I am curious about the power grid situation in Europe. Assume the rate of AC usage was as high as the US (or god forbid Japan), how far behind is the grid infrastructure from where it needs to be?
ERCOT (Texas) has daily swings of up to 50 gigawatts of power in the summer. I am pretty sure it is the most volatile US grid in terms of the demand side. A lot of the transmission infrastructure is purpose built for this exact problem.
There are massive distributed solar deployments (eg. people putting cheap solar panels on their roofs, often backed by batteries) happening right now, those should help offset AC demands quite nicely.
They don't have any problem with impact from EVs on the grid, but god forbid AC units. One could obviously solve the peoblem with rooftop solar, which peaks just when you need AC the most.
Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places. Floods and earthquakes are also uncommon, hence the buildings in most places are not up to code against, say, Japanese standards.
The primary difference being, Europe is not increasing their number of fault lines or bodies of water. The number of days of moderate to extreme heat in Europe have already significantly increased and will continue to.
Furthermore, the costs of modern cooling are infinitely cheaper than solutions, if they exist, for other natural disasters.
I lived in both Europe and the United States and traveled around the world. This article makes a lot of sense to me.
Solar panels + cooling + heating heat pump is the most logical combination as we are past the point of no return on global warming.
And there's no need to be like the Americans that cool down to 18°C when the outside is > 35°C: simply decreasing the indoor temperature to saner numbers like 26°C is enough, it's summer after all. Less energy usage and it is enough for the body to be happy.
Americans aren't cooling their homes to 64F in the summer, I have no idea where you get that idea. Generally people will cool their homes to somewhere around 72-78F, which is 22.22-25.56C.
I can relate to a certain type of reluctance, in that I live in a part of the US that has never needed air conditioning. I don't look forward to the hassle and expense of installing a heat pump. I don't look forward to the cost of running one. And I won't like resigning to the fact that the summers I've experienced my whole life, as did my ancestors, are over forever.
Of course when it's regularly in the upper 80sF / 30C I will give in. I just empathize.
> sunlight causes most of the heat issues; cloudy days are unlikely to be extremely hot
> solar panels convert sunlight to electricity
> AC converts electricity to cooler air indoors
Ah, if only there was a way to solve those three problems at once. Alas...
As to the "resistance" to AC: is this an actual thing or just something the media made up? It seems that for the most part anyone who wants AC can just buy it, barring exceptions like historical buildings. If people want to cook themselves alive I’m not really seeing the issue, as they only harm themselves (unlike, say, with vaccines where herd immunity is important).
I can’t hear this degrowth strawman anymore. There are probably 20 people complaining about people wanting degrowth for everyone who actually advocates for that. It’s not like every politician in Europe is advocating for that.
I have seen more criticism of resistance against AC than people actually arguing against AC.
Maybe there is a group of loud AC resistors somewhere that I managed to avoid this whole time? Or maybe the pundits are pushing a narrative to rile people up and drive their substack income like they always do? Who knows!
I always struggle to take these sort of posts from people who don't live in "Europe" seriously. Europe is not a unit like the USA is, it's very diverse, and you generally can't neatly extrapolate your observations from one country to all others.
It hasn't ever been this hot, this regularly, especially in the northen parts of the continent. Add that to the number of historical building, streets, etc, that really can't (or shouldn't) get littered with eyesores on every balcony, and you can understand why AC units never picked up much steam in a lot of places. But that doesn't mean people have some twisted aversion to the technology, in fact, it already exists in many places. Where I'm from (a southern country), it's more common for a public place (buildings, transport, and so on) to have AC than to not have it. On people's homes, it's less common, but there's been a natural increase in demand. Unfortunately, many can't justify the investment to retrofit it into existing buildings, though new ones are likely to be built with central HVAC systems.
I don't know, it feels weird to read pieces like this one. It seems clear the author does not live over here and has a skewed conception of what Europe is and the peculiarities of each country and region. His previous post on the topic even goes as far as calling out some form of resistant to "foreign technology"...
It's easy to make blanket assumptions, but a bit of empathy and a more careful approach into these issues would go a long way.
Central-western Europe will have to massively install ACs, sooner or later, either only for cooling or both. They will not resist the summer heat in the coming years. Good for the AC companies.
