Falling valuations spell horror for vcs. More recently launched funds have been returning markedly less money to investors than those of earlier vintages, according to the World Economic Forum. They have also underperformed the s&p 500 by a wide mark, particularly those that did not invest in a small club of artificial-intelligence superstars
Zero interest rates kept many weak companies alive but they also have give great companies time to find product market fit, and the hard part is to separate the two in hind sight
I'd be interested in any examples where a "zombie" company in the US was sloshing around for a few years and then finally found product market fit. I think it's probably incredibly rare, and I don't think it's really that hard to identify weak companies that have been treading water for years as you appear to think.
My impression is a lot of these companies raised mega rounds right before interest rates went up, and are now able to tread water by cutting headcount enough that their revenue + interest can sustain them. To what end? Who knows...
Yeah, but burn rates are high. The money is mostly gone by now, and the run way is approaching its end in the next 12-18 months. Hence the “great devaluation “ they are predicting
Cameo (an example in the article) is an interesting one. It seems like a stable, steady business, making money, should be easy to accurately value if you have access to the financials. No surprise that the "It's $1bn!!!" valuation came from Softbank Vision Fund. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cameo_(website)
This is I think a very common issue. The term "startup" has two connotations: a nascent business trying to find its product/market fit and "a private business whose capital structure is dominated by VC money"
Companies that fall out of the first definition -- they've found their market, such as it is, but it's smaller, more competitive etc., than is needed for hypergrowth -- but are still in the second definition are in a bind. They've generally used up all their ideas, and have created a nice, small business. This should be a win, but in SV it's the worst kind of failure. The VCs aren't going to want to book a loss, so the company thrashes about trying to figure what else to do while trying to keep its business running. They should and ought to be evaluated using normal accounting, but that would mean the value of the business is a fraction of its "valudation"
This ends in the company being strangled by its own mal-investment, or sheer exhaustion when everyone, the management and the VCs, face reality, take the L, and leave the business for private equity to run off the remaining terminal value. Maybe sometimes this becomes a lifestyle business, but more than likely it's just a transition from the washing machine of "this month's great idea for growth" (they never pan out) to the grind of cost-cutting and extracting any customer surplus out of the system, leaving everyone miserable.
Companies being devalued is not news. It happens on the stock market everyday.
For companies that rely on outside investment to survive however it can become a slide to oblivion.
If the company itself is profitable, then typically it can continue. There's no interest rate on VC investment, and if profitable it can run forever. Customers, employees, users and so on are all fine. Investors? Well, they're potentially getting some returns through dividends, but its minor and not what they were chasing.
Of course the VC investment model is high risk. That's kinda the point. It's a bet on IPO or (valuable) acquisition. Most companies end up as neither.
Will this affect new VC funds in the future? Maybe in the short term. But there are still enough IPOs (like SpaceX now) and still enough greedy people willing to play the lottery. Sure the absolute amount of VC money may come down, but I don't think the model is going away.
Indeed it may start to lead to saner valuations along the way.
If you think it's haunting Silicon Valley, wait til you see what's on the balance sheets of Private Equity, which holds these and many, many more overvalued companies!
We need to stop pretending the VC valuations are meaningful.
It's like asking someone playing roulette to value "13 black", after they bet on it.
There valuations are always based on expectations of huge growth, not current value. Growth predictions with an extremely low confidence level. VCs make up for it by making a lot of bets.
The companies NEVER have current profits (The actual measure of value) that would justify their valuation.
So, it's comparing gambling payouts to corporate valuations, aka "apples to oranges", which are not related.
When the predicted growth doesn't occur, the companies valuation becomes based on its actual value (profits).
I think you are missing the point. I think the software business has become undesirable for VC investment. I am seeing that in the market from the otherside. People think there is no moat. Which I absolutely disagree but yea.
VC invest is same as buying a house. Someone has valued your house is worth x, thats why it is valued at x. There were people willing to invest at 1B valuation now they are not. Market has moved. Imagine, if the area where you bought the house, suddenly is not desirable or theres no one willing to pay for it, then value of your house will go down, in some scenarios to zero. It is as simple as that.
current profits (The actual measure of value) that would justify their valuation
That's...not how value works at all. If it was, all of these rapidly growing companies that haven't made a profit yet would be worth zero. Would you pay $1 for any of the big AI labs? I sure as fuck would.
