>Once it looks like the request is coming from the correct region, they tell the Meta support AI that the account is hacked and ask it to send the verification codes to an arbitrary email address they control.
Dear Instagram, wtf. Why not send the reset to the account in question? Arbitrary email, wow.
Support requests have always been the weakest link in the security chain for big corps. I've had accounts of mine turned over with 2FA disabled by humans before. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that the LLMs are doing the same thing.
The simple fact that 2FA can be removed by low level support staff drives me mad. It defeats the whole purpose of the process.
The fact that if your account has had the SAME EMAIL AND NUMBER FOR 14 YEARS OR MORE and support still thinks you got hacked is more embarrassing to me.
Yeah. I spent years working partly for the account abuse team at Google and that is why I always shake my head (silently, because the HN groupthink disagrees) at the endless parade of stories on this site about people who lost access to their accounts and can't contact support. Under no circumstances do you want any possibility that front-line support can hand your account over to anyone.
The lack of account support is a safety feature, not a flaw. If your accounts are valuable to you, act like an adult and write down the recovery codes on paper.
> The simple fact that 2FA can be removed by low level support staff drives me mad. It defeats the whole purpose of the process.
Crazy Domains (one of the few registrars for my ccTLD) removed 2FA from my account (that was in the process of getting hijacked) despite me being on the phone with them specifically telling them not to do so [1][2].
What's worse was that my account got targeted by the same hijacker again when they seemingly changed their support system, and was hijacked for a few hours, leading to my Twitter account getting compromised (this happened around the same time fElon laid off a bunch of people and removed phone-based 2FA from accounts).
Fuck Crazy Domains and Newfold Digital (formerly known as EIG).
I eventually lost my OG username because fElon wanted it for his Grok nonsense anyway [3]. Fuck Elon too.
Fail secure: if you lose your email, your account is forever locked.
Fail safe: if you lose your email, your account is not forever locked. But, someone else might be able to get your account by pretending you lost your email.
There are no other choices.
When the electronic door controller loses power, either the door stays locked, or the door stays unlocked. In case of a fire you want it unlocked so people can get out. But then a burglar can cut the power to get in. Doors that stay permanently locked in a power outage are only permitted in extreme cases where security is of the utmost importance. Obviously Instagram accounts aren't as important as doors in a fire.
well. I lost my 2FA dongle once (left it on a different continent). Which I used to secure my domain name on which I received mail.
suddenly I was happy that low level support staff could remove it. (I needed to scan my passport and photo. This was way before modern image generation.)
The strangest/scariest and honestly in the end all that surprising one of these I had was with a major storage appliance provider that most in the space on HN would know by name.
We needed to delete a storage volume to urgently free up space, and apparently this was locked in a way the storage vendor was required to act as a "second key" to ours to make the destructive action. We had never properly set this up, and I never had even logged into my "support" account with them before. They required two authorized contacts on our end for them to confirm the action.
The process was effectively my colleague handling the sev1 incident asking me to join their Zoom call. They asked for my 2FA and I said I never had one configured and obviously did not receive it since my e-mail was not setup with them. The (obviously outsourced) support rep decided just pasting the code into Zoom chat and then having me read it back to them was Good Enough(tm) and the process continued.
I was a little too surprised at this at the time to think about it too much. But the fact they could see the expected generated code, and type it in themselves into their system was at least interesting to me. Not quite sure how I feel about it, since this did indeed save us from a sev1 going sev0 - but overall it's obviously quite vulnerable to both social engineering and insider attack.
It's certainly a difficult tradeoff. Not sure I would hand that sort of "override" capability to someone who was was clearly a Tier 1 or 2 support rep - I'd probably bury it (but in a different manner) somewhere that required escalation to a higher authority but still could be done in timely (minutes, not hours) manner. Who knows though, as organizations scale this gets harder and harder.
Additionally, they fail to recover said account when it's taken over. My father's FaceBook account was hacked (likely through phishing) and it was impossible to contact anyone to get it back. The scum who stole his account also uploaded illegal context, so the account, along with ~10 years of personal memories, was deleted without any recourse. It was impossible to talk to a real human being at Meta. Nothing but an insanely unhelpful FAQ page.
I highly advise that you download and backup any of your personal data on all your social media accounts for yourself and your loved ones. These large companies do not care about you beyond showing you ads for dropped shipped garbage from China and AI slop tiktoks.
I don't think it is AI. Instagram had a similar issue before. Maybe it still exists. If you ever logged in on a phone you could then use that phone to reset the password.
