Ask HN: Why don't you work less?

37 points by martinwnet ↗ HN
Simple question.

Why don't you only work 6 or 9 months of the year? Or 4 days a week[1]?

In your newfound time you could work on personal/charity projects or add some more to the "life" part of work-life balance, or do anything else you wish.

I think it would be harder to find a 4-day-week job, but taking 3 or 6 months off per year should be doable in this profession due to the nature of the work and very high earnings.

[1] http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3883268

64 comments

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I just went from five days to three days a week in my job in industry in order to work as a researcher the other two days. I had to take a pay cut to do so, and I was lucky that my company was happy for me to do this.

So far, it's working out great - I do the research work from home, occasionally commuting to uni, and it's great to have the balance of academia and real life work.

Were you a researcher before, or are you trying to get into research now?
I did a PhD and a Knowledge Transfer Partnership with my current company, but this is my first proper research job.
Who do you work for in industry? It sounds like an awesome arrangement.
I work for a media monitoring and analysis company. It's a special arrangement, and the research is potentially beneficial to them, so it's probably a one-off.
I went back to university and had to work less as a consequence. I'm very happy of my decision.

Of course, my earnings took a serious hit, and that's probably the biggest reason only few people do work less. But I consider it was worth it!

Because I would have trouble paying the bills. The demand for software engineers in Malaysia is...lacking.
I know some folks that do.

Software Engineer salaries in the UK are generally pretty good, but not really equivalent to their US counterparts, so a lot of folks can't really afford to do this.

As a contractor/freelancer I make more money but have a lot less security and have to look for new contracts once in a while. I anticipate being able to take a couple of months off each year though. The problem is that work translates directly to income, so I could take those two months off, or I could get that new car or pay down my mortgage by a chunk.

Because I don't earn _that_ much. I earn enough to be very comfortable (around twice median wages), but not enough to just take months off work.

Also, I enjoy large chunks of it.

Twice median wages means that you should actually be comfortably able to take 6 months off each year. Of course I understand also why you wouldn't want to sacrifice that money for more more free time, I'm just telling this is a decision more than a pure need.
That would only be true if he had the spending habits (house, car, etc) that matched the life of someone on a median wage. i.e. no keeping up with the jones'.
This is only true if I'm living in either a median-priced city (which Edinburgh is not) or a low-priced home in a more expensive city (which, frankly, are not nice).

I could certainly take the time off, if I was willing to share a flat with other people rather than owning my own home - but dividing my wages in half would make my mortgage completely unaffordable - and the kind of mortgage I could afford would then have me living miles away from work and commuting long distances. Or living in horribly deprived areas.

Your statement assumes that the median wage produces a reasonable standard of living for everyone, no matter where in the country they live, and that's simply not true.

Unless you're a consulting, I don't think it's really possible as a programmer to take 3 months off every year. If I could, I would though.
Unless you're a consulting, I don't think it's really possible as a programmer to take 3 months off every year. If I could, I would though.
Oddly enough I'm trying to work more so I can do three months off/pay off debts. Dont' think I'd want to work less then I currently do.
I do, problem is, I'm extremely lazy, I cant work for long periods of time because i get fed up with it, but i've found a way to deal with it and make good money. I'm a contractor. I work anywhere from 1 week to 3 months at a time in a place, get paid a day rate and then take some time off and repeat.

My current earn to frugal living ratio is: 5 working days buys me a month of living expenses.

Currently though i'm working very hard because i'm in the process of buying a non-tech real world "lifestyle" business that will run with minimal hours after a initial time investment peroid, which should allow me to give up contracting completely, should i choose to.

mind sharing what kind of business this is? I'd like to do the same at some point soon..
Yes, please share. I didn't know this was possible.
This is just standard contracting where you apply for jobs that only last a certain length of time. This isn't uncommon in the UK IT industry.

I notice some Americans will call freelancing contracting even though they mean two very different things over here.

