I recently bought a hybrid, and had been trying to wrap my brain around how it had an Atkinson engine in it. Was imagining a solenoid-driven crankshaft linkage or similar. Loved learning from this video that the secret is in valve timing and not fancy linkages.
But. The other points made felt muddled or even contradictory. I either didn't follow the TC guy's explanation closely enough, or the script could have used another pass.
I'm assuming that right now all valves as computer controlled so why we cannot have best of both worlds?
cannot we dynamically switch between Otto and Atkinson cycles by just changing valve profiles?
computer could use Otto cycle in case more power is needed in rare situations
Watching the graphs during the driving segment helped me more than his explanation, but maybe I'm visual about it? It's interesting to see when the battery is being used.
I've seen some modern hybrids just have a visualizer for this on the dash to encourage you to coast more and things, which seems about as helpful in understanding it too.
Before seeing the sibling comment here this is muddled or contradictory -- I'd shared the link on (having watched it in full) noting this may be the best explainer of this nature for its target persona that I've seen.
I saw some parts of this video, so I'm not sure it was mentioned, but the key parameter that is optimized at all times in a hybrid is brake specific fuel consumption:
This is possible (and done) in any automatic, but in hybrids it was taken to the extreme, with electric motors covering for situations when either the RPM or torque are not where desired.
In fact, my experience is that during highway driving it's actually slightly off the optimal point, charging the battery in the process. I speculate that it's so that the surplus power can be released immediately by just making the electric motor stop acting as a generator and go into, well, motor mode.
I have a conventional (not plug-in) hybrid Toyota Corolla as otherwise I'd have to pay loads to drive it in the city.
It does get crazy mileage and drives well so I can't complain. They are more expensive than standard cars though and you can't leave it in neutral which is a problem in some car washes.
Why do you need to put it in neutral in a car wash? Does it push the car forwards?
You can put the Toyotas in neutral, but you need to lift a special hatch and manually unlock the shifter. You need to do that if you're being towed. It's all in the manual, of course. I saw the hatch immediately. It's crazy to me that other geeks haven't checked every knob and hatch in their car or at least skimmed the manual.
Yeah, some car washes put the car on a track thing that moves it forwards.
I can put it in neutral, but the battery depletes and eventually an alarm sounds. I had AC on as I live in an extremely hot climate so I suppose it is a bigger problem here.
So this is specifically about Toyota's hybrid engines (which is very different from e.g. Honda's engine, not to mention plug-in hybrids or "mild hybrids"). The explanation of the mechanics starts around the 36 minute mark.
I always found most explanations of Toyota's Power Split Device too abstract, until I found this page where you can play with the sliders to see how the power is actually split between the ICE and the MG1/MG2 electric generators: https://eahart.com/prius/psd/
The Prius model is basically how the new Honda hybrid power train works. (I'm gearing up to buy a new Civic once my insurance gets me my payout.) It has a two motor system (traction and generator) coupled to an Atkinson cycle engine with a planetary gearbox.
However, it's a 2L engine and the whole thing puts down 200hp, netting acceleration that beats a Civic SI and ~50 miles per gallon.
They first trialed it in Japan and Europe as the Civic EHEV a few years ago, and as of 2025 it has replaced the Sport and Sport Touring trims' former turbocharged 1.5L power train.
Hmm - I’m not an expert on this, but I thought the e:HEV system was quite different.
More like an engine connected to a single very long gear (like top gear), to avoid converting from physical motion to electricity and back to physical motion, at motorway speeds. And also a clutch, to disconnect that system completely, in which case the combustion engine can drive a generator, and send electricity to another motor driving the wheels. Plus there’s a battery involved, and the motors can assist or regen when the physical drivetrain is connected.
It’s all very cool, and I expect even more efficient than the Toyota system on the open road, but a little less during city driving. I can go into why I think that, but I’m not even sure I’m right :)
Edit: I just wanted to add, that Civic with this drivetrain always seemed like a good choice.
