I know many of you are keyboard aficionados and I wanted to let you know that the Model F keyboard guy is making a 2nd generation of his Beam Spring keyboards. I got one and it is unlike any other keyboard I have ever used: the tactile feedback is precise like a buckle spring but louder and with a more pronounced break. Travel feels longer and obviously the keyboard sits very high compared to modern board. But it's a heck of a typing experience if you are interested.
I've you've never heard of beam spring keyboards, this was the IBM keyboard before buckle-springs (same guy, Richard Harris) took over. It uses a very different mechanism than buckle-spring:
Very cool that someone is working to bring back these older key switches!
From the page:
> What is a Beam Spring Keyboard? Before the Model F keyboard was the Beam Spring keyboard, a keyboard that was designed to be like the IBM Selectric electric typewriters but made to work with IBM’s mainframe terminals. Originals regularly sell for over $1,000 to $2,000 but now you can get one in various “normal” modern layouts and various color options for a fraction of that cost. The new beam spring keyboards are also compatible with MX keycaps (see below for details).
Are mechanical keyboards becoming a way to show off like the programmer equivalent of loud truck exhaust?
The sound is satisfying yes, but with other people in mind I am looking for the quietest mechanical keyboard I can find these days. I have become self conscious about typing quietly during phone calls or meetings in case I am unmuted.
It's nice to see human-centered computing making a comeback with the older, robust, and hefty tactile interfaces - and I hope to see more like this as token factories eat wallets and jobs.
These are definitely not robust. The product description mentions about 5 times that it will most likely be broken when it arrives to you, and will definitely break again in months or years so recommends buying extra first aid kits with spare parts so you can tinker it and keep it working.
The thing is, something like this is way outside of the budget of someone who isn't making a lot of money or has saved a lot in the first place. 438 dollars is a lot of money.
Funny to hear that about a $400+ (!) mass-produced keyboard mostly targeting people that already have at least a dozen mechanical keyboards. Making money on pointless overconsumption that borders on obsession is kind of the opposite of being human-centered.
I have his model-f, and while i like it setting it up to flash firmware to it was a bitch and a half and his docs read like a 4th grader wrote it. He should invest some money in cleaning up that side of his business.
The manual was redone recently - folks tell me now that they were new to these keyboards but were able to easily follow along the manual to set up their keyboard.
In the meantime, I would remind the people who would like to experience a vintage keyboard to take a look at the Unicomp model M keyboards. They are not Model Fs or beam spring, but are rock solid, reliable, and sensibly priced considering their quality.
My Endura Pro started having issues three months in after arriving to me in 2013; I remember how it was $99 and shipping was $98, and then I had to pay VAT on it.
It died quite quickly after and become parts donor for old IBM Model Ms I bought out from people’s attics. It was a wonderfully repair-unfriendly thing, too.
Has their finishing improved at all? A coworker bought one, maybe 15 years ago. He has to spend time with a file to remove all the remnants of the molding process. I'd expect a nearly $200 keyboard to feel finished and not have sharp pieces poking out all over the place.
I've long thought about getting a Unicomp, but seeing how poorly finished they were always gave me pause and made me question what other shortcuts they took.
I've been twice the past year to buy their keyboards in-person in Lexington Kentucky US. They treated me very well. I can say this much, the full-size keyboard has a slightly nicer feel to it than the 10-key-less version, the key travel that is.
I agree with your sentiment (Unicomp is a much more reliable company than other commenters seem to suggest Model F Labs to be...). That said, the Unicomp New Model M does not have N-key rollover, so I had to return mine back when. Unfortunate, because I really do like the buckling spring feel! (typed from Realforce R3S)
Mine is now at customs. Wondering how fucked it’s going to arrive. But I guess I like pain.
The 104-key model F I’ve got has a dead spring in numpad delete, and I can’t carve out enough time to disassemble and fix it. Mind you, I did disassemble, put in DIY foam, and reassemble a Model F XT, so I’m not afraid to do it.
Between me ordering the beam spring one and getting it, I managed to change my citizenship, name, and house. But it was only a two year wait, the first Model F remake (60%) took three years and I was quite late to that party.