As a contractor, you generally have several years of experience in a technology (let's say Oracle ATG ecommerce platform). Companies that want to implement ATG may not want to hire a full time and permanent group of Software Engineers as building software is not there business, instead, they will hire a contracting firm, someone like IBM, Oracle or Accenture. These firms send people to the client to work in the new implementation on contracts that could last from 1 month to 12 months (for example).

Sometimes companies and consultancies will hire independent consultants (like the parent poster) who will join a company for a just a few months / until the project is done then they will go and join a new company so on and so forth.

Contractors generally charge per day (a good friend of mine charges £500 per day) and they have no employee benefits.

It's a tough market but if you have the right skills (tech and otherwise) you can earn yourself some very good money.

Some Americans think that there freelancing efforts are the same as contracting. This may be the case in some instances but a lot of the time I see people claiming that you don't need much experience go contracting and it's easy work to get if you try hard etc etc. These are usually Americans that are getting confused between the professional service offering that is contracting and the low value informal work they do which I would call freelancing.

EDIT: the parent just told us he was talking about a cleaning business. What I have described is IT contracting.

Yeah, exactly what you described is what i do with my main tech skillset. :)
(comment deleted)
Sure, its a cleaning business that cleans offices. Its not really the business i'm buying, its the rounds from an existing cleaning business that does other things like windows and carpets etc.

The existing owner is the hardest working guy i've met, used to be in the Army so has a proper work ethic. Thing is, hes not very good with people, hes got an abrasive personality, which doesnt bother me at all but i can see how its not good for managing people, and hes fully aware of this and doesnt want to manage people either. He currently does all the rounds himself for a total of a 60 hour work week in addition to his other things. I've already made hires to take over this and i'll manage them. Its going to be hard work to begin with but its an automatable system.

After expenses, it should generate £20k-£25k a year which is enough for me to live on frugally. I'll ideally expand it to generate more over the next year though. I'm paying less than the yearly profit to buy it as well, so its a damn good deal.

Everybody I know who earns anywhere close to enough to take 6 month of the year off work themselves half to death. 60-80 hour weeks (or more), all-nighters, weekends, hardly any time off etc. etc.

Not interested.

I'm much happier working 40 hours a week, never having to work over the weekends, hardly ever having to do any over time or face ridiculous deadlines, and having a reasonable number of vacation days I can spread out through the year. I consider this a much better work-life balance and I'm equally happy taking a pay cut to get this.

"Everybody I know who earns anywhere close to enough to take 6 month of the year off work themselves half to death."

This isn't true for everyone, it just depends on your lifestyle. In Silicon Valley you can earn 100k a year being a programmer that asks for standard 9-5 hours (or 10-6), so the real question is whether you can live on ~50k a year.

Because I don't make that much money.

Because I enjoy working.

Because, with 3 kids at home, work is a lot less work than being home. The most exhausting week this entire year was the vacation we took to the beach.

Because working in a flourishing start-up/hoping to strike it rich/etc etc blah blah blah.
I work anywhere from 100 to 130 hours a month. I find I don't end up doing anything productive with the time off. I have a list of side projects I want to do, but non have been touched.

Instead I usually ride my bike. Which is productive in it's own way, and more the lifestyle I want anyway.

Many HNers do, in fact, have very non-traditional work schedules. (For roughly the same reason why many have very non-traditional salaries. By the way, both are probably underreported out of modesty.)
a - Because I don't make that much money

b - Because it's not an easily available option. It's not impossible but having this kind of a "requirement" would be pretty limiting.

but taking 3 or 6 months off per year should be doable in this profession due to the nature of the work and very high earnings.

It would be doable money-wise but I would think it would be hard to find a company willing to go along with this arrangement- although if people know otherwise I'd love to hear which companies offer this level of flexibility. In the past, others have suggested using the time between jobs for this - but (in the US at least) you'd still need to pay into COBRA if you wanted your health insurance to continue during that time. Also, having worked through the dot-com period at the beginning of the last decade, I'm always a little cautious about assuming that it will be easy to land the next gig.

