I have a 20m fibre optic cable, these things are great. Thinner than a standard cable. They are unidirectional, but mine has a dedicated copper line for CEC. 4k 120hz is no problem.
I also have a Pulse Eight CEC adapter in the chain, but I had to swap its included HDMI cable for full bandwidth.
Since I've switched to Linux I haven't had a chance to set up the software side for CEC though, does anyone happen to have recommendations?
One of the better tech investments I’ve made is in a 20 metre Thunderbolt cable from Corning. It’s surprisingly useful- if you have a monitor that takes TB input then your computer can be stored in a small closet next to your router/switch, where you can’t hear it. Alternatively if you just need a quick 10Gb Ethernet link between two computers with USB4 or TB3/4 that it would be complicated to have next to each other, you can use it for that as well.
I really hope Corning eventually make a TB5 cable.
Interesting idea! I'm currently using Parsec to connect to a computer in a closet (due to noise/heat). It's low latency, sure, but a direct Thunderbolt connection would be lower!
Speaking of Steam and controllers - is anyone else annoyed by piss poor compatibility of PC games with Steam onscreen keyboard. I can count on one hand games with seamless integration, where it popups after moving to input field.
The manual Steam/XBox + "X" shortcut always shows the keyboard, but games like to ignore submitted value. My favorite example is Dark Souls character creation screen, it is the only place in the entire game you can and need to enter text, and it is faster to walk the 50ft and back, than to get it working.
Does anyone have a proper (and not overly expensive) solution for also moving input devices somewhere else? My main device is not in the same room as my TV.
I did a USB extension and fiber optic DisplayPort to game on my old rooftop deck. It was very nice.
The first cable I bought was 150ft! Too long! Really hard to coil.
I've been on sunshine/moonlight mostly these days (updating to Apollo/artemis is in progress), but I do sometimes wire my desktop to my patio with this cable & wireless input devices these days. That spot is pretty sun exposed so it needs a real sweet spot, where-as the streaming just works anywhere & is easy, but sometimes it's nice enjoying the flawless low latency.
Ive been using Moonlight on my Apple TV, with a 8bitdo controller connected to the Apple TV. My gaming computer is running bazzite and runs Sunshine as streaming server and it handles basically any game. I did use Steam Remote Control earlier but i found it quite unstable and slow compared to Sunshine which basically just works out of the box. Ive beaten Silk song and Elden ring on the setup. Its just wired 1gb networking. In the future i might upgrade to faster networking to get down the latency but its not really needed as long as i dont stream in 4k (my computer doesnt really do 4k that well anyway). The computer(s) have nvidia and amd gpus, both work just as fine.
Mine is moving my Razer laptop from my office to next to my TV and picking up my controller which is slightly annoying but at least I can play games at a good FPS which the Steam Machine cannot do
If you already have Ethernet at both ends I cannot recommend enough game streaming. With the right setup it is almost identical to having my computer plugged in physically, and I am very sensitive to input latency.
I can get 4K HDR 120Hz running over gigabit Ethernet without visually sacrificing too much on bitrate, but you can squeeze more bitrate at lower fps or 1440p (obviously) if that is your preference. You can also tune these settings per-game with the setup I have which is quite useful.
Hardware wise, I'm using a Steam Deck as the streaming client in a docked setup (ala Nintendo Switch). It seems to handle everything I can throw at it, and it has the bonus of being able to run simpler games without streaming anything.
I have a third-party (UGREEN) dock providing power, USB and gigabit Ethernet, display (though unfortunately no HDMI-CEC to turn the TV on automatically (I worked around this using a janky automation script)). The official dock has HDMI-CEC but costs ~2x as much with less IO. I'll deal with my jank script.
For software, I'm running MoonDeck for game streaming via Sunshine on my gaming PC. The Steam Remote Play streaming is good, but not quite _as_ good, sadly.
I tried using the official steam client on my TV (running some google/android TV OS) which was hard-wired in (100 Mbps) which should be sufficient for 1080p/60 if not 4K/60 but there is some android TV bug that adds an unacceptable audio lag. Video quality was fine. (https://steamcommunity.com/app/353380/discussions/0/62441675...)
Seems like a waste to use a steam deck for this when the TV hardware seems more than powerful enough but if it works it works, and my steam deck is gathering dust anyway. Thanks for the idea.