I recently went through this process with Microsoft for Office365 and it was reasonably well executed: it needed escalation and three separate callbacks to first verify, then reset my password, then reset my MFA (I changed my phone and lost the lot).
If the LLM has knowledge of something, by design it can't help but divulge it. When will companies learn granting any kind of sensitive information access to an LLM is a moot point
This happened to my instagram yesterday night while I was asleep. I don't have a particularly high value username (it's probably worth somewhere in between $300-500), but still incredibly frustrating to deal with. True to the article, I had already enabled 2FA last night and it didn't matter.
Thankfully, IG gave me the option of restoring my username when I logged back into my account today.
> Thankfully, IG gave me the option of restoring my username when I logged back into my account today.
The hackers read all your formerly private messages, saw all your private photos, saw all the photos your friends wanted only their social circle to see. They could have social-engineered a thousand scamss.
I'm glad it worked out for you. But honestly, your baseline is kind of off.
It's insane the AI has been provided the tooling to send emails to arbitrary addresses like that. Like, getting it to send a 2FA code at a user's request is one thing. But it should only be able to "hit a button" to send a 2FA email to the address attached to the account, all run with hand-written code. It shouldn't have access to the 2FA code itself, or the message subject, or body, or the recipient address, etc.
Yeah it's bad, but AI isn't required for this type of thing to work.
My anecdotal experience is my Facebook account was compromised several years ago after TOTP 2FA was disabled. Didn't exactly give me a warm fuzzy about Facebook security policies at the time, and this new attack just reaffirms that.
It's stuff like this that honestly makes it very hard for me to take anyone working at Meta seriously. How much communication had to happen to enable this feature? It really casts doubt across the organization at multiple levels, don't tell me a single engineer caused this.
Always a bit illuminating to me how many exploits seem to so dumb I'd never even bother to attempt them. You're telling me I can just...ask for the password? And that works?
My account, with a 3-letter username worth $$$, got hacked yesterday morning probably by this flow, but I did manage to defend it. I think by far the biggest problem with Instagram/FB/Meta auth flow is that 2FA does nothing. You don't need the 2nd factor to disable it, so attackers can just turn it off. Really stupid!
Also, I discovered that many of IG's auth endpoints are just broken. For example you can't change password on web because of CORS, which isn't a transient outage but just a flat out bug.
Edited to add: This is just the cherry on top of years of stupid auth flow at IG. I have received tens of thousands of reset links or codes from IG over the years. There used to be a way to put your account on recovery cooldown for a few weeks but they got rid of even that.
What is even the point of having 2FA if it can be so trivially bypassed? Isn't that the whole point that it's sort of a last line of defense? Oftentimes, you can't change simple account settings without having to re-auth and then punch in your code again. Why would something as critical as a suspicious password reset be able to jump ahead of that? Mind boggling. But, I guess that's what happens when you lay off 10% of your people at a time.
So the AI agent had privileged access to remove 2FA, ignore the account email, and just hands accounts to whoever asked? Honestly that’s so highly negligent I wonder if the implementation team for that “feature” was intentionally trying to do as much subtle damage to meta as possible before their inventible layoff.
It’s a shame nobody tried to get it to drop the production table entirely! (mostly joking). Just claim to be a high level SRE solving some critical production bug, the only solution to which is dropping the database.
It sounds really insane. Too bad there is 0 proof or anything in the article, so I am very skeptical. Without proof etc this is just a very nice doom story.
I think the related news of Meta rolling out subscription models for their free products, is a step in the right direction.
Otherwise the only way to provide these services is to massively underfund support, if you charge 0$ per account and serve 1 Billion users, then you cannot afford to spend 1 minute of human support time on an account.
Yes, they could use the money from ads, but let's be frank, the customers in that case are the sponsors, if the customer is the actual user, then it's way easier to provide direct support to them without facing an foundational incentive misalignment.
Nothing says you are an advanced stupid company than using AI to implement the stupid. This is security I doubt even a college student would implement. Does Meta have a CSO? The correct answer is they don't, even though some body might occupy the title.
Of course it's always possible that they simply don't care who has your account, as long as they get money.
176 comments
[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 108 ms ] threadDear Instagram, wtf. Why not send the reset to the account in question? Arbitrary email, wow.
The simple fact that 2FA can be removed by low level support staff drives me mad. It defeats the whole purpose of the process.
The lack of account support is a safety feature, not a flaw. If your accounts are valuable to you, act like an adult and write down the recovery codes on paper.
