The whole "AI race" is a construct of American startup founders trying to get more money. The government picked up that line because it seems fun and useful to be "wining a race" against China. It's all nonsense. China doesn't care if they get AI first or second, they can replicate anything in a few months. They know it's only an excuse to get more money in the hands of billionaires.
"Their Head of Infrastructure, in particular, was young; maybe 30 years old and apparently one of the best AI buildout and energy experts in the country"
Those allegations reeks of projection and as far as I can tell in the case of DeepSeek - it is simply not true that their model is a distillation of a Western model.
We're lucky to have China imposing competiton to the western AI megacorps.
If it wasn't for China, I would probably have to spend $100/mo on AI instead of $10 like I do currently while using DeepSeek and MiMo (opencode Go plan).
And while I could do so comfortably, I feel for those who can't. It must feel incredibly isolating to only watch others have access to expensive models to leverage their careers.
I hope SoTA AI becomes an universal right because it will contribute to too much income disparity otherwise.
Ever since I found Opencode Go AI coding is fun. I always hate the feeling of working inside a fenced constraint where if I just go hard enough I suddenly hit a wall and have to pay up a LOT more.
It's crazy how much you get out from Deepseek V4 Flash alone.
Not sure what I read, but sounded like a lunch meeting description; felt void of actual information, with the restaurant replaced by the office. I am in China and can tell it is either Kimi, DeepSeek or Claude (proxied or actually deepseek/fake). The bigger push for the general public died down a lot since last year; kids were pushed to use AI for homework, now it is disallowed and frowned upon. In short mixed messaging.
Why would the agent send the results of the query "Show me my recent transactions" to LLM? This pretty deterministic results which involve no LLM interpretation or decision making.
I remember reading a similar tweet explaining DeepSeek breaks the insane Chinese work culture. They are against 996 and brutally grinding employees. They feel like a big family and that is their hedge against poaching by Chinese Big Tech with bigger salaries. Liang Wenfeng seems to be the only AI CEO down to earth. I want to believe.
A lot of companies were like this in 1970-80s based on stories from my parents and grandparents.
People worked in the same company for 30-40 years, when they were sick their colleagues felt like friends and visited them, tried to help with whatever they could.
vs now.... I heard XYZ is sick today (they were sick once in a year), deadlines will definitely slip, give me this project, because it is impactful for me next promo
I can't recall the scientist's name, but he said months ago that DeepSeek is best for Physics (maybe it was on The Diary of a CEO podcast). So I had a long chat about the Simulation Hypothesis, and I was really surprised by how good, deep, and straight to the point it was.
What's brutal is that Google, which started this AI revolution, has literally the worst coding model! I tried 3.5 Flash last week (the stupid still pays for Ultra due to Google One's storage), and before I gave up on 3.1 Pro, I saw a coding agent hallucinate for the first time in months, even at the highest effort level!
Meanwhile, I've tried DeepSeek with the DeepSeek TUI (now CodeWhale), and it didn't do any worse than Codex or Claude Code. I know there are benchmarks and all, some of them gamed, I'm sure, but in real-world experience, DeepSeek is absolutely amazing for its price! If you have software engineering skills and are not an accidental vibe-coder, honestly, try it out and stop burning money. I'm sure you will get even better results with OpenCode! Human Intelligence + Artificial Intelligence beats the highest AI model without the guidance of a HI!
Meanwhile, I burned through my entire budget on the $200 Max for Fable 5, for a modest-amount project in Python using its own CLI coding agent. What a waste!
I keep hearing "always use the bestest model" - no, always use the most practical one for the job! I got so many issues with Fable on a very small project that even Copilot found that it's simply not worth it for 99% of your tasks!
It's just insane how different experiences are. I've let it spin for 2 days on difficult tasks for my job, it found very complex esoteric race condition bugs which were genuinenly the type of "will take you 5 days to figer out what went wrong".
And on my personal account I was developing my own ORM in one session, on the other let it spin for 5h on "implement civilization II from scratch". It got quite far and everything it did genuinenly worked well, until they disabled Fable. The strange thing is that I was surprised by how little usage that actually costed, I didn't even hit the daily limit. Was expecting to be cut off directly with my subscription based on what people said yet it kept going and usage showed I had plently left.