So, I just discovered MoCa Coax in the house, and it's the kind of thing that makes me feel silly, especially since we don't have cable tv. I suppose it's because of the ubiquitousness of "wireless."
> If you already have Ethernet at both ends I cannot recommend enough game streaming. With the right setup it is almost identical to having my computer plugged in physically, and I am very sensitive to input latency.
There still some issues. If your beefy machine has monitor of a different resolution it gets a bit wacky. In the past I had to plug fake HDMI-EDID thing because my main PC is ultra-wide and what will get streamed is a coin toss: sometimes it's ultra-wide made to fit in destination screen, sometimes It's something else.
If game you're trying to stream has a launcher: again, coin toss - might display launcher that is PITA to use from controller or not at all. I recall having to walk to another room to do the launcher steps on the main PC to play on steam deck.
Meanwhile, PS Portal is flawless when connected to 5GHz network.
Back when I actually had a gaming PC, I loved using my Steam Link. I used powerline Ethernet to get a decent connection from my bedroom to the basement and it worked well, rarely stuttering. I could never get the D-pad working on my PS4 controller with the Link, no idea what went wrong but my wired 360 controller was perfect. I would use a handheld wireless keyboard/touchpad for any kb/mouse input. It was great.
Used to use moonlight/sunshine to stream to my steamdeck hooked to my TV, but switched over to just using a long HDMI cable and a wireless controller. Have everything hooked up with Home Assistant, so when I start the PC in a specific automation, it will automatically switch output to the TV and start steam in big picture (steamdeck) mode. Works fairly well. Using a normal distro (Fedora), so no dual boot shenanigans.
If something goes wrong, either get out of the couch (duh!) or remote with moonlight :-)
I have a setup where I use a HDMI-over-Ethernet extender [0] to play games in my living room from my homeoffice desk setup in the bedroom. Funnily, the computer and TV are just 1m apart, but separated by a wall and I didn't want to drill (it is a rental). Luckily it is new construction, and all rooms have CAT7 ethernet outlets (most rooms even have two). I use a female-to-female ethernet coupling in central fusebox to bridge those cables together (they need to be directly connected, switching is not possible). So the signal travels around 30-40m over ethernet even though the devices are literally back-to-back against a wall.
HDMI-to-Ethernet extender cost around 50€, but is limited to 1080p@30, 720p@60 or 1080p@60 in "low quality mode" (macOS lingo) - which is enough for me. Low quality mode is still good enough for games. As you just read, my computer is a Macbook Pro so it is not AAA games anyway. I think there are now extenders that can do 1080p@60 on regular HDMI quality.
1. Can't wake up your PC with controller. Workarounds with custom scripts and WoL are ridiculous. They also don't solve having to log in afterwards and starting a game.
2. Because of missing HDMI-CEC, you have to switch to PC output manually on TV
3. Same issue in opposite side. PC stupidly uses TV output even if TV is off. If you want to use the PC without TV, you gotta disable TV output. What's that, you can't see display menu so you can do this? Yeah because that menu showed up on your TV that is off, since it's set as primary display, which is needed for games to launch on that screen.
For first issue, you gotta walk to your PC to turn it on, login and launch game.
For 2) and 3), it's easiest to plug in cable in TV when you need to and plug it out when you are done.
I don't know why there isn't a consumer product yet solving this without hassle.
My gaming PC motherboard recently sh*t the bed. It was over 10 years old and I’ve beaten that thing up quite a bit. It’s Zen 1, so new MOBO basically means like 70% new PC. Before the price was announced I figured I’d look into a Steam Machine because I also want a well-supported Linux box for coding. I already have a PS5 Pro - which turned out to actually be a decent investment because the price has been increased multiple times since I bought it. When I saw the price of the Steam Machine I just *sigh*’d. Reviews are saying the Steam Machine barely stacks up against a base PS5. Excuse me, WHAT!?
Was considering just getting a MacBook Neo to tide me over until I can build a proper PC and they just jacked up the prices. I’ll probably still end up getting one but I just gotta wait a bit longer.
I’m currently surviving on a 2012 iMac my mother in law asked me to get the files off of for her and she gave me the computer itself. Installed Ubuntu on it and it’s…fine…but it doesn’t even have an SSD so it can be rough at times.
It’s ridiculous. I’m a software engineer, and I can’t even afford mid-level technology anymore (not American so I don’t have the ridiculous salary like some).
