Ask HN: Know of a hacker in Cambridge or Boston who wants a bookstore?

112 points by mankins ↗ HN
I started Lorem Ipsum Books 9 years ago with the belief that bookstores were an important part of our community--and that they needed to innovate in order to survive.

Freshly out of graduate school at MIT the bookstore was started with the notion that integrating Internet-sales into a traditional brick-and-mortar bookstore was the way forward for small retailers. Rather than run from technology, we were going to embrace it to provide a new sales channel. With a group of friends I built this new way forward, creating Lorem Ipsum Books in Inman Square, Cambridge.

Lorem Ipsum benefited from a custom-coded inventory system that automatically listed our inventory for sale at other online partners like Amazon.com. It was fun to use, efficient, and worked. For awhile there, it looked like this dual-listing was the answer to bookstore's problems. Then supply-ballooned, demand remained the same, and prices dropped.

We tried many things, but were unable to get the store from red to black.

They just deleted our Wikipedia page, citing progress as being 'unremarkable'. Clearly something has to be done...

It's time to innovate again.

The bookstore needs fresh ideas, a radical change in thinking, and a reimagining of the role of the bookstore in the future. I don't want to shut the store down, but may be forced to. Instead, I'm looking to pass the store to other keepers--other innovators--hands.

I write to Hacker News to ask if anyone knows anyone in the Cambridge or Boston area that would be interested in this project?

106 comments

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Hmmm, I don't have any immediate ideas, but will spread the word to others in the community who may be interested.
Someone else IS innovating. They're printing out of print books for a tidy fee. What's remarkable is that so many books are unavailable once they've run. That is publishers are incentived to destroy rather than keep books which don't immediately sell due to tax laws.

Research that and look around at other book stores. You'll find the one doing it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/philjohnson/2012/05/10/the-man-w...

The machine is so expensive. The lease on it is more than our rent. It works for that store because of its location.
Is it possible that because it's so expensive, you could make it yourself for a much better return on investment?

Is it so expensive that you could burn out three cheap laser printers a month for a fraction of the cost? What if it was one moderately expensive printer every two months?

What if you had a Raspberry Pi managing your print queue across multiple networked printers and you bind them with a surplus GBC machine? You could keep a supply of "nice" pre-printed covers available to wrap around books when they're ready.

One nice thing about this is that you could start small, and scale fairly easily. Use human labour (that's already running the shop) to fill in the gaps in automation.

It might be worth looking at Don Lancaster's web site (tinaja.com) for some thoughts on how to do this stuff before any pre-packaged solutions existed (look for "print-on-demand" resources).

I like bookstores a lot. I hope you'll be able to find a way to make it work for you!

Thanks for the ideas. Last I looked into this (a few years ago now) it was the binding part that I didn't know how to do.

I'd love to find someone who wants to get involved and do just what you describe.

Pick up a publishing magazine, they have companies that advertize perfect bindign equipment for a few thousand dollars that only costs a few dollars per unit to use.
A hacker-publisher friend does "print-on-demand" the simple way; a high-end laser printer plus a high-end perfect binder and cutter. I think they kept their equipment costs down below $10K. The standalone machines don't do much besides print and bind and I believe cost much more.

This is a solution for a low print run rather one-of-kind printing but it works for him.

In the realm of thesis printing, you pay 10 to 22 cents per monochrome side, plus about $30 for perfect binding (plus shipping, and any surcharges for fast turnaround). So printing Strousup's 900 page "The C++ Programming Language" costs $130+ and printing something slimmer like "The Art of Computer Programming, Volume 4 Fascile 4" costs $40+. New from Amazon those would cost $55 and $15 respectively.

If you can get your prices competitive, there might be an opportunity for you in thesis printing.

If you could get your prices so low that a professor with a ready-to-go textbook in PDF form could get it printed on demand cheaper than going through regular publishers and college bookstores, that would be a big opportunity right there. By all accounts college textbooks in America are very expensive, but neither authors nor publishers admit to making much profit, so presumably there's a lot of inefficiency there. Could be ripe for disruption.

I may or may not have some insider info on this service, and I can tell you that they are still losing money on the machine. It's cool and it makes them seem different, but the demand isn't big enough to make them actual money.
This doesn't help pay the bills, but I lived right down the street from you a couple years back and loved your bookstore.