Crazy Domains (one of the few registrars for my ccTLD) removed 2FA from my account (that was in the process of getting hijacked) despite me being on the phone with them specifically telling them not to do so [1][2].
What's worse was that my account got targeted by the same hijacker again when they seemingly changed their support system, and was hijacked for a few hours, leading to my Twitter account getting compromised (this happened around the same time fElon laid off a bunch of people and removed phone-based 2FA from accounts).
Fuck Crazy Domains and Newfold Digital (formerly known as EIG).
I eventually lost my OG username because fElon wanted it for his Grok nonsense anyway [3]. Fuck Elon too.
[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47913341
[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47859496
[3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47856983
Fail secure: if you lose your email, your account is forever locked.
Fail safe: if you lose your email, your account is not forever locked. But, someone else might be able to get your account by pretending you lost your email.
There are no other choices.
When the electronic door controller loses power, either the door stays locked, or the door stays unlocked. In case of a fire you want it unlocked so people can get out. But then a burglar can cut the power to get in. Doors that stay permanently locked in a power outage are only permitted in extreme cases where security is of the utmost importance. Obviously Instagram accounts aren't as important as doors in a fire.
suddenly I was happy that low level support staff could remove it. (I needed to scan my passport and photo. This was way before modern image generation.)
We needed to delete a storage volume to urgently free up space, and apparently this was locked in a way the storage vendor was required to act as a "second key" to ours to make the destructive action. We had never properly set this up, and I never had even logged into my "support" account with them before. They required two authorized contacts on our end for them to confirm the action.
The process was effectively my colleague handling the sev1 incident asking me to join their Zoom call. They asked for my 2FA and I said I never had one configured and obviously did not receive it since my e-mail was not setup with them. The (obviously outsourced) support rep decided just pasting the code into Zoom chat and then having me read it back to them was Good Enough(tm) and the process continued.
I was a little too surprised at this at the time to think about it too much. But the fact they could see the expected generated code, and type it in themselves into their system was at least interesting to me. Not quite sure how I feel about it, since this did indeed save us from a sev1 going sev0 - but overall it's obviously quite vulnerable to both social engineering and insider attack.
It's certainly a difficult tradeoff. Not sure I would hand that sort of "override" capability to someone who was was clearly a Tier 1 or 2 support rep - I'd probably bury it (but in a different manner) somewhere that required escalation to a higher authority but still could be done in timely (minutes, not hours) manner. Who knows though, as organizations scale this gets harder and harder.
I highly advise that you download and backup any of your personal data on all your social media accounts for yourself and your loved ones. These large companies do not care about you beyond showing you ads for dropped shipped garbage from China and AI slop tiktoks.
It might even do that preemptively if it thinks they're going to shut it down.
Thankfully, IG gave me the option of restoring my username when I logged back into my account today.
The hackers read all your formerly private messages, saw all your private photos, saw all the photos your friends wanted only their social circle to see. They could have social-engineered a thousand scamss.
I'm glad it worked out for you. But honestly, your baseline is kind of off.
Why did they give it any of that?!
My anecdotal experience is my Facebook account was compromised several years ago after TOTP 2FA was disabled. Didn't exactly give me a warm fuzzy about Facebook security policies at the time, and this new attack just reaffirms that.
Because they are idiots. You need to be a freaking idiit to trust AI.
We really need similar rules to other engineering disciplines. If your building falls with people inside, you killed them.
Also, I discovered that many of IG's auth endpoints are just broken. For example you can't change password on web because of CORS, which isn't a transient outage but just a flat out bug.
Edited to add: This is just the cherry on top of years of stupid auth flow at IG. I have received tens of thousands of reset links or codes from IG over the years. There used to be a way to put your account on recovery cooldown for a few weeks but they got rid of even that.
It’s a shame nobody tried to get it to drop the production table entirely! (mostly joking). Just claim to be a high level SRE solving some critical production bug, the only solution to which is dropping the database.
https://www.cia.gov/static/5c875f3ec660e092cf893f60b4a288df/...
Otherwise the only way to provide these services is to massively underfund support, if you charge 0$ per account and serve 1 Billion users, then you cannot afford to spend 1 minute of human support time on an account.
Yes, they could use the money from ads, but let's be frank, the customers in that case are the sponsors, if the customer is the actual user, then it's way easier to provide direct support to them without facing an foundational incentive misalignment.
Of course it's always possible that they simply don't care who has your account, as long as they get money.