I’ve tried to test-drive a Honda with this setup twice. Once the dealer misunderstood me and I drove some boring mild-hybrid CVT Insight or something. I would have even been happy trying out the dual-clutch hybrid they were using in some models then. I’d already driven their mild hybrid a few times. It got good mileage, but not as good as Toyota’s system, and didn’t have anything else going for it. The second time I hadn’t realised that they didn’t even bring this Civic into the country. We drove the regular CVT anyway, but it was a huge disappointment, knowing other countries had the e:HEV.
2nd edit: I incorrectly called the combustion engine “the motor”, which is something I do all the time, but need to avoid when talking about hybrids
The title doesn't match the point of the video. What he is trying to show is the world would be a better place if we could establish that hybrids come in two flavors: Toyota and non-Toyota. There's really no better hybrid design. Unfortunately that means they aren't scrapped after decades, and Mongolia has become a dumping ground for them.[1] So it still is the best hybrid drivetrain in the world, but much like plastic or PFAS or some other very long term problems, the old battery cannot be cheaply scrapped. Toyota's new lithium models like the Sienna in the video have solved that, but now you're just half-assing a conventional EV until solid state systems are ready. By 2030 I expect the last Toyota hybrid to be announced.
Oh, it's a hybrid Sienna minivian! Now I'm bitter, because I was looking at those for the family a couple years back, but stock was low and they were priced $15k higher than a 3-row gas-guzzling SUV.
Actually, another thing was that the visibility out of the Sienna seemed quite bad.
I always thought the problem with hybrids was the complexity of the drive train, but this video is challenging that notion. It argues that the hybrid pack (minus the battery, perhaps?) is more compact and simpler than a manual gearbox, even. It consists of two electric motors and a planetary gear set, which is seemingly simpler than clutch packs, gear sets and belts of regular transmissions, including CVTs.
Time codes 3:06, 37:07, 43:57, 43:36 (note on the eCVT naming), and 44:17.
If nobody understands them, why would I watch this video - Either he also doesn't understand them, therefore why would I watch? Or he does understand them, in which case the title is incorrect, therefore why would I watch?
The toyota hybrid transmission is genuinely brilliant. Probably one of the most important and broadly overlooked innovations in automobile technology this century.
My experience with hybrids have been.... mostly positive, good mileage, Toyota's drive very well, but.. I would not buy one for one pedantic, silly reason: I hate the government mandated banshee howling sound. Many ICE vehicles are just as quiet as an EV without the fake noise, and while I am not discounting that quiet vehicles can pose a hazard to pedestrians, the howling is just.. utterly obnoxious.
Watched this when it came out. I felt like it had that typical Technology Connections problem where it will take one under explored point along a Pareto frontier and conflate it for the global optimal design.
At least that was my experience with the toaster, microwave, and dishwasher detergent episodes.
While Hybrid System II is very clever and non-intuitive coming from an ICE or EV frame of reference there are reasons even Toyota hasn’t placed all their chips on this bet. In fact as Japan’s largest manufacturer they want to have a bet on every point of Pareto frontier which is why Toyota makes cars with their own competing iForce hybrid design (I’m a big fan of the generator + torque assist), hydrogen cars, electrics, plug in hybrids, diesels, propane and yes gas.
Specifically Hybrid System II is best if you can 1) only have one car 2) don’t have a place to charge it 3) do lots of starts and stops driving around town.
For anyone who is concerned that this only applies to Toyota drivetrains (which was true for quite some time), Toyota made nearly all of their HEV patents (24,000 of them) completely royalty-free in 2019 [0].
At this point, I assume the only thing stopping manufacturers is their pre-existing investment in other technology.
I have all three ICE, EV and hybrid at home. I was hesitant at first when getting the EV because we already had the hybrid, but we needed a second SUV to carry kids. After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense. It has some of the gas savings of an EV but you still deal with the inconvenience of maintaining a ICE. My EV has received zero maintenance other than cleaning the cameras. Brakes are still good for many more years and tires maybe need replacing in a year. No oil change, no brake pads, no spark plugs, fuel pumps, seals, plus all the time savings scheduling appointments and driving to the dealer. I do see some use cases where hybrids may actually work better, like very long daily commutes in a region lacking charging stations. I believe they are popular because there’s still fear of going full electric, but as many EV owners would tell you that fear is unreasonable and disappears after a few months owning an EV. I go out and run errands with 10% charge. The first days my hands started sweating when the charge dropped under 40%.