Have you looked into textbooks? There's a lot of money in the textbook market right now (for a variety of reasons). Won't help your storefront business, but could help on the internet side. I work in the industry; feel free to email if you want to chat more about the textbook side of the industry :)

Thanks we did textbooks awhile back when we had a warehouse, but dropped them. The industry seemed to be changing too rapidly to understand. Tx for the help offer, all appreciated.
Have you considered running it as a co-op? I think odds are low one person (or entity) would want to buy it outright, but you might be able to get 100 people to buy a stake of it. Just a thought!

Similarly, maybe it could have a future as a not-for-profit entity?

I'd be open to either. A big problem is that I live in NYC now, and haven't been able to be involved in the day-to-day events like I once was. I'm looking for someone--or a group--to step into that place.
Have you considered branching out into related areas, like games? I'm talking European-style and other board games and similar... things where physical location still matters.
That's interesting. We've thought of many things, but not that. I'll pass it along.
A concept that works very well in college areas that I've seen is called "Snakes and Lattes". Basically a coffeeshop that has plenty of seating for playing board games. I've seen it work with bubbletea places as well. Seems to drive a lot of traffic by word of mouth due to its cooperative nature.
That sounds cool. Apparently "Snakes and Lattes" is a cafe in Toronto with this theme, whereas I was thinking of it as being a weekly event.

edit: Overall, I think selling coffee would definitely be a good idea, though this would require someone with that type of experience in order to deliver a valuable product.

One issue with this is that selling board games suffers some of the same issues as selling books. It is very easy for someone to buy one online for very cheap. Plus there isn't as much of a secondhand market.

In addition in the area there are a few stores that sell board games that are already established. Off the top of my head I can think of two in Cambridge. Pandemonium Books and Games and Games People Play.

I second this recommendation. I hardly ever go into a used book store, except when I know they also sell boardgames and I want to try out a boardgame before purchase. Plus, it's a lot of fun.
Surely there are lots of ways your book store could continue to innovate. You may need to move beyond being just a book store to something more social & digital but maybe that's what it will take. People are using book shops in a different kind of way now. It used to be that the local book store was quicker, while with online sales you had to wait a few days but it was cheaper. Now you can have any book in front of you, including a free sample chapter 24/7.

I still love to support my local independent book shop but I'm reading more than ever now but the last 5 books I read weren't even in printed format. It's time to compete in a different way.

When it comes to physical stores, the general rule is "location location location", and just based on having lived near Cambridge for a decade and spent most of my time there Inman Sq just feels like a suboptimal location for a bookstore.

This is assuming of course that a problem is getting more traffic. I don't know if that's an issue, or if the problem is the "conversion rate". It would be interesting to find out what's working and what isn't, but don't know if you're inclined to share further. Myself I'm not in a position to take over, but I sure can provide free advice :>

I've always dreamed of hybrid book store/coffee shops. Perhaps ones that sell subscription access, becoming for-pay lending libraries with a book inventory that adjusts to patron demands. That way you have recurring revenue off each customer, and you can hope people sign up for it like they do for gym memberships and then don't show :)

I like that idea of the lending library. I wonder if it would work... I guess there's only one way to find out: try.
>> I guess there's only one way to find out: try.

I like the lending library / coffee shop notion as well, and if you don't have a lot of runway to try this, you might be able to put out a signup sheet asking people to pre-commit to a multi-month membership up front - if there's not enough interest there to keep you afloat (or get you close), try something else. Should serve to at least get baseline validation on the concept before you sink any real time / money / effort into it.

Consider using www.shelflet.com to lend or rent out your inventory to your customers...its a book rental marketplace.
I have a coffee shop / book store hybrid near me, I think it's brilliant. I don't always buy books there, but when I do I've usually purchased a latte as well and spend part of the day reading it there.

One of the keys is having a lot of comfortable chairs (like B&N used to). I used to go to B&N all the time, read half a book and purchase it.

Places for book geeks like me are shrinking quickly.

I'm in NYC now too, but I'd like to email you when I get home. Can I find your address somewhere?
I emailed you.
Hey... Big fan of LI and a fellow bookseller from the brattle bookshop here. I'd really love to alk with you and try and help Lorem Ipsum stay above ground. A friend sent me the link to this board, and so since ill prob forget about it after I post this please fell free to shoot me an email. I'd love to talk with you, I think its difficult to wage guesses as to how to improve the business without knowing more details about LIs buying policy, storage and more... But coming from a shop that is still highly successful thanks to a very specific and tailor made business plan, I've learned a lot about what makes a second hand bookshop work. Email is animalfoursquare@gmail.com sorry if its poor etiquette to post that.

