Author here, if you don't want to read all that, I'll post one excerpt that I think sums it up nicely:
> My point is, the spec must live somewhere, even if you don’t write it down. The spec is what you want the software to be. It often exists only in your head or in conversations. You and your team and your business will always care what the spec says, and that’s never going to change. So you’re better off writing it down now! And I think that a plain old list of acceptance criteria is a good place to start. (That’s really all that `feature.yaml` is.)
the token usage isn’t sustainable. formal english is a barrier but requirement for specification. brevity is the language of money and that’s the premise of management using ai.
fyi language alone can’t define/describe requirements which is why UML existed.
I use OpenSpec for my spec management, and I scrolled down to the comparison. The gripe seems to be with a semantic difference. Specs describing a current system is the basis for AS/IS Gap Analysis.
Also, I mainly pursue these tools so that I can have AI accelerate this process and broker an agreement after negotiating specs with the agent.
Completely subjective take, but I feel like 95% of these "tools" that are prompt-engineering inventions created by the authors with their bias and to suit their needs don't have anything supporting them besides the authors' subjective experience.
I have seen the same idea with processes, pipelines, lists, bullet points, jsons, yamls, trees, prioritization queues all for LLM context and instruction alignment. It's like the authors take the structure they are familiar with, and go 100% in on it until it provides value for them and then they think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
I would like, for once, to see some kind of exploration/abalation against other methods. Or even better, a tool that uses your data to figure out your personal bias and structure preference for writing specs, so that you can have a way of providing yourself value.
YAML is one of the worst technologies ever invented, it has more warts than features. One of the benefits of LLMs is that they can write YAML for me, wherever I am forced to use it.
Otherwise, I like the idea of machine-readable specs.
Could it be that slop PRs are less frequently rejected/commented due to (unfortunate) increased acceptance of it?
As it turns out when maxxing AI on leaf parts of a program, the quality of the code doesn't matter that much anymore when compared to building the fundament.
> We are entering the post-slop era. My software is more robust, better tested, better integrated, and more observable than ever before. And my velocity keeps increasing!
Don't we just love the hard fact conclusions based on sample size N=1 and hand-waving arguments?
Old ist new I guess. This is independent of whether A"I" or a human executes, the point is that you need this if specifying and execution lie apart, be it in time or space. This is basically the whole point of the V-Model and processes (if used correctly as a tool and not preferred as goals) and was already researched an formalized in the 60s and 70s.
What is it with people and procrastinating with the most useless shit you can imagine?
First it was choice of editor: people were micro optimizing every aspect of their typing experience, editor wars where people would literally slaughter over suggesting another camp.
Editor wars v2: IDEs arrived and second editor war began.
Revenge of the note taking apps: Obsidian/Roam/Joplin/Apple Notes/Logseq. Just one plugin, just one more knowledge graph, bro, and I’ll have peak productivity. 10x is almost here.
AI: you’re witnessing it now.
Do people NOT have anything else in life? How are y’all finding time to do all of this shit? Are you doing it on company time? Do you have hobbies, do you learn foreign languages, travel, have kids or spouses, drive a car, other thousand “normie” things outside of staring at the freaking monitor or thinking about this shit 24/7? Did I miss the invention of a Time Machine?
I just spent a week training up in spec driven development through bmad, which was awful, and speckit which was ok but not great. Both had what seemed like unnecessary ceremony around the specs, generating fields of spec documents which presumably fill up the context window quickly. I just kept thinking "this should be using something simpler, all this markdown is unnecessary"
So...is this just Cucumber cough cough behavior driven design again, but stored in YAML so that LLMs can read it easier by loading the AST instead of tokenizing the text?
OMG I forgot all about cucumber, but wow the "cucumber cycle" of old sounds a lot like LLM psychosis of today. As in, the solution to cucumber problems was always to invest more into cucumber! Add more operations! Integrate more things into it!
Did cucumber go away? I never hear about it anymore.
I also have started numbering my Acceptance criteria and pushing that across the team(s). It’s going pretty well. Some note however are
1. Don’t write in yaml. It’s really hard for humans. Write in markdown and use a standard means to convert to lists / yaml.
2. Think beyond you writing your own specs - how does this expand into teams of tens or more. The ticketing system you have (jira? Bugzilla) is not designed for discussion of the acceptance criteria. I think we are heading into a world of waterfall again where we have discussions around the acceptance criteria. This is not a bad thing - is used to be called product management and they would write an upfront spec.
If this new world of a tech and a business user lead the writing of a new spec (like a PEP) and then then AI implements it and it’s put into a UAT harness for larger review and a daily cycle begins, we might have something.
65 comments
[ 18.2 ms ] story [ 56.9 ms ] thread> My point is, the spec must live somewhere, even if you don’t write it down. The spec is what you want the software to be. It often exists only in your head or in conversations. You and your team and your business will always care what the spec says, and that’s never going to change. So you’re better off writing it down now! And I think that a plain old list of acceptance criteria is a good place to start. (That’s really all that `feature.yaml` is.)
fyi language alone can’t define/describe requirements which is why UML existed.
Also, I mainly pursue these tools so that I can have AI accelerate this process and broker an agreement after negotiating specs with the agent.
I have seen the same idea with processes, pipelines, lists, bullet points, jsons, yamls, trees, prioritization queues all for LLM context and instruction alignment. It's like the authors take the structure they are familiar with, and go 100% in on it until it provides value for them and then they think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
I would like, for once, to see some kind of exploration/abalation against other methods. Or even better, a tool that uses your data to figure out your personal bias and structure preference for writing specs, so that you can have a way of providing yourself value.
[1] https://www.lat.md/
Otherwise, I like the idea of machine-readable specs.
Don't we just love the hard fact conclusions based on sample size N=1 and hand-waving arguments?
This industry has become a parody of itself, and people are celebrating.
First it was choice of editor: people were micro optimizing every aspect of their typing experience, editor wars where people would literally slaughter over suggesting another camp.
Editor wars v2: IDEs arrived and second editor war began.
Revenge of the note taking apps: Obsidian/Roam/Joplin/Apple Notes/Logseq. Just one plugin, just one more knowledge graph, bro, and I’ll have peak productivity. 10x is almost here.
AI: you’re witnessing it now.
Do people NOT have anything else in life? How are y’all finding time to do all of this shit? Are you doing it on company time? Do you have hobbies, do you learn foreign languages, travel, have kids or spouses, drive a car, other thousand “normie” things outside of staring at the freaking monitor or thinking about this shit 24/7? Did I miss the invention of a Time Machine?
This seems like the answer to that thought!
Did cucumber go away? I never hear about it anymore.
This industry is just getting more and more bonkers.
1. Don’t write in yaml. It’s really hard for humans. Write in markdown and use a standard means to convert to lists / yaml.
2. Think beyond you writing your own specs - how does this expand into teams of tens or more. The ticketing system you have (jira? Bugzilla) is not designed for discussion of the acceptance criteria. I think we are heading into a world of waterfall again where we have discussions around the acceptance criteria. This is not a bad thing - is used to be called product management and they would write an upfront spec.
If this new world of a tech and a business user lead the writing of a new spec (like a PEP) and then then AI implements it and it’s put into a UAT harness for larger review and a daily cycle begins, we might have something.
Good luck
I wanted to star the project to track the progress but it feels a bit weird.. Which repo shall I track? Server? Cli? Sounds like a misc repos.