The most difficult step is to accept the ugliness of the external unit to their beautiful buildings. Imagine Paris with a gray box hanged out of each 35m2 apartment.
Installing AC feels like admitting defeat. 30 years ago we thought we could stop this thing. Our world leaders came together, listened to scientists and agreed targets.
Sadly we failed. Now I’m going to have to buy AC and make an even bigger contribution to global warming.
As usual with culture war topics: Those examples in that article are often selective quoting and abridging information and a multi-step game of telephone and the language barrier hinders monolinguistic people from crosschecking.
Let's try one example, going back to sources:
1) Noah Smith writes "Meanwhile, some people at Germany’s Federal Environmental Ministry claimed (falsely) that portable air conditioners don’t work.", linking on a tweet by Andrew Hammel.
(Hammel, in my opinion, has radicalised since 2015, producing culture war content about Germany for rightwing english-speaking audiences. I remember his old weblog from the 2000s, when he was a mild-mannered expat.)
2) Hammel's tweet shows a screenshot of an infographic which the news magazine ZDFHeute posted on Instagram. We can see those infographics in context, they are basically practical tips. There is the shortened sentence that the Federal Agency for the Enviroment, the Umweltbundesamt, advises against "portable ACs". That is true. But Hammel, I think, goes nuts.
First practical advice how to behave in a heat wave.
Then practical advice for buildings and new construction, awning, isolation, heat pumps, etc.
Thirdly advice for AC, when necessary: energy efficient (it's the Umweltbundesamt after all), no polluting refrigerants, a preference for split AC units, where the radiator is on the outside instead of the inside. They contrast split AC against "portable units" also knows as monoblocks which are by definition not split but where the radiator is on the same unit and the radiator's hot air either goes directly into the room oder has to be transported outside through an open window. Hence the advice against monoblocks.
Additional complication nobody mentions: Practical all windows in Germany are of the tilt and turn type, which makes them not as practical for window AC units, because then the whole window is open. Take a look at the "portable" AC units sold by a national electronics chain:
Almost all are inefficient monoblocks, no window units, only one portable split AC the Midea PortaSplit - which is sold out. And rather costly with 850 €.
But the PortaSplit is the best practical option for a lot of Germans, because it's a nation of renters.
In summary:
1) The Umweltbundesamt published practical advice including a preference for split AC units against monoblocks. I find that reasonable.
2) The news magazine ZDFHeute published a very abridged infographic quoting that advice. Could be better.
3) Hammel screenshots that infographic, doesn't crosscheck und rants in his tweet more about a strawman than what the UBA actually wrote.
4) Noah Smith simply believes what he sees on social media, I presume, because it fits his preconceived notions.
5) People on Hacker News ... well. Let's say most of them are not good on nuance on Europe.
...
What makes these discussions so annoying is that there is always a kernel of truth. But to put these kernels into context is work. I'm typing here for over half an hour already, just for randos o...
25 comments
[ 0.23 ms ] story [ 188 ms ] threadERCOT (Texas) has daily swings of up to 50 gigawatts of power in the summer. I am pretty sure it is the most volatile US grid in terms of the demand side. A lot of the transmission infrastructure is purpose built for this exact problem.
Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places. Floods and earthquakes are also uncommon, hence the buildings in most places are not up to code against, say, Japanese standards.
Furthermore, the costs of modern cooling are infinitely cheaper than solutions, if they exist, for other natural disasters.
I lived in both Europe and the United States and traveled around the world. This article makes a lot of sense to me.
And there's no need to be like the Americans that cool down to 18°C when the outside is > 35°C: simply decreasing the indoor temperature to saner numbers like 26°C is enough, it's summer after all. Less energy usage and it is enough for the body to be happy.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43167215
Well, cancer is growth, nature and vitality, but not quite positive, is it?
Of course when it's regularly in the upper 80sF / 30C I will give in. I just empathize.
> solar panels convert sunlight to electricity
> AC converts electricity to cooler air indoors
Ah, if only there was a way to solve those three problems at once. Alas...
As to the "resistance" to AC: is this an actual thing or just something the media made up? It seems that for the most part anyone who wants AC can just buy it, barring exceptions like historical buildings. If people want to cook themselves alive I’m not really seeing the issue, as they only harm themselves (unlike, say, with vaccines where herd immunity is important).
