What about Crossrail Place in Canary Wharf, doesn't count?
Otherwise there are plenty of other roof terraces which are bars/restaurants. Typically more enjoyable as you don't have to book tickets and you get to enjoy a drink.
> Tate Modern had high hopes for the 10th floor of the Blatnavik Building with its cafe and a four-sided observation terrace with excellent views of the Thames. Alas it also had great views into the apartments at Neo Bankside whose residents ultimately sued and won, thus if you arrive by lift today you can only visit the cafe.
I was curious about what type of arguments you could make to win a case like this.
"The Supreme Court commented that the degree of overlooking from visitors to the Tate gallery was so extreme it subjected the residents to being “much like being on display in a zoo” and held that there is no reason why constant visual intrusion cannot give rise to liability for nuisance."
> more likely to get planning permission if their new skyscraper included a free public roof terrace
If that's the deal, it's crazy that some of those places are getting away with then discouraging the public from actually going there. Book your visit in advance! Present ID! Photography forbidden! This grumpy security guard will be hovering nearby <3
It's like Nathan For You S03E01 where a store advertises a $1 TV, then tells the drawn in would-be customers to please respect the black tie dress code, crawl through a tiny door, and squeeze past the alligator.
If you think about the potential risks, it is hard to come up with a different model.
The roof has a maximum capacity, not just physically, but for safe evacuation in case of a sudden problem. Hence the limits on attendance.
You'd like to prevent some idiotic or predatory behavior - no one should be able to throw things down onto the street, take over half of the available space for their influencer recordings or unpack a rope and start an inpromptu tightrope walking performance. Roofs often host telecommunication equipment which is expensive and has some strategic value, you'd like to prevent someone from damaging it or at least have a clear identity of a person that did just that.
It is also a place with very limited escape routes, so any panic may translate into crushed people. E.g. no guns, even empty ones, no explosives, nothing that is easily flammable.
Even if there's no door charge, you know that this is part of an ongoing effort to eliminate any place where the "wrong people" might congregate. Eliminating third spaces for youth and poor/homeless people. It's like putting a bar across the middle of a bench so people can't lie down - it's meant to punish poor people and it also makes things worse for everyone else, but our society finds seeing poor people to be the least comfortable thing possible.
This was pretty much my thought as well. If this was done in the US they'd somehow structure access so that it was impossible to actually go there and enjoy the place. The city council would laud it as an accomplishment expanding access to public spaces to all citizens
sf has POPOs and you're sort of right - they were pretty easy to access 10 years ago, but the pandemic gave them enough cover to mostly shut these down or heavily discourage access - though plenty remain open : https://sfpopos.com/
> Alas it also had great views into the apartments at Neo Bankside whose residents ultimately sued and won, thus if you arrive by lift today you can only visit the cafe
Reading these comments, "The Tragedy of the Commons" [https://pages.mtu.edu/~asmayer/rural_sustain/governance/Hard...] comes to mind: those who frequent London's many little known free roof terraces know that mentioning them here instantly blows their cover.
This is so odd to learn about, thank you. I live in Washington State, USA, and almost all of our beaches are public access. We have a bunch of "public terraces" in Seattle and other cities. hopefully London can move beyond this idea of privatizing access to water features of viewing platforms.
Kendall Square, Cambridge, USA (MIT neighborhood) has something like this, but it's not good.
The space was originally a beloved "public roof garden" which I believe was done as a real estate developer concession to the city. The landscaping itself was whatever, but it was a nice escape from the industrial university campus neighborhood. Get away from your university or industry lab, at any time of day or night, and go up above the commotion, to more sunlight or a view of the stars, with a friend.
Then Google wanted to expand their office space. IIUC, there was a very strange city committee approval, without a quorum, by a single person, who stepped down afterwards.
Much of the public roof garden space was taken. And what remains was remodeled into a nano-Googleplex style grounds party deck, outside their windows. And surveillance cameras, and security guards who often make their presence known.
But it's still technically open to the public. (Challenge: From Broadway, try to spot the signage for it, in a great moment of visual design low-contrast white-on-light-pink signage, amidst larger bold high-contrast color decorations. Even if I tell you it's in a recessed corner beside a parking garage, and you have the benefit of StreetView rather than walking along the sidewalk, and I even tell you what color to look for, you'll have trouble. Under normal conditions, you'd have no idea the public access concession was even there, which presumably was the task given to the designer who must hate that this is what their career has come to.)
And when it's not locked, you can go up there, and get a lookout view of some of the city, while being under the evil eye yourself, and constantly feel like you should leave, which you soon do.
I think Japan has something similar, does anyone else know? A lot of big buildings have free/open roof terraces.