> This keyboard is not for you if you do not want to spend an hour or more to set it up and time in the future to adjust a key that stops working well. Do not use any beam spring keyboard in a mission-critical environment.
Note that Ellipse/modelfkeyboards is notorious in the keyboard community for poor quality control and support. The keyboards often come misaligned or damaged in shipping, and it's up to you to fix them. I'm not sure about their beam spring keyboards, but their Model F keyboards come without keycaps installed, meaning that the keys haven't even been tested to actuate properly before the keyboard is shipped. If you have the money and free time, you can usually turn what you receive into a working product with enough tweaking. You just have to keep in mind that you'll be paying over $400 for a keyboard that may arrive broken, and if it does you will have as close to no warranty as what's legally possible. If you dig around on forums and in comments you can find a bunch of examples of this, but here's a decent summary: https://consumerrights.wiki/w/Model_F_Labs
Awesome! I'm happy I have a future option in case my 3727 ever wears out (which I somehow can't see ever happening...).
I'm not associated with this project in any way, but I'm excited to see the Beamspring (and Model F capsense stuff) is still ticking along. I keep meaning to redesign my controller for the 2020s but the original crappy design keeps working perfectly for my needs and I can't justify the time to update it. I'd love to do something dumb like throw an FPGA at the problem or try and use the RP2350 PIO. I don't think we ever matched what IBM's original ASIC achieved.
I had a model F, I loved it. Then the H key stopped working. I knew from previous experience that trying to fix them never went well, so it went to the shelf and eventually to the garbage.
They were only about $100 on ebay at the time though.
Some people have mentioned quality control issues with this keyboard vendor, particularly with the Model F. I have the Model F and it is a bit finicky admittedly. I support the vendor based on their hard work to bring back these classic keyboard mechanisms, but if you want one that "just works" the Model M from Unisys is probably a better bet.
As far as the beam spring goes, this is the second revision of these switches. These switches are a complete modern re-imagination of the original beam spring switches and support Cherry-style key caps. Unlike the Model F, the switches are self-contained and setup just involved putting key-caps on. The keyboard worked flawlessly and immediately.
This is an enthusiast trying to bring back classic keyboard switches that have been out of production for decades, so I am willing to grant him some slack in general, but I'm extremely happy with my board. It's a very different typing experience, but I love it. I understand many people aren't willing to risk $400 on a keyboard, but I also want to let people know about my great experience with it.
Hello, project coordinator here. If you haven’t been following the project recently, I am happy to report that more than 7,000 Brand New Model F and Beam Spring keyboards have shipped since 2019, and the very first Round 2 classic style Beam Spring B104 keyboards started shipping this month, as noted here. If you want to see current comments about the project, please do check out the recent user feedback on the current production boards on the Deskthority forum - Beam Spring project thread linked to on the project web site - About page.
You are seeing discussion of issues in these HN comments and in the project thread in recent years due to me preparing and shipping a few thousand keyboards over that time, not because a high percentage of boards are permanently nonrepairable. If you can follow what’s in the manual, you are guaranteed to have a working keyboard, period. It’s nice to receive a note that all is well, but most folks only email/post if there is an issue. If several dozen out of 7,000+ folks are posting with issues that does not indicate mass quality control improvements needed. Almost all of the negative discussion stems from the same half-dozen people who posted again and again on one of the now-ghost town mechanical keyboard forums a couple years ago, whereas I have exchanged thousands of emails with folks, many of whom let me know privately that they followed the manual and are happy with the setup. And almost all of their reports centered on one product that ended production years ago, instead of the dozens of variations of keyboards that have been released since then.
Apologies in advance for my long-windedness. To quote Oscar Wilde: “The truth is rarely pure and never simple.”
Regarding the warranty - nonworking parts are replaced for free under the limited warranty. If someone is saying otherwise, they didn't read the project or did not contact me to ask for a replacement. You don't have to live with a broken keycap.