> After two years with the EV it became evident to me the hybrid doesn’t make sense
In some places in the US the hybrid can have lower energy costs per mile. Using the average price/kWh of residential electricity and the average price/gallon of gasoline in each US state as of maybe a year ago (I haven't updated my spreadsheet in a while) a Toyota Prius would beat my EV (which the sticker says is 129 MPGe city, 103 MPGe highway) on the highway in 15 states: Alaska, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Texas, and Vermont.
The Prius would win in city driving in 8 states: Connecticut, Hawaii, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, Rhode Island, and Vermont.
For people who do not have home charging or cheap destination charging and have to rely on public DC charging stations the Prius wins in most states even with today's super high gas prices. If DC charging costs $0.40/kWh for example, the Prius wins on the highway if gas is under $7.33/gal and in the city if it is under $5.85/gal.
If anyone wants to check it for their particular electrify and gas prices, compute the ratio of gas $/gal to electricity $/kWh. E.g., if gas is $4/gal and electricity at your home is $0.20/kWh the ratio is 20.
The Prius beats an EV with the MPGe of mine on the highway if the ratio is under 18.325, and in the city if the ratio is under 14.625. To adjust for your EV multiply those thresholds by my MPGe divided by your MPGe. To adjust for non-Prius hybrids or ICEs, multiply the threshold by the other car's mpg and divide by the Prius mpg (56 highway, 56 city).
> ... a Toyota Prius would beat my EV (which the sticker says is 129 MPGe city, 103 MPGe highway) on the highway in 15 states
I posted a not dissimilar comment in reply to someone else: I ran the numbers and in a country with high electricity the savings of an EV simply aren't that stellar compared to an ICE car. It's not clear at all if at the end the TCO is lower or not: basically the savings on gasoline / oil / brake pads may not be sufficient to offset the higher price and faster depreciation of the EV.
You can customize the costs for various thing and it has state level presests. You can also set PHEV utilisation factor etc.
I'm not sure how up to date it is, I see 2025 model cars listed but you can tweak gas cost, tax credits etc. if they have changed.
The very cheapest cars seem to still be ICE, not hybrid or EV but different state incentives/fuel costs varies it dramatically.
And you have to consider some other things like is the Nissan Versa ICE a comparable car to the Nissan Leaf EV? The former seems cheaper to run in the USA.
> For people who do not have home charging or cheap destination charging and have to rely on public DC charging stations the Prius wins in most states
I'm guessing you are assuming that either (a) your time is worth. $0/hour so that waiting time for charging costs you nothing or (b) you have a situation where you can charge while doing some other needful activity.
Filling with petrol is relatively quick and gas stations are everywhere. But still wastes some time.
Plug-in hybrids also have their interesting use cases. If you do live in an area with cheap electricity, that 20-60 miles of electric-only driving can produce savings.
You also get regenerative braking with hybrids.
Until charging times get better at most chargers, many people will prefer the convenience of gas fillups.
> No oil change, no brake pads, no spark plugs, fuel pumps, seals, plus all the time savings scheduling appointments and driving to the dealer.
ICE here, goes to the dealership, what, once a year? 13 years in and 135 000 km done with the car (which I bought used, when it was 4 years old).
I ran the numbers yesterday: savings on gas when moving to full EV really aren't that stellar in my case (about 10 000 km/years now: I drive a bit less than I used to) and I have a gas guzzler. Electricity in my country is one of the highest in Europe.
Instead of paying, say, 2000 EUR / year in gasoline I'd pay 1 000 EUR in electricity (much more if using the pricier supercharger).
So I save 1 K EUR / year on gas. OK, but car depreciation? EV vehicles prices apparently do fall like a very hard rock.
Not only that: apparently EV prices do fall even faster than ICE and morever brand new EVs tend to be, compared to a similar brand new ICE car, more pricey. So the fall is even harder.