Value is more about the present value of future cashflows. And it turns out that estimating future cashflows of extremely fast growing companies is really hard.
>> The companies NEVER have current profits (The actual measure of value) that would justify their valuation.
Lol. "Profits" is old person talk. Nobody needs profits. The most valuable company in the world hasnt shown a dime in profit. That doesnt mean everyone cannot get rich. You just have to know the right people. That is all that matters these days. Having profits also means paying taxes... a fools game. Profits are just a sign of a weak expansion strategy and so will generally reduce valuations!
It's funny you say that because you can absolutely value 13 black after it's been bet on. It's actually really easy, I would expect a middle schooler to be able to do so and intuitive understand the concept.
NO. You need to stop pretending that gambling is good and take some social responsibility for the massive class of people in the second-tier service economy because of chronic under-investment in "low growth" industries.
>Their valuations are always based on expectations of huge growth, not current value. Growth predictions with an extremely low confidence level. VCs make up for it by making a lot of bets.
all valuations are based on expectations of the future, that's what the stock market is. Except VC valuations which are based on how much money was invested, extended to cover all the equity rather than just what was purchased. However, the amount of money invested was calculated based on expectations for the future.
the definition of the term "asset" is "something expected to have a value in the future"
This is not the whole story. While there may be some value in terms of marketing to claim a higher valuation there are also many downsides to a higher valuation which in turn for example leads to a higher fair market value that makes executing stock options on a private company extraordinarily costly from a tax perspective. Admittedly the holders of the preferred stock like investors might not have the same incentives as the people who are given stock options but their interests are largely aligned in that they're both interester in retaining great talent and making the company successful (eg valuation higher) but later
It's simple really. If the VC's don't move the money, then it's dead money to them. These are calculated risks that they absorb under the premise of regret minimization. They don't really have a choice but to take occasional losses. It's nearly intentional.
I was an early employee (#20-something) at a company that peaked at just over a billion dollar valuation during Covid and that now sits at somewhere between 1/2 and 1/3 of that depending on who you talk to.
I'm still really close with a lot of early employees and while I was lucky enough to have a liquidity event happen shortly after I left that allowed me to cash out for a decent, but not life changing, return, many of my friends were not.
One of the things I think a lot of people may not realize is how badly this zombiecorn state fucks employees with stock options. A lot of startups will give you a limited amount of time after you leave to exercise your stock options (90 or 180 days is common based on my experience). If you don't exercise your stock options and buy your stock within that time period the options expire and you get nothing. The problem is that if you buy the stock, you won't be able to sell until there's a liquidity event (usually a new funding round or IPO) and current investors don't want to take investment at a lower price unless they absolutely have to.
I know some other early employees who were laid off who had to make the choice between dropping $75k or $100k to buy stock that is worth 10x that on paper (even at the current valuation) and praying for a liquidity event that will probably never arrive or letting go of shares that just a few years before seemed like they would be a life changing amount of money. I know people who've done both and neither route leaves people feeling good about their decision.
I know common wisdom is that you should treat that stock like it's worth nothing until they day you sell, but when you've worked at somewhere for 5-10 years and seen the on-paper value of your stock rise to a life changing amount of money, I think it's hard not to assume that you'll be able to cash that out one day.
Quick warning that finance bros call any healthy company that isn't on an extreme growth path "zombies". In VC eyes they're "undead" because that big fat exit is not likely to come, but actually in reality many of these are perfectly healthy companies doing fine. The journalist who wrote this clearly walks in the same circles cause they're happy to call healthy companies that are alive and kicking, serving their customers, creating jobs and so on, "zombies".
That's not to say that surely there's also plenty of once-unicorns which really are borderline bankrupt, and that lots of these companies were extremely overvalued and VCs made bad deals in the ZIRP. But the term "zombie" is a derogatory anti-entrepreneur term invented by VCs who try to encourage founders to "go big or go bust", quietly disregarding the huge incentive mismatch they got. Because unlike the VCs, the founder has all their eggs in one basket.
>By May 2026, 332 of the 1,900 unicorns in a database maintained by Ilya Strebulaev of Stanford University had raised money at a valuation at or below their peak (see chart). Of those, 212 were valued at under $1bn. As many as 383 had disclosed no new funding in the previous three years; 41 of these had lost unicorn status
332 out of 1900 isn't that bad?