Regarding paint wear - the main complaint - this was with the original production keyboards that started shipping over 6 years ago. 5 years ago, the paint formulation changed to a more modern, tough powdercoating that has received zero complaints of premature wear. Bottom line, if you want tough powdercoating, pick a model besides the classic style F62/F77. That’s the only one with the paint-wear issues. The originals still have some stock remaining (with full disclosure of this, and now sold at a hefty discount), which is why it’s still brought up every now and then that these two old models can be bought today and will have the old coating because they were made a long time ago.
Regarding firmware - the project switched to Vial several years ago. To change a key you can now use the Vial GUI. Additionally, a new controller has been made that is based on the RP2040; it also uses Vial firmware. Many changes since the old days of original xwhatsit firmware and QMK. With the new Leyden Jar controller you literally click a key combination to enter the bootloader, an empty drive appears in the file manager, and you copy and paste the firmware file to that folder.
Regarding the manual, keys getting stuck etc. - the manual has recently been rewritten and reorganized into easy to follow, step-by-step instructions. I think the main complaint is that many folks believe that all products should arrived fully assembled and never require maintenance or adjustments; they think if they have to adjust something as a normal part of setup that it is somehow broken. I explain below why that's just not possible for a small project like this one. Additionally, someone else wrote their own ultra short manual which can be found as a link on the manual page on the project website. It’s normal to spend a couple hours to setup the keyboard and then a few minutes to adjust keys and springs every now and then. The manual is designed to cover every possible step to setup and maintain these keyboards in the decades to come; not every action is needed as pa...
I'm a bit of a clicky switch enthusiast. I use gateron melodics, which have a click leaf, meaning the click sound directly corresponds to actuation, unlike most modern clickies.
So I am very curious about beam springs. I doubt I would ever use one every day (I am pretty set on split ortholinears that sit low on the desk with short keycaps) but would love to try one.
33 comments
[ 4.3 ms ] story [ 52.5 ms ] threadI know many of you are keyboard aficionados and I wanted to let you know that the Model F keyboard guy is making a 2nd generation of his Beam Spring keyboards. I got one and it is unlike any other keyboard I have ever used: the tactile feedback is precise like a buckle spring but louder and with a more pronounced break. Travel feels longer and obviously the keyboard sits very high compared to modern board. But it's a heck of a typing experience if you are interested.
I've you've never heard of beam spring keyboards, this was the IBM keyboard before buckle-springs (same guy, Richard Harris) took over. It uses a very different mechanism than buckle-spring:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFYoh5VcZvg
Very cool that someone is working to bring back these older key switches!
From the page:
> What is a Beam Spring Keyboard? Before the Model F keyboard was the Beam Spring keyboard, a keyboard that was designed to be like the IBM Selectric electric typewriters but made to work with IBM’s mainframe terminals. Originals regularly sell for over $1,000 to $2,000 but now you can get one in various “normal” modern layouts and various color options for a fraction of that cost. The new beam spring keyboards are also compatible with MX keycaps (see below for details).
The sound is satisfying yes, but with other people in mind I am looking for the quietest mechanical keyboard I can find these days. I have become self conscious about typing quietly during phone calls or meetings in case I am unmuted.
It died quite quickly after and become parts donor for old IBM Model Ms I bought out from people’s attics. It was a wonderfully repair-unfriendly thing, too.
I’d get one if the shipping to EU would be more reasonable.
Has their finishing improved at all? A coworker bought one, maybe 15 years ago. He has to spend time with a file to remove all the remnants of the molding process. I'd expect a nearly $200 keyboard to feel finished and not have sharp pieces poking out all over the place.
I've long thought about getting a Unicomp, but seeing how poorly finished they were always gave me pause and made me question what other shortcuts they took.
The 104-key model F I’ve got has a dead spring in numpad delete, and I can’t carve out enough time to disassemble and fix it. Mind you, I did disassemble, put in DIY foam, and reassemble a Model F XT, so I’m not afraid to do it.
Between me ordering the beam spring one and getting it, I managed to change my citizenship, name, and house. But it was only a two year wait, the first Model F remake (60%) took three years and I was quite late to that party.
Yeah, I’ll pass
Do not use any beam spring keyboard in a mission-critical environment.
I can say this is the first time I've seen this in the sales description for a keyboard. Are these assembled from NOS parts?