So as for now I'll keep the yearly dealership trip to deal with those "pesky" oil changes, spark plugs, brake pads, etc.
I mean: it's not as if since my parents (the boomers) and my grand-parents we didn't have ICE cars ownership pretty much figured out. And some of the modern ICE engines are proven to be extremely reliable (so if you DYOR you can buy a used ICE car and be pretty reasonably sure it'll be a good workhorse).
The "you'll save money" argument seems dubious. Your "no oil change" argument seems a bit light too.
I understand the "you'll save the planet" a bit more but I'm a "show me the money (savings)" person.
> I do see some use cases where hybrids may actually work better, like very long daily commutes in a region lacking charging stations.
That's exactly it, and why hybrids are very common in China outside the urban areas. Here in Japan there are still a lot of hybrids, and I and my spouse drove one (a rental) for a few days, in an area just like that - no charging stations, and, as we were basically tourists, no home charging options either. It was like any other car most of the time, except for the display showing how the battery got recharged whenever braking.
The interesting part came when we were finished with the trip and, as one has to, filled up the tank to 100% on the rental.. and it was almost nothing. Just had to top it up a little bit, that was all.
“Just get an EV” is the “let them eat cake” in disguise.
If I had a house and could charge EV at home, and had 1-2 kids, I might consider Tesla.
Public charging has iterated roughly to what gasoline costs (because that’s what people are willing to pay), and once you need 5 full seats, there is just a handful of options, and they (eg. Kia EV9) easily costs 3x more than lightly used MPV of a same size.
What I didn't get from the video is that there's a differential, but it is not connected to the wheels. Is there a second differential that connects MG1 to the wheels?
One of my absolute favorite thing about my Prius is how solid-state everything is. It really feels like the Toyota engineers went out of their way to throw the people working on their cars a bone.
The hybrid battery is super-easy to reach, and since Toyota stuck with NiMH for so long, it's extremely reliable across temperatures, and the cells are dirt cheap.
I have to help family members with car repairs every so often, and the Prius not having a power steering pump, an alternator, a starter motor, or even a normal transmission, means that it's actually feasible to stay on top of repairs as a non-mechanic.
In my brother's Ford fusion, it's a totally different experience, where it feels like Ford cut every single corner they could. I understand that their sedan line was dying, and I could really see why.
I understood after I watched the brilliant Weber Auto video on it, published 5 years ago[0]. I liked it so much I "gently" encouraged my partner to get a Yaris hybrid, which gets about 69mpg average. It's not unusual to see 80+ on individual trips. She was a little sceptical about having an auto at first, because us Europeans still think it's 1980 and that manuals are superior, but she came around after a few minutes of driving.
To be fair, though, classic "slushbox" autos actually were/are garbage, as are chain actuated CVTs. The hybrid system gets you immediate acceleration like an electric, none of this awful lag you get with a slushbox.
It's hilarious to me that 34mpg is considered remarkably good, though. I know it's a "minivan" but my Golf GTI gets 42mpg and is actually fun and arguably cool. I can also fit 5 people, furniture, and 2.4m lengths of timber in it comfortably.
> It's hilarious to me that 34mpg is considered remarkably good, though
I was curious too, I have a manual, petrol engine, Citroën C4 Picasso (called a minivan in English I think? but then I didn't think a Golf GTI was called a minivan so I'm not sure) from 2011 that's not hybrid at all and that's about what I get (7 L/100 km). It's comfortable to be in but not interesting to drive at all though.
I get a very consistent 4,3 L/100 km (54 mpg) on my diesel C4 (basically the same size as a Golf GTI) from 2013 and I like driving this one.
edit now that I've read the sibling comment, Google uses US gallons for its conversions and that's what I've used here.
I recently got a BYD Sealion 5 PHEV and still driving in the engine so haven't been plugging it in yet.
After 430km my fuel usage is exactly as per the start of this video at 6.9L/100km.
Being in South Africa, the affordability of this vehicle compared to an EV makes this the most sensible purchase for me at this point of time. Also, it seems that BYD's price might be especially good right now due it trying to gain market share.