If I worked less, I'd want to spend the extra free time doing something important. The problem is, I don't think there's anything I could spend my time on that would be (a) more important than my normal work and (b) at least as likely to succeed as my normal work. I'm much more likely to do something I can be proud of if I put all of my time into one project rather than splitting it between several different projects.

If work is just a thing you do for money, then minimizing the amount of time you spend doing it makes sense. If you actually find work satisfying and care about the results, then I think it often makes sense to devote as much time as possible without causing yourself to stop enjoying it or become unproductive.

Having said that, I do try to reserve some time for side projects because that's a good way to develop new skills that I can apply to my main project.

"If you actually find work satisfying and care about the results, then I think it often makes sense to devote as much time as possible without causing yourself to stop enjoying it or become unproductive." But would you still work (doing the same thing) if you had 100000000$?

"If I worked less, I'd want to spend the extra free time doing something important." Why do you focus on doing important things and not what-you-like-things?

Keeping in mind I'm a younger, single person with no serious debt and I live fairly frugally; I haven't taken a contract in a couple months. I'm currently living off of the money from my last contract and working on a startup idea I formed during my "time off". (note: I don't take time off, I love programming too much. The time off is just from clients so I can explore things like Monads and Macros... Mmmmm M&M's).

I find out about my YC application tomorrow, so I may not need to take client work for awhile, If I don't get an in person interview for YC, I will probably need to pick up a contract before January.

tldr; I do only work between 6-9 months a year or less.

I do work less. I don't think it's unusual for consultants. But my neighbors, family, and other people in my life definitely think it's weird.
In my old job I was longing after more time off and more time to do other things. Yet I was spending about 2* 3 weeks abroad every year.

Now however, I do not feel the same need for this. I love my job, I get to do some (not meeting intense) travelling with it and I love the people I work with and what I do. Basically I don't my job is what I do for fun.

That's why I work more now.

In my old job I was longing after more time off and more time to do other things. Yet I was spending about 2* 3 weeks abroad every year.

Now however, I do not feel the same need for this. I love my job, I get to do some (not meeting intense) travelling with it and I love the people I work with and what I do. Basically I don't my job is what I do for fun.

That's why I work more now.

Because I'm paranoid that either the industry gets hammered (jobs go away or salaries fall) or my own ability to earn somehow goes away. I work a lot and save a lot now because I can. I don't judge other approaches negatively, but I'm hardwired from an early age to work like this.
You're probably right to worry about losing the ease of employment and high salary as only a minority of the jobs require very high levels of skill.

The real reason for the high salaries is because there aren't very many developers. However, from what I can see, there are machinations underway which will correct a lot of the supply problems over the next couple of decades. Many governments are pushing for primary school computer science education, and we have hacker schools and startups like codeacademy springing up everywhere. The money and success is going to attract the general public[0][1] many of which are finding it very difficult to get jobs, and they will come despite the perceived geekyness of the profession ultimately causing a cultural shift[2] before everything stabilises. Sort of like a mini gold rush.

That's my two pence anyway... :)

[0] http://www.thesocialnetwork-movie.com/

[1] http://www.bravotv.com/start-ups-silicon-valley/season-1/abo...

[2] I suspect we will eventually lose high average salaries but gain higher status as development becomes a more socially acceptable job.

I'm not self-employed, so I have to follow the general guidelines laid down by others with respect to employment. This includes working 5 days a week for the full year.

I have other flexibilitties associated with my job, like flexible work hours, telecommuting and open vacation policy, but it doesn't change the expectation of me being in the office 5 days a week as a general rule of thumb.

I'm not self-employed, so I have to follow the general guidelines laid down by others with respect to employment. This includes working 5 days a week for the full year.

I have other flexibilitties associated with my job, like flexible work hours, telecommuting and open vacation policy, but it doesn't change the expectation of me being in the office 5 days a week as a general rule of thumb.