investigating." What it doesn't note is that the other 5 seem to have been human driven passenger vehicles. From the NTSB report: "located in Novi, Michigan, replied “No” to the prompt. The ADS-equipped vehicle then resumed travel and passed the school bus while its stop arms were still extended. A passenger vehicle following the ADS-equipped vehicle similarly passed the school bus. In total, six vehicles passed the school bus while it was stopped. A crash did not occur.", so it sounds to me like 4 people passed it, waymo was like wtf I'm pretty sure that's a stopped bus, a human incorrectly identified it as not a bus, waymo passed it, and then one more person passed after the waymo.
Self-driving vehicles that are much better than human drivers aren't enough.
It's similar to making alternative software targeting an entrenched incumbent. The disruptor needs to add value that overcomes the friction of switching at a minimum and then more to make it worthwhile.