Even the further 338 if confirmed would still be less a minority of the overall 1900
lol I work for one of these still. It was an auto ML product, so the company is desperately trying to pivot to Genai and agents. Trying to catch the wave. I don’t know how well it’s working though. Churn keeps happening in the core business, processes meant for a large corporation are slowing progress in developing the new platform, and leadership has churned till only west coast AI pilled Amazon alums are left.
This will only get worse as the AI bubble pops or cools and generates a ton more AI zombicorns too.
It really sucks for employees as their equity stake gives reason to stick around if there’s a good exit, but as every day passes odds increase that either the company goes bust or gets sold in some aqui-hire or salvage sale that gets investors something back but tends to leave employee shareholders with nothing.
There are post IPO tech zombies as well. Companies that IPOed and aren’t at serious risk of bankruptcy as they have cash, but aren’t profitable and nothing they seem to do changes the trajectory of the company. They could coast for years to come just slowly burning cash but have no clear prospects either to be anything more than a has-been just coasting along the train of irrelevance.
This article focuses on "VCs wringing their hands" about zombie unicorns, but I'm kinda baffled at what the employees are thinking.
For an employee, it would seem like the only (financial) reason to stay at one of these companies is if you didn't have any other options - which I imagine is reasonably common these days with the tech job market being in the shitter. But stock options at these places are nearly guaranteed to be worthless, with any sales proceeds going to investors with preferred shares.
I think a lot of employees may stick around for social/personal reasons ("I helped build this company and I want to see it have a successful exit"), but speaking from experience, it's better to cut ties and move on. Time is your most precious resource, and using your time on a slowly dying company is usually a poor use of that resource.
For the sake of mythological accuracy, I hope that Unicorns sunk by debt and managing to pull into negative ARR (due to overhead costs) will get called Nightmares.
But Zombie Unicorns being an accurate term is enough to make me happy today.
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[ 2.9 ms ] story [ 69.2 ms ] threadAs it has a large potential market if it did dominate globally.
Companies that fall out of the first definition -- they've found their market, such as it is, but it's smaller, more competitive etc., than is needed for hypergrowth -- but are still in the second definition are in a bind. They've generally used up all their ideas, and have created a nice, small business. This should be a win, but in SV it's the worst kind of failure. The VCs aren't going to want to book a loss, so the company thrashes about trying to figure what else to do while trying to keep its business running. They should and ought to be evaluated using normal accounting, but that would mean the value of the business is a fraction of its "valudation"
This ends in the company being strangled by its own mal-investment, or sheer exhaustion when everyone, the management and the VCs, face reality, take the L, and leave the business for private equity to run off the remaining terminal value. Maybe sometimes this becomes a lifestyle business, but more than likely it's just a transition from the washing machine of "this month's great idea for growth" (they never pan out) to the grind of cost-cutting and extracting any customer surplus out of the system, leaving everyone miserable.
I can almost hear this in George Carlin's voice.
Same article:
https://www.businesstimes.com.sg/opinion-features/zombie-uni...
For companies that rely on outside investment to survive however it can become a slide to oblivion.
If the company itself is profitable, then typically it can continue. There's no interest rate on VC investment, and if profitable it can run forever. Customers, employees, users and so on are all fine. Investors? Well, they're potentially getting some returns through dividends, but its minor and not what they were chasing.
Of course the VC investment model is high risk. That's kinda the point. It's a bet on IPO or (valuable) acquisition. Most companies end up as neither.
Will this affect new VC funds in the future? Maybe in the short term. But there are still enough IPOs (like SpaceX now) and still enough greedy people willing to play the lottery. Sure the absolute amount of VC money may come down, but I don't think the model is going away.
Indeed it may start to lead to saner valuations along the way.
Zune-icorn?
Zombicorn!
I know of some actual in use Microsoft Zune that have outlasted many companies that were predicted to become unicorns.
It's like asking someone playing roulette to value "13 black", after they bet on it.
There valuations are always based on expectations of huge growth, not current value. Growth predictions with an extremely low confidence level. VCs make up for it by making a lot of bets.
The companies NEVER have current profits (The actual measure of value) that would justify their valuation.
So, it's comparing gambling payouts to corporate valuations, aka "apples to oranges", which are not related.
When the predicted growth doesn't occur, the companies valuation becomes based on its actual value (profits).