How come, we all have such different burn rates or even results?
Funny this was posted here the same day the Anthropic CEO posted a doomsday prediction begging for government regulation. I was curious how the Chinese feel about AI risks considering I would expect them to be more cautious than the Americans, but they clearly aren’t. Which indicates to me that the Anthropic CEO is probably just pushing for regulatory capture. I mean, maybe he believes what he is saying, but I don’t.
Sorry you had to remove this post. As far as I can tell it did not say anything that is not already in the public domain.
The story of DeepSeek is incredibly inspirational: The founder being a phd in computer science, completely bootstrapping his AI efforts by doing quantitative trading, and even as they reached the frontier in the hottest subfield being more open than any other lab about what they were doing.
In general I find the attitude of the Chinese AI labs (and government) to be refreshingly not "AGI-pilled" and focusing on the correct downsides of AI (the effect on youth employment and the messing up of higher education).
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[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 59.3 ms ] threadThis is a refreshing perspective.
China is an atheist country. The whole "creation" thing didn't even mean anything special to normal Chinese people.
Chinese viewer have a meh reaction to Edward Scissorhands, they don't have a Frankenstein Complex.
Expert in buildout or expert in distillation?
We're lucky to have China imposing competiton to the western AI megacorps.
If it wasn't for China, I would probably have to spend $100/mo on AI instead of $10 like I do currently while using DeepSeek and MiMo (opencode Go plan).
And while I could do so comfortably, I feel for those who can't. It must feel incredibly isolating to only watch others have access to expensive models to leverage their careers.
I hope SoTA AI becomes an universal right because it will contribute to too much income disparity otherwise.
It's crazy how much you get out from Deepseek V4 Flash alone.
I assume it will get reposted at some point.
A lot of companies were like this in 1970-80s based on stories from my parents and grandparents.
People worked in the same company for 30-40 years, when they were sick their colleagues felt like friends and visited them, tried to help with whatever they could.
vs now.... I heard XYZ is sick today (they were sick once in a year), deadlines will definitely slip, give me this project, because it is impactful for me next promo
What's brutal is that Google, which started this AI revolution, has literally the worst coding model! I tried 3.5 Flash last week (the stupid still pays for Ultra due to Google One's storage), and before I gave up on 3.1 Pro, I saw a coding agent hallucinate for the first time in months, even at the highest effort level!
Meanwhile, I've tried DeepSeek with the DeepSeek TUI (now CodeWhale), and it didn't do any worse than Codex or Claude Code. I know there are benchmarks and all, some of them gamed, I'm sure, but in real-world experience, DeepSeek is absolutely amazing for its price! If you have software engineering skills and are not an accidental vibe-coder, honestly, try it out and stop burning money. I'm sure you will get even better results with OpenCode! Human Intelligence + Artificial Intelligence beats the highest AI model without the guidance of a HI!
Meanwhile, I burned through my entire budget on the $200 Max for Fable 5, for a modest-amount project in Python using its own CLI coding agent. What a waste!
I keep hearing "always use the bestest model" - no, always use the most practical one for the job! I got so many issues with Fable on a very small project that even Copilot found that it's simply not worth it for 99% of your tasks!
And on my personal account I was developing my own ORM in one session, on the other let it spin for 5h on "implement civilization II from scratch". It got quite far and everything it did genuinenly worked well, until they disabled Fable. The strange thing is that I was surprised by how little usage that actually costed, I didn't even hit the daily limit. Was expecting to be cut off directly with my subscription based on what people said yet it kept going and usage showed I had plently left.
How come, we all have such different burn rates or even results?
The story of DeepSeek is incredibly inspirational: The founder being a phd in computer science, completely bootstrapping his AI efforts by doing quantitative trading, and even as they reached the frontier in the hottest subfield being more open than any other lab about what they were doing.
In general I find the attitude of the Chinese AI labs (and government) to be refreshingly not "AGI-pilled" and focusing on the correct downsides of AI (the effect on youth employment and the messing up of higher education).