Thankfully my M1 Max Mac Studio from a few years ago is still going strong and my employer pays for that anyway. It’s also for work only. Though I suspect not gonna happy when either 1) I need an upgrade for local LLM developement for the AI projects coming down the pipe or 2) he sees the API bill because he can’t be arsed to make an upfront investment.
I have my LLM/gaming PC tucked in a rack in my basement:
- 100ft DisplayPort + USB cables going to my home office's monitor
- 100ft HDMI cable going to the TV on the wall in my home office
- 30ft HDMI + USB cables going to my receiver in the upstairs gaming/tv room
Works great. I can control/game from any of the three screens, and I also have Moonlight to sometimes control the PC remotely either in the house (bedroom) or externally via Tailscale.
I have an old Steam Link lying around, but I never have a use for it anymore, so while I can understand that there is an audience for Steam Machine, if you are capable, and have a dedicated gaming machine, a couple of long active/fiber HDMI+USB cables is all you really need.
I don’t understand why the Steam Machine is getting so much hate. The form factor is amazing and a huge part of the value proposition. It’s slightly bigger than a box of Kleenex and you can put it next to the TV, on your desk, etc. I’m tempted to get one just to free up the floor space used by my ATX case. The graphics capability seems good enough, most people can live without 4k gaming.
And we don't know yet, but I am hoping for reliability. My gaming PC is a nightmare. Sometimes it works great. Other times, I have to sacrifice a goat to get the thing to work.
I don't think the majority of ppl are giving it hate tbh - I think it's just a HN thing. everyone I know that is into gaming is excited about it. I would chalk it up to consumer misunderstanding around the pricing, but I actually think most consumers that are interested in buying a steam HW product are fully in the know why there's a chip shortage. I am in the group that is waiting for the price to drop, but I am excited to get mine!
>I’m tempted to get one just to free up the floor space used by my ATX case
if you're willing to spend a grand just to free up a few inches of floor space I don't think you're going to understand the reaction of the average consumer to prices in the current economic climate
Apple is proof that people still like spending money on expensive little nice things, even in this economic climate.
I understand there is a segment that is disappointed that the Steam Machine isn't being priced as a discount item, but there is a large segment that still wants to pay.
The Steam Machine is a victim of RAM prices exploding. It's price is fair considering the price of its parts but also causes it to be in a price segment where I am not sure who it is for.
People that can afford a Steam Machine at the current price point are likely to already have stronger hardware.
A Mac Mini a similarly sized with like half the price with dramatically better CPU. Or if you could get a PS5 pro, still for cheaper with vastly superior gaming performance.
Valve could have started with a premium model for the hardcore fans that are less price sensitive and released a budget version later when maybe the RAM apocalypse has ebbed.
I don’t understand who the target is. I can afford one but I’ve already got a PS5 Pro and it just works. I’ve got a threadripper+blackwell running Linux too, but it gets 2/3 the framerate of when I boot it to windows for games. When I had more time and less money, I would have built a gaming PC that would be better and cheaper than the steam offering. So the market isn’t me.
Who is it? Who wants a gaming machine connected to their TV? Every PS5 and Nintendo owner. Are they the target market? Why would a PS5 owner spend $1100 on a machine that places games worse if at all? So I can FPS with a mouse? DRM doesn’t work. So I can play RTS? No I’m sitting at my desk over my keyboard.
Who wants a Linux PC connected to their TV that doesn’t already have a Linux PC connected to their TV? Who wants a smaller, less customizable box? That you can’t swap out the graphics card when they inevitably become a lot cheaper? Who wants a last gen AMD GPU and not be able to swap it out for a 5080 once things are cheaper again and the 6060 comes around?
Who is this for? I’m not hating on it. It’s not for me and I don’t know who it IS for.
Define lots? You are describing someone who: 1/ has spent many years building a steam collection (has $$$) and 2/ has a collection of console-playable games but never bought a console to play them. (Suggests doesn't have $$$). and 3/ doesn't already have, or desire building, a SFF upgradable PC?
Like, the sweet spot is they have to: 1. have $$$ of games, 2. have $1200 to spend on a second PC and 3. not have, nor desire to have, an upgradeable SFF PC.
$1200 is a 5070ti or a 5080 (just). We know they have a PC already (they have $$$ steam games). If I have a PC already and I play games, and it doesn't have a 5080, then I'm spending my $1200 on the 5080, not a living room console. So, now we're talking about someone who either has a 5080, or plays the kind of casual games that don't need a 5080. My experience is that those kind of games aren't great on a TV and a joystick. I'm not playing Factorio, Civ, Rimworld or Citizen Sleeper on a TV with a controller!