Maybe there is a group of loud AC resistors somewhere that I managed to avoid this whole time? Or maybe the pundits are pushing a narrative to rile people up and drive their substack income like they always do? Who knows!
It hasn't ever been this hot, this regularly, especially in the northen parts of the continent. Add that to the number of historical building, streets, etc, that really can't (or shouldn't) get littered with eyesores on every balcony, and you can understand why AC units never picked up much steam in a lot of places. But that doesn't mean people have some twisted aversion to the technology, in fact, it already exists in many places. Where I'm from (a southern country), it's more common for a public place (buildings, transport, and so on) to have AC than to not have it. On people's homes, it's less common, but there's been a natural increase in demand. Unfortunately, many can't justify the investment to retrofit it into existing buildings, though new ones are likely to be built with central HVAC systems.
I don't know, it feels weird to read pieces like this one. It seems clear the author does not live over here and has a skewed conception of what Europe is and the peculiarities of each country and region. His previous post on the topic even goes as far as calling out some form of resistant to "foreign technology"...
It's easy to make blanket assumptions, but a bit of empathy and a more careful approach into these issues would go a long way.
The most difficult step is to accept the ugliness of the external unit to their beautiful buildings. Imagine Paris with a gray box hanged out of each 35m2 apartment.
Sadly we failed. Now I’m going to have to buy AC and make an even bigger contribution to global warming.
Let's try one example, going back to sources:
1) Noah Smith writes "Meanwhile, some people at Germany’s Federal Environmental Ministry claimed (falsely) that portable air conditioners don’t work.", linking on a tweet by Andrew Hammel.
https://x.com/AndrewHammel1/status/2070436290915426555
(Hammel, in my opinion, has radicalised since 2015, producing culture war content about Germany for rightwing english-speaking audiences. I remember his old weblog from the 2000s, when he was a mild-mannered expat.)
2) Hammel's tweet shows a screenshot of an infographic which the news magazine ZDFHeute posted on Instagram. We can see those infographics in context, they are basically practical tips. There is the shortened sentence that the Federal Agency for the Enviroment, the Umweltbundesamt, advises against "portable ACs". That is true. But Hammel, I think, goes nuts.
https://www.instagram.com/p/DZ6xUPUlpYv/?img_index=2
3) Let's crosscheck with what the Umweltbundesamt actually wrote. We can find that on their homepage:
https://www.umweltbundesamt.de/umwelttipps-fuer-den-alltag/g...
First practical advice how to behave in a heat wave.
Then practical advice for buildings and new construction, awning, isolation, heat pumps, etc.
Thirdly advice for AC, when necessary: energy efficient (it's the Umweltbundesamt after all), no polluting refrigerants, a preference for split AC units, where the radiator is on the outside instead of the inside. They contrast split AC against "portable units" also knows as monoblocks which are by definition not split but where the radiator is on the same unit and the radiator's hot air either goes directly into the room oder has to be transported outside through an open window. Hence the advice against monoblocks.
Additional complication nobody mentions: Practical all windows in Germany are of the tilt and turn type, which makes them not as practical for window AC units, because then the whole window is open. Take a look at the "portable" AC units sold by a national electronics chain:
https://www.mediamarkt.de/de/category/klimaanlagen-100.html
Almost all are inefficient monoblocks, no window units, only one portable split AC the Midea PortaSplit - which is sold out. And rather costly with 850 €.
But the PortaSplit is the best practical option for a lot of Germans, because it's a nation of renters.
In summary:
1) The Umweltbundesamt published practical advice including a preference for split AC units against monoblocks. I find that reasonable.
2) The news magazine ZDFHeute published a very abridged infographic quoting that advice. Could be better.
3) Hammel screenshots that infographic, doesn't crosscheck und rants in his tweet more about a strawman than what the UBA actually wrote.
4) Noah Smith simply believes what he sees on social media, I presume, because it fits his preconceived notions.
5) People on Hacker News ... well. Let's say most of them are not good on nuance on Europe.
...
What makes these discussions so annoying is that there is always a kernel of truth. But to put these kernels into context is work. I'm typing here for over half an hour already, just for randos o...