My whole draw to hybrids is low overall cost and longevity. Just two days ago I bought my son a 2007 Prius with 194k miles for $6k; and three weeks ago, a 2008 with 225k miles for my sister for $2.5k. Both should last another 200k if they don’t abuse them.
And if gas goes over $6 I’m buying one for myself, too. I sleep in my car twice a week for work, and being able to run the AC on hot Florida nights will be the cherry on top.
The 2007 is like new except it’s the original battery, so son and I will swap the modules inside the battery pack in a few weeks for some refurbished modules with a warranty. Aside from the battery, the ABS pump is fragile but it is a DIY replacement if you have the time and patience.
Other than that, they just go and go and go, saving money mile after mile.
56 comments
[ 6.1 ms ] story [ 77.2 ms ] threadBut. The other points made felt muddled or even contradictory. I either didn't follow the TC guy's explanation closely enough, or the script could have used another pass.
computer could use Otto cycle in case more power is needed in rare situations
I've seen some modern hybrids just have a visualizer for this on the dash to encourage you to coast more and things, which seems about as helpful in understanding it too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake-specific_fuel_consumptio...
This is possible (and done) in any automatic, but in hybrids it was taken to the extreme, with electric motors covering for situations when either the RPM or torque are not where desired.
In fact, my experience is that during highway driving it's actually slightly off the optimal point, charging the battery in the process. I speculate that it's so that the surplus power can be released immediately by just making the electric motor stop acting as a generator and go into, well, motor mode.
It does get crazy mileage and drives well so I can't complain. They are more expensive than standard cars though and you can't leave it in neutral which is a problem in some car washes.
You can put the Toyotas in neutral, but you need to lift a special hatch and manually unlock the shifter. You need to do that if you're being towed. It's all in the manual, of course. I saw the hatch immediately. It's crazy to me that other geeks haven't checked every knob and hatch in their car or at least skimmed the manual.
I can put it in neutral, but the battery depletes and eventually an alarm sounds. I had AC on as I live in an extremely hot climate so I suppose it is a bigger problem here.
I always found most explanations of Toyota's Power Split Device too abstract, until I found this page where you can play with the sliders to see how the power is actually split between the ICE and the MG1/MG2 electric generators: https://eahart.com/prius/psd/
However, it's a 2L engine and the whole thing puts down 200hp, netting acceleration that beats a Civic SI and ~50 miles per gallon.
They first trialed it in Japan and Europe as the Civic EHEV a few years ago, and as of 2025 it has replaced the Sport and Sport Touring trims' former turbocharged 1.5L power train.
More like an engine connected to a single very long gear (like top gear), to avoid converting from physical motion to electricity and back to physical motion, at motorway speeds. And also a clutch, to disconnect that system completely, in which case the combustion engine can drive a generator, and send electricity to another motor driving the wheels. Plus there’s a battery involved, and the motors can assist or regen when the physical drivetrain is connected.
It’s all very cool, and I expect even more efficient than the Toyota system on the open road, but a little less during city driving. I can go into why I think that, but I’m not even sure I’m right :)
https://global.honda/en/tech/two_motor_hybrid_system_honda_e...
Edit: I just wanted to add, that Civic with this drivetrain always seemed like a good choice.
I’ve tried to test-drive a Honda with this setup twice. Once the dealer misunderstood me and I drove some boring mild-hybrid CVT Insight or something. I would have even been happy trying out the dual-clutch hybrid they were using in some models then. I’d already driven their mild hybrid a few times. It got good mileage, but not as good as Toyota’s system, and didn’t have anything else going for it. The second time I hadn’t realised that they didn’t even bring this Civic into the country. We drove the regular CVT anyway, but it was a huge disappointment, knowing other countries had the e:HEV.
2nd edit: I incorrectly called the combustion engine “the motor”, which is something I do all the time, but need to avoid when talking about hybrids
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLUIExAnNcE
[1] https://cna.asia/3PS4lrN
Actually, another thing was that the visibility out of the Sienna seemed quite bad.