Ellen

Ellen! Thanks, will contact now.
I love Lorem Ipsum and remember when you guys moved a few years ago. (I used to live literally across the street.) I enjoyed buying used books at your store and that you would sometimes haggle over the price. But I doubt I have spent more than $80 there.

I don't know anything about the bookstore business except that it is tough. I was sad when Quantum Books closed, and their books were a lot more expensive than yours, and they were right next to MIT and sold a lot of textbooks to students.

Do you know the proprietors of Brookline Booksmith or Harvard Bookstore? I assume they are still making it, and maybe there are some ideas or principles here that would help that you guys could learn. They have a lot of readings and signings and events that I imagine help get people in the stores.

(I do sort-of-know Ken and Frenchie, the proprietors of the "banned in Boston" outdoor free book table that sometimes sets up in Harvard Square, but I'm guessing that introduction would not help you...)

Stores like Brookline Booksmith and Harvard Book Store are barely making it too, but they have the name recognition to keep them going. Mainly, they pay their employees well below living wage with the promise of more "once the store starts making money again."
If I want to buy a book, i'll go to Amazon and buy it. With kindle, i'll have it in 10 seconds. If its not available on Kindle with Prime i'll have it next day. You can't compete with Amazon. So its not worth trying.

If you want to run a remarkable book store today, don't sell books. That's a loosing battle. This is where i'd start if I was trying to think of ways to innovate in this space. I'm sure you're familiar with Porter square books. They for instance have built a pretty remarkable community around the store with book clubs etc.

Other then that, i'd like to say good luck! I live in Boston, so i'll try to visit the next time i'm in the neighborhood.

I get your point but I don't think you articulated it effectively.
Their goal should be a strong marketing push in a niche market, specifically focusing on the community, as there's plenty of room for players in the space. There are a lot of people who hate Amazon (not really sure why; hatred of the big guys, I suppose?) enough to allow for these competitors to thrive. I think Powell Books in Portland is a great example of such.
Or maybe only sell ebooks. Offer good coffee and advice on books, get a referral fee for ebooks?

Browsing on Amazon sucks. If you know what you want it is OK, but for discovery there is still room for improvement.

Strange that this is the only other comment mentioning referral fees.
If it helps, I upvoted your other comment :-) If I had a cafe, I'd love to try the referral thing. There has to be some solution for the future that makes it possible to go to a shop, pick a nice book and sit down with a coffee.
Have you perhaps considered a book scanner? You can then sell books and for an additional fee turn the book into a DRM free PDF the user can read electronically. You don't sell digital copies online just give the reader the book they bought in store. This way the reader can read the book physically or by a tablet.
I would pay for this service.

I have a bookcase full of textbooks of $60-$120 a piece that I'd love to have digitized for like 10-20 bucks per kindle-readable book.

Rebuying it on Amazon usually costs the same ridiculously high price or higher, and the books aren't always prepared nicely either.

I think this is actually a great business idea. Imagine you could just send in, or drop off books that you then receive in DRM free glorious PDF or other nice e-book formats.

Would it work legally?

edit: wtf there's a community built around book scanning http://www.diybookscanner.org/

The main advantage of an electronic copy is the ability to search and highlight/copy text. If they are just scanned images, you lose this ability.

Plus, Google Books is going to do a much better job than a local book store.

Modern scanners will produce a 'searchable PDF' comprised of two layers - OCRed text below, scanned image on top. So you get the search and copy ability of OCRed text, but not the loss of presentation and formatting that comes with using OCR alone. As with any OCR, you do get occasional mis-transcribed words.

Google Books doesn't let you download an entire DRM free book to your Kindle, does it?

There is a company that does this. They were very successful in Japan and opened an office in San Jose a few years ago - http://1dollarscan.com - be sure to read the FAQ. They can also do OCR on the book content which makes it searchable and possible to do copy/paste. As far as I can tell what they do is the normal graphical scan of a page, and then underlay that with text. When you select over the page it picks up the text, but when you read you see the graphical original.