I'm not associated with this project in any way, but I'm excited to see the Beamspring (and Model F capsense stuff) is still ticking along. I keep meaning to redesign my controller for the 2020s but the original crappy design keeps working perfectly for my needs and I can't justify the time to update it. I'd love to do something dumb like throw an FPGA at the problem or try and use the RP2350 PIO. I don't think we ever matched what IBM's original ASIC achieved.
They were only about $100 on ebay at the time though.
As far as the beam spring goes, this is the second revision of these switches. These switches are a complete modern re-imagination of the original beam spring switches and support Cherry-style key caps. Unlike the Model F, the switches are self-contained and setup just involved putting key-caps on. The keyboard worked flawlessly and immediately.
This is an enthusiast trying to bring back classic keyboard switches that have been out of production for decades, so I am willing to grant him some slack in general, but I'm extremely happy with my board. It's a very different typing experience, but I love it. I understand many people aren't willing to risk $400 on a keyboard, but I also want to let people know about my great experience with it.
You are seeing discussion of issues in these HN comments and in the project thread in recent years due to me preparing and shipping a few thousand keyboards over that time, not because a high percentage of boards are permanently nonrepairable. If you can follow what’s in the manual, you are guaranteed to have a working keyboard, period. It’s nice to receive a note that all is well, but most folks only email/post if there is an issue. If several dozen out of 7,000+ folks are posting with issues that does not indicate mass quality control improvements needed. Almost all of the negative discussion stems from the same half-dozen people who posted again and again on one of the now-ghost town mechanical keyboard forums a couple years ago, whereas I have exchanged thousands of emails with folks, many of whom let me know privately that they followed the manual and are happy with the setup. And almost all of their reports centered on one product that ended production years ago, instead of the dozens of variations of keyboards that have been released since then.
Apologies in advance for my long-windedness. To quote Oscar Wilde: “The truth is rarely pure and never simple.”
Regarding the warranty - nonworking parts are replaced for free under the limited warranty. If someone is saying otherwise, they didn't read the project or did not contact me to ask for a replacement. You don't have to live with a broken keycap.
Regarding paint wear - the main complaint - this was with the original production keyboards that started shipping over 6 years ago. 5 years ago, the paint formulation changed to a more modern, tough powdercoating that has received zero complaints of premature wear. Bottom line, if you want tough powdercoating, pick a model besides the classic style F62/F77. That’s the only one with the paint-wear issues. The originals still have some stock remaining (with full disclosure of this, and now sold at a hefty discount), which is why it’s still brought up every now and then that these two old models can be bought today and will have the old coating because they were made a long time ago.
Regarding firmware - the project switched to Vial several years ago. To change a key you can now use the Vial GUI. Additionally, a new controller has been made that is based on the RP2040; it also uses Vial firmware. Many changes since the old days of original xwhatsit firmware and QMK. With the new Leyden Jar controller you literally click a key combination to enter the bootloader, an empty drive appears in the file manager, and you copy and paste the firmware file to that folder.
Regarding the manual, keys getting stuck etc. - the manual has recently been rewritten and reorganized into easy to follow, step-by-step instructions. I think the main complaint is that many folks believe that all products should arrived fully assembled and never require maintenance or adjustments; they think if they have to adjust something as a normal part of setup that it is somehow broken. I explain below why that's just not possible for a small project like this one. Additionally, someone else wrote their own ultra short manual which can be found as a link on the manual page on the project website. It’s normal to spend a couple hours to setup the keyboard and then a few minutes to adjust keys and springs every now and then. The manual is designed to cover every possible step to setup and maintain these keyboards in the decades to come; not every action is needed as pa...
So I am very curious about beam springs. I doubt I would ever use one every day (I am pretty set on split ortholinears that sit low on the desk with short keycaps) but would love to try one.
This stuff has cool factor but it’s pretty terrible compared to the incredibly varied and fully customizable modern mechanical keyboard market.
It was a nice novelty for me to have an “IBM keyboard” but outside the novelty it wasn’t anywhere close to being a competitive keyboard.
Someone interested in this should just buy real vintage equipment as the novelty factor on that is way higher.
Must be alien tech.
Jinkies!
great!