Time codes 3:06, 37:07, 43:57, 43:36 (note on the eCVT naming), and 44:17.
https://eahart.com/prius/psd/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxmxIsoV_Xo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppyK3ZlUbtM
At least that was my experience with the toaster, microwave, and dishwasher detergent episodes.
While Hybrid System II is very clever and non-intuitive coming from an ICE or EV frame of reference there are reasons even Toyota hasn’t placed all their chips on this bet. In fact as Japan’s largest manufacturer they want to have a bet on every point of Pareto frontier which is why Toyota makes cars with their own competing iForce hybrid design (I’m a big fan of the generator + torque assist), hydrogen cars, electrics, plug in hybrids, diesels, propane and yes gas.
Specifically Hybrid System II is best if you can 1) only have one car 2) don’t have a place to charge it 3) do lots of starts and stops driving around town.
At this point, I assume the only thing stopping manufacturers is their pre-existing investment in other technology.
[0] https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/corporate/27512455.html
2. Are you aware that many people cannot charge at home?
In some places in the US the hybrid can have lower energy costs per mile. Using the average price/kWh of residential electricity and the average price/gallon of gasoline in each US state as of maybe a year ago (I haven't updated my spreadsheet in a while) a Toyota Prius would beat my EV (which the sticker says is 129 MPGe city, 103 MPGe highway) on the highway in 15 states: Alaska, California, Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, Texas, and Vermont.
The Prius would win in city driving in 8 states: Connecticut, Hawaii, Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New York, Rhode Island, and Vermont.
For people who do not have home charging or cheap destination charging and have to rely on public DC charging stations the Prius wins in most states even with today's super high gas prices. If DC charging costs $0.40/kWh for example, the Prius wins on the highway if gas is under $7.33/gal and in the city if it is under $5.85/gal.
If anyone wants to check it for their particular electrify and gas prices, compute the ratio of gas $/gal to electricity $/kWh. E.g., if gas is $4/gal and electricity at your home is $0.20/kWh the ratio is 20.
The Prius beats an EV with the MPGe of mine on the highway if the ratio is under 18.325, and in the city if the ratio is under 14.625. To adjust for your EV multiply those thresholds by my MPGe divided by your MPGe. To adjust for non-Prius hybrids or ICEs, multiply the threshold by the other car's mpg and divide by the Prius mpg (56 highway, 56 city).
I posted a not dissimilar comment in reply to someone else: I ran the numbers and in a country with high electricity the savings of an EV simply aren't that stellar compared to an ICE car. It's not clear at all if at the end the TCO is lower or not: basically the savings on gasoline / oil / brake pads may not be sufficient to offset the higher price and faster depreciation of the EV.
http://www.carboncounter.com
You can customize the costs for various thing and it has state level presests. You can also set PHEV utilisation factor etc.
I'm not sure how up to date it is, I see 2025 model cars listed but you can tweak gas cost, tax credits etc. if they have changed.
The very cheapest cars seem to still be ICE, not hybrid or EV but different state incentives/fuel costs varies it dramatically.
And you have to consider some other things like is the Nissan Versa ICE a comparable car to the Nissan Leaf EV? The former seems cheaper to run in the USA.
I'm guessing you are assuming that either (a) your time is worth. $0/hour so that waiting time for charging costs you nothing or (b) you have a situation where you can charge while doing some other needful activity.
Filling with petrol is relatively quick and gas stations are everywhere. But still wastes some time.
You also get regenerative braking with hybrids.
Until charging times get better at most chargers, many people will prefer the convenience of gas fillups.
I live in the boonies and routinely do multiple hundred mile trips, in bad winter weather.
Also, the hybrid shown, Toyota's Sienna, maddeningly doesn't come with a plugin. WHY.
ICE here, goes to the dealership, what, once a year? 13 years in and 135 000 km done with the car (which I bought used, when it was 4 years old).
I ran the numbers yesterday: savings on gas when moving to full EV really aren't that stellar in my case (about 10 000 km/years now: I drive a bit less than I used to) and I have a gas guzzler. Electricity in my country is one of the highest in Europe.