VC invest is same as buying a house. Someone has valued your house is worth x, thats why it is valued at x. There were people willing to invest at 1B valuation now they are not. Market has moved. Imagine, if the area where you bought the house, suddenly is not desirable or theres no one willing to pay for it, then value of your house will go down, in some scenarios to zero. It is as simple as that.
When I was a kid, the valuation of a company was based on the amount of profit that it did taking into account the cost of getting it.
The day that the USA abandoned capitalism for speculative-finance was a bad day for the world economy.
That's...not how value works at all. If it was, all of these rapidly growing companies that haven't made a profit yet would be worth zero. Would you pay $1 for any of the big AI labs? I sure as fuck would.
Value is more about the present value of future cashflows. And it turns out that estimating future cashflows of extremely fast growing companies is really hard.
Lol. "Profits" is old person talk. Nobody needs profits. The most valuable company in the world hasnt shown a dime in profit. That doesnt mean everyone cannot get rich. You just have to know the right people. That is all that matters these days. Having profits also means paying taxes... a fools game. Profits are just a sign of a weak expansion strategy and so will generally reduce valuations!
all valuations are based on expectations of the future, that's what the stock market is. Except VC valuations which are based on how much money was invested, extended to cover all the equity rather than just what was purchased. However, the amount of money invested was calculated based on expectations for the future.
the definition of the term "asset" is "something expected to have a value in the future"
Seems like a classic case of “putting your money where your mouth is” - if you think the valuation is wrong, don’t invest.
(Of course that only applies to those able to invest, but the same principle applies.)
I'm still really close with a lot of early employees and while I was lucky enough to have a liquidity event happen shortly after I left that allowed me to cash out for a decent, but not life changing, return, many of my friends were not.
One of the things I think a lot of people may not realize is how badly this zombiecorn state fucks employees with stock options. A lot of startups will give you a limited amount of time after you leave to exercise your stock options (90 or 180 days is common based on my experience). If you don't exercise your stock options and buy your stock within that time period the options expire and you get nothing. The problem is that if you buy the stock, you won't be able to sell until there's a liquidity event (usually a new funding round or IPO) and current investors don't want to take investment at a lower price unless they absolutely have to.
I know some other early employees who were laid off who had to make the choice between dropping $75k or $100k to buy stock that is worth 10x that on paper (even at the current valuation) and praying for a liquidity event that will probably never arrive or letting go of shares that just a few years before seemed like they would be a life changing amount of money. I know people who've done both and neither route leaves people feeling good about their decision.
I know common wisdom is that you should treat that stock like it's worth nothing until they day you sell, but when you've worked at somewhere for 5-10 years and seen the on-paper value of your stock rise to a life changing amount of money, I think it's hard not to assume that you'll be able to cash that out one day.
That's not to say that surely there's also plenty of once-unicorns which really are borderline bankrupt, and that lots of these companies were extremely overvalued and VCs made bad deals in the ZIRP. But the term "zombie" is a derogatory anti-entrepreneur term invented by VCs who try to encourage founders to "go big or go bust", quietly disregarding the huge incentive mismatch they got. Because unlike the VCs, the founder has all their eggs in one basket.
332 out of 1900 isn't that bad?
Even the further 338 if confirmed would still be less a minority of the overall 1900
It really sucks for employees as their equity stake gives reason to stick around if there’s a good exit, but as every day passes odds increase that either the company goes bust or gets sold in some aqui-hire or salvage sale that gets investors something back but tends to leave employee shareholders with nothing.
There are post IPO tech zombies as well. Companies that IPOed and aren’t at serious risk of bankruptcy as they have cash, but aren’t profitable and nothing they seem to do changes the trajectory of the company. They could coast for years to come just slowly burning cash but have no clear prospects either to be anything more than a has-been just coasting along the train of irrelevance.
For an employee, it would seem like the only (financial) reason to stay at one of these companies is if you didn't have any other options - which I imagine is reasonably common these days with the tech job market being in the shitter. But stock options at these places are nearly guaranteed to be worthless, with any sales proceeds going to investors with preferred shares.
I think a lot of employees may stick around for social/personal reasons ("I helped build this company and I want to see it have a successful exit"), but speaking from experience, it's better to cut ties and move on. Time is your most precious resource, and using your time on a slowly dying company is usually a poor use of that resource.
But Zombie Unicorns being an accurate term is enough to make me happy today.
you only raise money to grow "cash flows". if you can turn $1 into $3 do it. otherwise don't.
unfortunately SV tends to do the opposite - turn $3 into $1.