Most are fairly claustrophobic. The Ikebukuro Seibu building had an amazing, open roof garden with this big reflecting pool round table: https://danzuka.earth/019_seibu-ikebukuro-roof-garden/ . It was pretty quiet, and it was especially great because there are basically no public tables in Ikebukuro, so you could buy food at the shops below and eat it on the roof (plus it had toilets, trash cans, and drink vending machines!)
They just demolished it and replaced 70% of the space with a big BBQ restaurant though. So I feel like either whatever legal requirement they had to create the space must have expired, or maybe it was used as part of the initial pitch when they were getting permits for the building and now that it's established they can walk back guarantees or whatever...
I've been in some of these in a different capital city. It's worth it, the visits have informed be what kind of person I'm. It's a subtle feeling of waste, seeing the people queue to the elevator, and then going all the way up to see some bushes growing in misery but enough concrete and rooftops to, well, keep you assured you are in a city. Many of my friends enjoy those places. I just find it way nicer to go for a long stroll in the woods.
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[ 2.6 ms ] story [ 60.8 ms ] threadOtherwise there are plenty of other roof terraces which are bars/restaurants. Typically more enjoyable as you don't have to book tickets and you get to enjoy a drink.
I was curious about what type of arguments you could make to win a case like this.
"The Supreme Court commented that the degree of overlooking from visitors to the Tate gallery was so extreme it subjected the residents to being “much like being on display in a zoo” and held that there is no reason why constant visual intrusion cannot give rise to liability for nuisance."
https://www.tlt.com/insights-and-events/insight/supreme-cour...
Really strange take, that applies to so many situations where tourists gather
If that's the deal, it's crazy that some of those places are getting away with then discouraging the public from actually going there. Book your visit in advance! Present ID! Photography forbidden! This grumpy security guard will be hovering nearby <3
It's like Nathan For You S03E01 where a store advertises a $1 TV, then tells the drawn in would-be customers to please respect the black tie dress code, crawl through a tiny door, and squeeze past the alligator.
The roof has a maximum capacity, not just physically, but for safe evacuation in case of a sudden problem. Hence the limits on attendance.
You'd like to prevent some idiotic or predatory behavior - no one should be able to throw things down onto the street, take over half of the available space for their influencer recordings or unpack a rope and start an inpromptu tightrope walking performance. Roofs often host telecommunication equipment which is expensive and has some strategic value, you'd like to prevent someone from damaging it or at least have a clear identity of a person that did just that.
It is also a place with very limited escape routes, so any panic may translate into crushed people. E.g. no guns, even empty ones, no explosives, nothing that is easily flammable.
bummer
If you've got friends/fam with you it is definitely worth paying for the observation deck at the shard.
The space was originally a beloved "public roof garden" which I believe was done as a real estate developer concession to the city. The landscaping itself was whatever, but it was a nice escape from the industrial university campus neighborhood. Get away from your university or industry lab, at any time of day or night, and go up above the commotion, to more sunlight or a view of the stars, with a friend.
Then Google wanted to expand their office space. IIUC, there was a very strange city committee approval, without a quorum, by a single person, who stepped down afterwards.
Much of the public roof garden space was taken. And what remains was remodeled into a nano-Googleplex style grounds party deck, outside their windows. And surveillance cameras, and security guards who often make their presence known.
But it's still technically open to the public. (Challenge: From Broadway, try to spot the signage for it, in a great moment of visual design low-contrast white-on-light-pink signage, amidst larger bold high-contrast color decorations. Even if I tell you it's in a recessed corner beside a parking garage, and you have the benefit of StreetView rather than walking along the sidewalk, and I even tell you what color to look for, you'll have trouble. Under normal conditions, you'd have no idea the public access concession was even there, which presumably was the task given to the designer who must hate that this is what their career has come to.)
And when it's not locked, you can go up there, and get a lookout view of some of the city, while being under the evil eye yourself, and constantly feel like you should leave, which you soon do.
Most are fairly claustrophobic. The Ikebukuro Seibu building had an amazing, open roof garden with this big reflecting pool round table: https://danzuka.earth/019_seibu-ikebukuro-roof-garden/ . It was pretty quiet, and it was especially great because there are basically no public tables in Ikebukuro, so you could buy food at the shops below and eat it on the roof (plus it had toilets, trash cans, and drink vending machines!)
They just demolished it and replaced 70% of the space with a big BBQ restaurant though. So I feel like either whatever legal requirement they had to create the space must have expired, or maybe it was used as part of the initial pitch when they were getting permits for the building and now that it's established they can walk back guarantees or whatever...