Instead of paying, say, 2000 EUR / year in gasoline I'd pay 1 000 EUR in electricity (much more if using the pricier supercharger).
So I save 1 K EUR / year on gas. OK, but car depreciation? EV vehicles prices apparently do fall like a very hard rock.
Not only that: apparently EV prices do fall even faster than ICE and morever brand new EVs tend to be, compared to a similar brand new ICE car, more pricey. So the fall is even harder.
So as for now I'll keep the yearly dealership trip to deal with those "pesky" oil changes, spark plugs, brake pads, etc.
I mean: it's not as if since my parents (the boomers) and my grand-parents we didn't have ICE cars ownership pretty much figured out. And some of the modern ICE engines are proven to be extremely reliable (so if you DYOR you can buy a used ICE car and be pretty reasonably sure it'll be a good workhorse).
The "you'll save money" argument seems dubious. Your "no oil change" argument seems a bit light too.
I understand the "you'll save the planet" a bit more but I'm a "show me the money (savings)" person.
That's exactly it, and why hybrids are very common in China outside the urban areas. Here in Japan there are still a lot of hybrids, and I and my spouse drove one (a rental) for a few days, in an area just like that - no charging stations, and, as we were basically tourists, no home charging options either. It was like any other car most of the time, except for the display showing how the battery got recharged whenever braking.
The interesting part came when we were finished with the trip and, as one has to, filled up the tank to 100% on the rental.. and it was almost nothing. Just had to top it up a little bit, that was all.
If I had a house and could charge EV at home, and had 1-2 kids, I might consider Tesla. Public charging has iterated roughly to what gasoline costs (because that’s what people are willing to pay), and once you need 5 full seats, there is just a handful of options, and they (eg. Kia EV9) easily costs 3x more than lightly used MPV of a same size.
One can dream I guess.
The hybrid battery is super-easy to reach, and since Toyota stuck with NiMH for so long, it's extremely reliable across temperatures, and the cells are dirt cheap.
I have to help family members with car repairs every so often, and the Prius not having a power steering pump, an alternator, a starter motor, or even a normal transmission, means that it's actually feasible to stay on top of repairs as a non-mechanic.
In my brother's Ford fusion, it's a totally different experience, where it feels like Ford cut every single corner they could. I understand that their sedan line was dying, and I could really see why.
To be fair, though, classic "slushbox" autos actually were/are garbage, as are chain actuated CVTs. The hybrid system gets you immediate acceleration like an electric, none of this awful lag you get with a slushbox.
It's hilarious to me that 34mpg is considered remarkably good, though. I know it's a "minivan" but my Golf GTI gets 42mpg and is actually fun and arguably cool. I can also fit 5 people, furniture, and 2.4m lengths of timber in it comfortably.
[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O61WihMRdjM
I was curious too, I have a manual, petrol engine, Citroën C4 Picasso (called a minivan in English I think? but then I didn't think a Golf GTI was called a minivan so I'm not sure) from 2011 that's not hybrid at all and that's about what I get (7 L/100 km). It's comfortable to be in but not interesting to drive at all though.
I get a very consistent 4,3 L/100 km (54 mpg) on my diesel C4 (basically the same size as a Golf GTI) from 2013 and I like driving this one.
edit now that I've read the sibling comment, Google uses US gallons for its conversions and that's what I've used here.
After 430km my fuel usage is exactly as per the start of this video at 6.9L/100km.
Being in South Africa, the affordability of this vehicle compared to an EV makes this the most sensible purchase for me at this point of time. Also, it seems that BYD's price might be especially good right now due it trying to gain market share.
And if gas goes over $6 I’m buying one for myself, too. I sleep in my car twice a week for work, and being able to run the AC on hot Florida nights will be the cherry on top.
The 2007 is like new except it’s the original battery, so son and I will swap the modules inside the battery pack in a few weeks for some refurbished modules with a warranty. Aside from the battery, the ABS pump is fragile but it is a DIY replacement if you have the time and patience.
Other than that, they just go and go and go, saving money mile after mile.