Note that they destroy the books in the process of scanning them (spine is cut off) and then they dispose of the books to avoid copyright and similar issues.

Have you thought about adding coworking space? I would kill for a bookstore environment with coffee and decent chairs. As it is, I do most of my work in a Barnes and Noble, and my back hates me for it.
I like this idea. I'll pay for a space like that too.
Lorem Ipsum is fantastic, it would be so sad to lose you.

* Anything I can do to help the store? Other than buy things, which I've bought quite a bit form lorem Ipsum.

Thanks for the thoughts. Spread the word that we're looking for help? If you know of anyone that might be interested, please have them contact me: mattatloremipsumbooks.com
Hi. i am interested in speaking with you. My company has been looking for interesting projects in the physical space to take on... and we are currently amassing books for a library... Can you give me your email address or email me at Ben @ socialprintstudio.com Looking forward to speaking!

Ben

Many used books are not all that appealing on Amazon since they do not include free shipping. If you can get close to those prices but people only have to drop by the store rather than pay for inefficient shipping (it's usually not two day like most are used to with Prime) it could be compelling. The hardest thing of course is building awareness of your offering. I've never been to your store but have heard great things. Why have I never been? Well I live in Boston and I honestly cannot remember the last time I bought a book in a bookstore. I suppose I'm not your target customer and I think the challenge will be indetifying precisely who that is and considering if they are enough to run a sustainable business.

I think labors of love can be foolish but at the same time I have the utmost respect for them. Best of luck. I will be stopping in sometime soon.

Trying to think creatively here...

Could you try to capitalize on the fact that you're right in between two enormous populations of PhD students and professors who are eager to both give talks and learn more?

Maybe you could support micro-publishing of books, or collections of interesting papers, for local distribution around Kendall/Harvard. Kind of like academic blogging but on paper.

Or you could host themed nights where a few academics give talks about why Subject X is interesting, and then you tell the audience they can buy/order books on Subject X from you at the end (and please do, it's how you pay for the free talk).

Also, I live right near Inman. You guys have the "Refrigerator Repairs" sign (or something like it) above your store, right? Hard honesty, from someone whose walked by many times and never gone in: the Refrigerator sign made me think you were a) too lazy to put up a sign for your store, or b) trying to be ironically lazy, which I think isn't a positive vibe to send to society. Either way, I transferred these impressions onto my expectations about the product waiting inside for me, and passed by every time. Perhaps that is a silly reason not to enter a book store, but at least it is a data point for you to consider.

EDIT:

Another idea: what if you provided a nice binding service for graduating PhD students. Package up all your papers and thesis together into a nice volume to show the kids one day. I know you can do this online, but you would provide nice Harvard and MIT themed leather book jackets with some stock material about the school or department history, along with a thicker page for the student to put some photos in from that time period. I would pay $100 for this. Maybe $200 if it was really nice. There's no class ring for PhD students, but this would make a similarly nostalgic memento.

> There's no class ring for PhD students, but this would make a similarly nostalgic memento.

While I can't internet-verify it, one of my Spanish co-PhD students told me that in Spain you _are_ given a ring upon completion. It's supposedly to signify your marriage to science. I think my wife would have something to say about that...

> Or you could host themed nights where a few academics give talks about why Subject X is interesting, and then you tell the audience they can buy/order books on Subject X from you at the end (and please do, it's how you pay for the free talk).

Only issue is why they would come to a book store to do this rather than do this sort of thing at MIT or Stanford. Maybe, integrate a coffee/snacks/cosy reading room along with book store?

I think you should host the talks in the style of a traditional "salon." It would be a social gathering with food and drink that also happens to let people expand their horizons.
Just another data point: I've walked by on the other side of the street a few times and assumed you were closed/out of business because of the refrigerator repairs sign.
Have you sent an email to Philip Greenspun? He definitely has the connections in Cambridge to people who may be interested in this or could help. He's probably bought books from Lorem Ipsum in the past: http://philip.greenspun.com/
Hmm. Just thinking out loud here.

What seems to be working for Pandemonium, just down the street, is event and community space -- for them it's board and collectible card games. For Porter Square Books, it's some combination of having a coffee shop and events (readings etc).

Providing shared experiences in the physical world is something Amazon can't (yet) do.

