Ask PG: Fix the broken flagging system? Surface article just got flagged off FP
If there's anything flag worthy there, can anyone please tell me what it is? From the HN guidelines "If you think something is spam or offtopic, flag it by going to its page and clicking on the "flag" link."
As usual, I suspect it's the overzealous MS haters armed with the flag button. Simlar things happen to some anti-Google and anti-Apple stories.
I think the logic behind the flagging system was that someone good enough to get enough karma(now 500) would be objective enough not to flag anything legit that show their favorite company in bad light. Clearly that has failed. Paul Thurrott's Winsupersite is completely banned from HN because of this and any articles that reach front page that paint MS in good light are flagged to death. I have multiple screenshots of this happening if anyone cares to want them.
The flagging system is clearly outdated and broken and doesn't account for people with good karma trying to censor legitimate news articles they don't want others to see.
30 comments
[ 78.2 ms ] story [ 945 ms ] threadThey're just waiting for the inevitable Gruber's, Marco's or Siegler's deprecating takes and hit pieces on the Surface Pro pricing. Those will stay on the front page for days. This typically happens with any important MS related announcements or launches.
A good start would be to make it a bit transparent by actually showing the number of flags. I sometimes also wonder if it's the shareholders of competitor companies or some of their employees doing the flagging.
HN Rankings graph showing the sudden plunge. http://hnrankings.info/4848998/
http://hnrankings.info/4849090/
Microsoft mocks Internet Explorer haters in new ad
http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4849090
They should be thankful the dev community is giving IE10 a go and actually being encouraging to some extent.
Why should propaganda necessarily be something we see promoted on HN? At last previous MS ads apologised for the 1000s of hours debugging poor IE bugs.
It's meant for bad links. Spam and off-topic articles are included, but that is not its exclusive use. For example, a post about how much the author hates gay startup founders is more on-topic than a lot of stuff that gets posted here, but is nonetheless inappropriate on numerous levels.
I don't know if I would flag a news story about a Microsoft ad campaign, but I'd probably at least consider it, because those are not generally very intellectually stimulating.
You (and recoiledsnake) seem to make the exact same accusations on a very regular basis, but I'm not clear on how you're arriving at them.
For example, an article with 45 points posted 10 minutes ago will have a higher ranking than an article with 10 points posted 45 minutes ago.
The Surface article with 50 points was ranking much lower than articles with less points posted before it. That indicates flagging.
As to the front page being wonky, can you point out any instances of articles with 50 points posted 1 hour ago being in the second page?
>how are you concluding that flagging causes something to fall off the front page any faster than normal
That's the whole point of flagging. If the flags are many more, it will even kill the post completely.
Also, see http://hnrankings.info/4848998/
The sudden plunge does not happen with other stories.
In all sincerity, the quality and quantity of your earlier comments on this left me with the impression that you had nothing but accusation and rage. (Disclaimer: I use Windows on a ThinkPad. I have a Samsung phone.)
Also, I don't rely on the front page, rarely vote on stories and have flagged maybe two or three times, so this isn't something that I am particularly concerned with or think anybody else should be. But comment quality I am concerned with, and so I care to the extent that addressing this issue will assist you and cooldeal posting fewer of the same angry comments.
So, to that extent, while I remain unconvinced that the problem is as described, I appreciate the effort.
That indicates flagging. [..] That's the whole point of flagging.
You answered neither of my questions: How are you counting the number of flags? Where are you getting the idea that flagging is effectively a downvote? I've never understood flags to cause anything to happen without a human moderator.
That's the way most sites work. HN isn't most sites. Unlike vBulletin, etc. content on HN isn't static. Like up and downvotes, flagging allows community moderation without the moderators getting involved. They can work instead.
People know how flagging works on HN because the basic code is available for inspection.
Windows has ABSOLUTELY dominated the world (in numbers, at least) for over two decades and is still #1. What's your problem? Not enough attention? Not getting enough hipster love for your c0rp0r4t10n?
There are 2 stories about Windows and one about Microsoft on the homepage. Boo hoo?
Works both ways.
They are attempting to change their tact, from ruthless business tactics to inspiring the people. Maybe that hasn't translated yet to the HN mind
If these were honest mistakes, then you should consider any downvotes as feedback indicating a need to improve your written communications to better and more clearly express your thoughts to an HN audience.
People generally don't like sales stories that promote a product unless its from a trusted source.