I've got quite a steam collection, but they are all non-console games. That's the distinction for whether I bought it on steam or for a console.
Is there a large demographic who bought console games on steam because they don't own a console?
Anyway, valve themselves have the demographics, so presumably they see a target market. I just don't know what it is! =)
Yeah man I think your logic is massively flawed. You’re making assumptions based on your own preferences. Not every gamer is going to prefer the latest gpu and yes there are plenty of gamers whose libraries are filled with games that are meant for controllers and consoles, in fact I’d argue that this is more common than your choices.
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[ 2.7 ms ] story [ 77.2 ms ] threadI also have a Pulse Eight CEC adapter in the chain, but I had to swap its included HDMI cable for full bandwidth.
Since I've switched to Linux I haven't had a chance to set up the software side for CEC though, does anyone happen to have recommendations?
I really hope Corning eventually make a TB5 cable.
Maybe it's possible to order an aesthetically-looking cube sculpture even. Or make one with Legos.
The first cable I bought was 150ft! Too long! Really hard to coil.
I've been on sunshine/moonlight mostly these days (updating to Apollo/artemis is in progress), but I do sometimes wire my desktop to my patio with this cable & wireless input devices these days. That spot is pretty sun exposed so it needs a real sweet spot, where-as the streaming just works anywhere & is easy, but sometimes it's nice enjoying the flawless low latency.
Can't people see any usecase for the steam machine?
I understand, you are not in the market for it.
I am, I have a good usecase which possibly will make the cost drop below a ps5 over the years (if you include games cost)
Can you show the parts list where you found this level of performance cheaper, with new parts, current prices?
I can get 4K HDR 120Hz running over gigabit Ethernet without visually sacrificing too much on bitrate, but you can squeeze more bitrate at lower fps or 1440p (obviously) if that is your preference. You can also tune these settings per-game with the setup I have which is quite useful.
Hardware wise, I'm using a Steam Deck as the streaming client in a docked setup (ala Nintendo Switch). It seems to handle everything I can throw at it, and it has the bonus of being able to run simpler games without streaming anything.
I have a third-party (UGREEN) dock providing power, USB and gigabit Ethernet, display (though unfortunately no HDMI-CEC to turn the TV on automatically (I worked around this using a janky automation script)). The official dock has HDMI-CEC but costs ~2x as much with less IO. I'll deal with my jank script.
For software, I'm running MoonDeck for game streaming via Sunshine on my gaming PC. The Steam Remote Play streaming is good, but not quite _as_ good, sadly.
Second hand info though, I have a friend who swears by those but he didn't give me the details.
Seems like a waste to use a steam deck for this when the TV hardware seems more than powerful enough but if it works it works, and my steam deck is gathering dust anyway. Thanks for the idea.
Anyway, will be looking into all of this soon.
There still some issues. If your beefy machine has monitor of a different resolution it gets a bit wacky. In the past I had to plug fake HDMI-EDID thing because my main PC is ultra-wide and what will get streamed is a coin toss: sometimes it's ultra-wide made to fit in destination screen, sometimes It's something else.
If game you're trying to stream has a launcher: again, coin toss - might display launcher that is PITA to use from controller or not at all. I recall having to walk to another room to do the launcher steps on the main PC to play on steam deck.
Meanwhile, PS Portal is flawless when connected to 5GHz network.
I just had a screen and a internet connection. Bliss.
HDMI-to-Ethernet extender cost around 50€, but is limited to 1080p@30, 720p@60 or 1080p@60 in "low quality mode" (macOS lingo) - which is enough for me. Low quality mode is still good enough for games. As you just read, my computer is a Macbook Pro so it is not AAA games anyway. I think there are now extenders that can do 1080p@60 on regular HDMI quality.
[0]: https://www.amazon.de/OREI-Anschl%C3%BCsse-Splitter-Extender...
1. Can't wake up your PC with controller. Workarounds with custom scripts and WoL are ridiculous. They also don't solve having to log in afterwards and starting a game.
2. Because of missing HDMI-CEC, you have to switch to PC output manually on TV
3. Same issue in opposite side. PC stupidly uses TV output even if TV is off. If you want to use the PC without TV, you gotta disable TV output. What's that, you can't see display menu so you can do this? Yeah because that menu showed up on your TV that is off, since it's set as primary display, which is needed for games to launch on that screen.
