The EU has a problem with a lack of legitimisation of the whole political construct and other power players know about this weakness. The degree of freedom in political decision is strongly inhibited.
This wouldn't solve any problems either, on the contrary. Personally I don't feel like a EU citizen. It is like being a citizen of a bureaucratic monster that serves no specific function. That tries to justify its existence not through being a guardian of common values, but a bureaucracy of not-quite-experts.
I genuinely wonder about people that feel patriotic about the EU. I have nothing against them, I just don't want to share the same house.
Orban was someone to point the finger to for what feels like decades. To see this result and extract a mission to extend EU powers is delusional in my opinion.
Brussels appears to be extremely tone deaf to the basic needs of ordinary people, and taking further steps in a direction to centralize power is just going to push more people to the far right.
For example, the fact that right-wing governments in central and eastern Europe are protecting their borders, represents a very popular perspective, apparently shared by very few in the EU governing body.
Consolidating power at a moment when many EU policies are clearly unpopular seems like it will have unintended consequences.
Out of curiosity, can there not be something like a two party or N party veto? i.e. requiring a minimum of two or N parties to work together to veto?
The choice between just a single party having a veto power vs no party with veto powers seems a little black and white to me. Happy to be enlightened on the matter.
I remember clearly that 20 years ago when they were trying to pass their constitution they were saying: "do not worry we can transfer all power to the EU because any country could always veto it so it is safe"
As a Pole, I am torn. It would help fight Russian advances for sure, but it would also mean appeasing Israel. Spain's fierce stance against genocide in Palestine would be nearly impossible in a collective EU foreign policy.
> Hmmm, what would I do if giving up the right to veto hinged on my veto power?
If you're like most politicians, you would do what most politicians do - bargain.
For example: agree on veto removal but keep farm subsidies for another X years, or unblock the new "common debt" fund (or enshrine "no common debt fund", depending on which way you lean).
Member states politicians have made far more far-reaching decisions for far less: let us not forget Cameron promised the Brexit referendum to increase his chances of winning an election - and then, fascinatingly, followed through.
As an EU citizen from a small state with little real power in the bloc, I'm all for the replacement of veto with a quorum. I'd not want to see EU deadlocked over any major issue just because any tiny country with the population of a London borough can wield it to settle a score with their neighbour.
Ask any Macedonian what they had to go through for the EU carrot. First they were vetoed by Greece because it didn't like the name. Fine, they changed it. Then they were vetoed by France (which previously was fine with this) because whatever.
Or ask any Ukrainian what they think of essential monetary aid, approved by (representatives of) a few hundred million Europeans, being held hostage by Putin's chum.
Even in less life-or-death cases, there's a lot of really (long-term) damaging horse-trading behind the scenes to wring concessions of everyone because of the veto problem. It's a perversion of democracy.
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[ 2.5 ms ] story [ 33.9 ms ] threadThis wouldn't solve any problems either, on the contrary. Personally I don't feel like a EU citizen. It is like being a citizen of a bureaucratic monster that serves no specific function. That tries to justify its existence not through being a guardian of common values, but a bureaucracy of not-quite-experts.
I genuinely wonder about people that feel patriotic about the EU. I have nothing against them, I just don't want to share the same house.
Orban was someone to point the finger to for what feels like decades. To see this result and extract a mission to extend EU powers is delusional in my opinion.
What a ridiculous sentence. He’s an autocrat, but he’s out of power after losing a democratic election. Which is it?
Words have meaning.
For example, the fact that right-wing governments in central and eastern Europe are protecting their borders, represents a very popular perspective, apparently shared by very few in the EU governing body.
Consolidating power at a moment when many EU policies are clearly unpopular seems like it will have unintended consequences.
Hmmm, what would I do if giving up the right to veto hinged on my veto power?
The choice between just a single party having a veto power vs no party with veto powers seems a little black and white to me. Happy to be enlightened on the matter.
> Hmmm, what would I do if giving up the right to veto hinged on my veto power?
If you're like most politicians, you would do what most politicians do - bargain.
For example: agree on veto removal but keep farm subsidies for another X years, or unblock the new "common debt" fund (or enshrine "no common debt fund", depending on which way you lean).
Member states politicians have made far more far-reaching decisions for far less: let us not forget Cameron promised the Brexit referendum to increase his chances of winning an election - and then, fascinatingly, followed through.
As an EU citizen from a small state with little real power in the bloc, I'm all for the replacement of veto with a quorum. I'd not want to see EU deadlocked over any major issue just because any tiny country with the population of a London borough can wield it to settle a score with their neighbour.
Ask any Macedonian what they had to go through for the EU carrot. First they were vetoed by Greece because it didn't like the name. Fine, they changed it. Then they were vetoed by France (which previously was fine with this) because whatever.
Or ask any Ukrainian what they think of essential monetary aid, approved by (representatives of) a few hundred million Europeans, being held hostage by Putin's chum.
Even in less life-or-death cases, there's a lot of really (long-term) damaging horse-trading behind the scenes to wring concessions of everyone because of the veto problem. It's a perversion of democracy.
I don't think this will fly, but I wish it did.
[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47755919