(Adding a coffee shop might be enough -- based on the number popping up and thriving in Boston recently it seems that we have a nigh-infinite demand for them. 1369 could use some competition, right?)

I think that Trident Booksellers gives a very good idea how you can run and think a bookstore above a bookstore. Try that in a different way - some ideas here are a good start.
My god ... I love Lorem Ipsum. Every damn time I get into inman, I pay a visit there. Thank you for introducing me into zines and having an awesome CS/Math/Sci section. All your books are so damn well curated.

I wish could help more directly, but I'm steadily approaching broke and determined to be working full-time on my own project till my money runs out.

In any case, I'd love to buy you a coffee / tea / beer / whatever and just chat with you for an hour, your pick of time and place. Best case, you could refine some of my crazy ideas. Worst case, you'll have had an hour break. What's there to lose? E-mail is in my profile! :)

I highly recommend turning it into a co-work space. I'd be interested in working out of that space if you do. Look at 1369 cafe a few doors down you'd notice that people just don't go there just for coffee. People are always on their laptop trying to get some work done. I'd be willing to partner with you if you want to go that direction. Drop me a line.
Any chance you'd consider making book sales a smaller part of what your store does in favor of other sources of revenue? One of the few things brick-and-mortar shops can do that Amazon still can't is bring people together, to Be A Place. You can.

A few ideas to consider along those lines, either individually or as smaller pieces of a larger concept:

- Become a hacker/student-centric coffee shop that enables freelancers, et al, to work in a less frenetic environment than Starbucks

- (Not sure how big your space is, but) Build a small stage (or not) and host local singers and poets as well as professor and/or student talks

- Become a resource for finding hard-to-get books and charge a premium for it

- Host book sales, etc., for the local universities where students can buy/sell from each other, then give a small discount on books students are searching for but can't find at the sale

Not sure how intent you are on maintaining the store's identity as a Place That Sells Books, but you have a lot of options, I think, if you want to go in another direction altogether – or even partly.

I think there is always a need for more hacker/startup community spaces in Boston/Cambridge; especially ones that are not coworking spaces/offices.

There can always be more events too.

How about hosting an in-person brand/biz hack of the store?

Your comment reminds me of a segment of Urbanized, the documentary [1], in which a young woman, Candy Chang [2], creates a simple system for enabling citizens to voice their opinions on what should be done with vacant buildings in varying states of disrepair.

She created vinyl stickers that read "I Wish This Was", under which is a blank white space (resembling the My Name Is stickers common to networking events, etc.). She affixes a grid of the stickers to the building/scaffolding/whatever along with a Sharpie, and folks passing by write their suggestions on the stickers.

For me, what makes her idea so incredible is that the suggestions are made in context; they're not discussed at a town hall meeting miles away from the location, they're not submitted online in a fancy web app, and they're not handed down by local government among suggestions for hundreds of other plots.

It's great that OP is asking on HN, because I think (s)he'll get some great responses here, but the best place to ask might be in the space itself, in the company of the folks that make it more than Some Bookstore In Massachusetts Ripe For a Pivot.

Why not host an event to discuss the future of the store? Send invitations to professors and post flyers for students at local universities and see what happens. It can't hurt, right?

1. http://urbanizedfilm.com 2. http://candychang.com/i-wish-this-was/

I think you're in the right part of the Venn diagram. Selling physical books in a physical store as the business is probably disappearing.

Doing "something else" (exercise for the reader, sorry) that offers something book-related as one of many services is probably where the future of non-Amazon book business will be.

A work-space with services ...

I guess a good idea might be to ask at a local succsefull bookstore (NYC in your case): Just walk in and tell you have a bookstore in Boston and ask how it's gooing and what worked best for them?

Other idea is to ask at a book(store) forum.

Good luck!

Have you tried to advertise your inventory on Google AdWords?
I have been wondering about this. Online stores such as Amazon are killing the bookstores all over the world, obviously bookstores cant compete in price, however, one thing that I think will make bookstores stay, that is, if they stop selling books. Obviously, they cant compete in price, however, what if they start selling atmospheres?

Imagine having a membership to a place filled with books, and you can read all you want. Go inside the place, sit down, enjoy a cup of coffee, pick any book you like. You can even bring your laptop and work, it's like having a gym membership, but for your brain.

What do you guys think?

Is that more like a library + cafe?