For first issue, you gotta walk to your PC to turn it on, login and launch game. For 2) and 3), it's easiest to plug in cable in TV when you need to and plug it out when you are done.
I don't know why there isn't a consumer product yet solving this without hassle.
Was considering just getting a MacBook Neo to tide me over until I can build a proper PC and they just jacked up the prices. I’ll probably still end up getting one but I just gotta wait a bit longer.
I’m currently surviving on a 2012 iMac my mother in law asked me to get the files off of for her and she gave me the computer itself. Installed Ubuntu on it and it’s…fine…but it doesn’t even have an SSD so it can be rough at times.
It’s ridiculous. I’m a software engineer, and I can’t even afford mid-level technology anymore (not American so I don’t have the ridiculous salary like some).
Thankfully my M1 Max Mac Studio from a few years ago is still going strong and my employer pays for that anyway. It’s also for work only. Though I suspect not gonna happy when either 1) I need an upgrade for local LLM developement for the AI projects coming down the pipe or 2) he sees the API bill because he can’t be arsed to make an upfront investment.
Something has to give.
- 100ft DisplayPort + USB cables going to my home office's monitor - 100ft HDMI cable going to the TV on the wall in my home office - 30ft HDMI + USB cables going to my receiver in the upstairs gaming/tv room
Works great. I can control/game from any of the three screens, and I also have Moonlight to sometimes control the PC remotely either in the house (bedroom) or externally via Tailscale.
I have an old Steam Link lying around, but I never have a use for it anymore, so while I can understand that there is an audience for Steam Machine, if you are capable, and have a dedicated gaming machine, a couple of long active/fiber HDMI+USB cables is all you really need.
And we don't know yet, but I am hoping for reliability. My gaming PC is a nightmare. Sometimes it works great. Other times, I have to sacrifice a goat to get the thing to work.
if you're willing to spend a grand just to free up a few inches of floor space I don't think you're going to understand the reaction of the average consumer to prices in the current economic climate
I understand there is a segment that is disappointed that the Steam Machine isn't being priced as a discount item, but there is a large segment that still wants to pay.
People that can afford a Steam Machine at the current price point are likely to already have stronger hardware.
A Mac Mini a similarly sized with like half the price with dramatically better CPU. Or if you could get a PS5 pro, still for cheaper with vastly superior gaming performance.
Valve could have started with a premium model for the hardcore fans that are less price sensitive and released a budget version later when maybe the RAM apocalypse has ebbed.
Still hope it sells, the form factor is amazing.
Who is it? Who wants a gaming machine connected to their TV? Every PS5 and Nintendo owner. Are they the target market? Why would a PS5 owner spend $1100 on a machine that places games worse if at all? So I can FPS with a mouse? DRM doesn’t work. So I can play RTS? No I’m sitting at my desk over my keyboard.
Who wants a Linux PC connected to their TV that doesn’t already have a Linux PC connected to their TV? Who wants a smaller, less customizable box? That you can’t swap out the graphics card when they inevitably become a lot cheaper? Who wants a last gen AMD GPU and not be able to swap it out for a 5080 once things are cheaper again and the 6060 comes around?
Who is this for? I’m not hating on it. It’s not for me and I don’t know who it IS for.
Lots of people don’t want to buy a ps5 and split ecosystems. Lots of people don’t want to tinker with sunshine.
Like, the sweet spot is they have to: 1. have $$$ of games, 2. have $1200 to spend on a second PC and 3. not have, nor desire to have, an upgradeable SFF PC.
$1200 is a 5070ti or a 5080 (just). We know they have a PC already (they have $$$ steam games). If I have a PC already and I play games, and it doesn't have a 5080, then I'm spending my $1200 on the 5080, not a living room console. So, now we're talking about someone who either has a 5080, or plays the kind of casual games that don't need a 5080. My experience is that those kind of games aren't great on a TV and a joystick. I'm not playing Factorio, Civ, Rimworld or Citizen Sleeper on a TV with a controller!
I've got quite a steam collection, but they are all non-console games. That's the distinction for whether I bought it on steam or for a console.
Is there a large demographic who bought console games on steam because they don't own a console?
Anyway, valve themselves have the demographics, so presumably they see a target market. I just don't know what it is! =)