Scooters main priority have been cheap practicality. Fuel efficiency is part of the “cheap” part.
Yamaha’s blue core engine used in its mid sized 300cc scooters can do 2.8L per 100km. It’s 125 engines can do 1.8L per 100km.
They’re incredibly efficient little vehicles
So far electric scooters can only compete in inner city with the equivalent power of a small 125 and limited range/speed due to size/weight constraints
I like Vespas, they're very stylish, but damn they are noisy, and not a nice rumble either but more like a very loud chainsaw. They give off a terrible amount of smoke compared more modern gas scooters too. I do often wonder why so few other new small motorcycles or scooters have similarly beautiful designs though.
However, for me, having lived in a country with a motorbike culture for the last decade, the coolest thing on two wheels is electric scooters. So much torque, range nearly equal to same sized gas scooters, and no pollution of the noise or smoke variety. It makes such a difference when everyone is zipping around on these quiet, non-stinking scooters. That's cool. Now it just needs someone to make an electric scooter design as iconic as a Vespa.
A friend races Vespas. They are apparently well suited to tuning (perhaps being poorly tuned from factory?), and power is much increased. The noise seems to go up vastly more.
He has to re weld the frame from time to time due to the cracks that form.
A guy across the street from me has a new one. It's loud as hell, but this guy is the type to remove his muffler to make whatever car he has this week sound "cooler". I'm not ready to blame the scooter yet.
Yeah, even most two stroke mopeds are tolerable in terms of sound level with stock parts. At least where I'm from youth often replace the exhaust pipe with larger one that maybe brings slight power boost, and a massive increase in noise level. Unfortunately police doesn't really care although it's technically illegal, and these hooligans get to ruin other people's sleep.
I'm talking about the Vespas I actually experience on a daily basis. I don't know if they're new or old, but I can assure you that they are loud and smoky.
It sounds like you're describing a 2-stroke engine, which older Vespas did use. But modern ones use a 4-stroke engine and should have the same emissions profile as any other motorcycle.
I haven't been following the latest developments but about 10 years ago they launched "Vespa elettrica". It was very expensive and low powered at launch. Not sure if they've iterated on it since.
I suspect that other brands of electric motorbike may be better
I live next to a road and combustion-engine mopeds vary from "holy fuck this is loud" to "I can't wait to move out". I used to live close to an airport and that was much better. The specific noise that mopeds make drills into your head. Funnily, I'm never bothered by nails on chalkboard or cutlery on plate, but mopeds, holy fuck, if hell exists, it's full of mopeds.
For better or worse, probably worse, the definitions of both "moped" and "scooter" vary from person to person or jurisdiction to jurisdiction. "Moped" is often used to describe a light motorcycle.
I'm not disagreeing with the origin of the word, I'm just saying it's expanded and changed.
Have you ever "shipped" something that at no point in its journey was carried on a floating vessel? Do you correct people when they say they're shipping something by ground or air?
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux!
Ive been riding scooters and motorcycles for 20 years and I to this day I have no clear image of what a moped might be. I always imagined a theoretical spectrum from pure bicycle -> gas motor equipped bicycle-> moped -> pure motorcycle, but have never encountered a moped.
I own a Piaggio 300cc Scooter, not called a Vespa because it is one of the big wheel variants (similar to Honda SH line) but it has the same engine as the Vespa 300GTS.
It is not at all noisy unless I rev it high, which I try to avoid doing most of the time. It is not loud like for instance a Yamaha T-Max, not helped by it attracting mostly complete retards.
Obviously there are always dumb people mounting akrapovic or other noisy aftermarket exhausts on any bike brand but it is also the same with cars.
That og elettrica has been all but cancelled in most markets. It was grossly underpowered and overpriced, which is a shame. IIRC they relaunched it as the primavera elettrica, without all the green/yellow bits, but it's still the same bike.
I have a couple of Vespas - a '98 T5 and a 2011 PX Unità d'Italia - and honestly my favourite safety feature is the noise they _can_ make. Modern Vespas don’t sound like the old ones from the factory anymore, but the retro scene is strong, so a lot of tuning kits bring back that classic buzz.
In town, filtering, weaving through traffic, getting to the front at lights etc., being able to make a sound which is so ubiquitously embedded in culture that it's instantly recognisable, and so easily localised, really makes a difference. It might be audible, but it's still quieter than many bigger bikes that people ride around town on, and less obnoxious. I guess I'm not the only one who feels that way, as I get a ton of smiles and so many people make an effort to move out of my way - much more so than other bikes I see on the road.
I've been super excited for electric motorbikes for years. I nearly bought a Zero FXS/FXE during covid, and then for the last year or two i've been looking hard at a BMW CE04. But they’d change how I ride, and I’d be more hesitant using them around town simply because being almost inaudible makes me nervous in UK traffic. In saying that, I'd be a lot more comfortable riding around places with a decent cycling culture like Cambridge, where people are used to looking around for smaller quieter vehicles, so I guess this too will change over time. E-bikes are great, but there the problem isn't the ride, it's the theft/security/insurance aspects.
So yeah, I guess until a few of these things change, my buzzy Vespa, with its awesome clutch and gears and crappy little drum brake on the front, will continue to be my go-to.
Solving the safety problem by making it loud does not seem like a great solution.
Fast forward and everyone is driving nearly silent electric vehicles. I wouldn’t want loud Vespas then. Cutting city noise pollution is one of the benefits of electric vehicles.
It's not a great solution but it's the best one I've got, and it's still more ecological than driving the (electric) car for the same one-person trip. And audible != loud.
Anyway, don't most places legally require nearly silent electric vehicles to emit some kind of artificial noise?
I have to agree that the amount of pollution these things put out is really a dealbreaker in modern times, in my opinion. They really smell up a street when they go by, it’s so noticeable after having mainly electric cars and bicycles going by.
Switched from Vespa (combustion) to Unu (electric) and Black Tea (electric) .. and the one feature I yearn for, from the Vespa era, is its noise factor.
Electric is damn quiet, damn smooth, and damn fast. (And damn comfy.)
And that can be a problem. Especially in a city like, say, Vienna, where people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.
I became a much more alert and guarding rider when I switched from Vespa.
Maybe that's a good thing, I dunno, but I am gonna put a whistle on my helmet some day soon, I swear ..
> people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.
Yes, you're supposed to be the one checking that you don't hit pedestrians. Cities are for humans first, machines second. Drive slower. If you want to drive fast, take a road trip.
You can check around all you want but it is not going to help if someone blindly decides to just step in front of you without looking anywhere. Pedestrians sometimes move totally randomly. This is a similar problem when riding a bicycle on a shared path. Sometimes they walk like they were alone on the path
Pedestrians are *also* subject to right-of-way rules, just like everyone else on the road. Many examples of people running between parked/stopped cars and getting smoked when they hit an open lane with a vehicle they did not expect to be there.
This is true. But unfortunately it is correct advice being given to the person who isn’t causing the problem.
It would be interesting to see what an intentionally and well designed city could look like. I’d probably have a walkable city center, no cars, and maybe scooters could be allowed but required to have some automatic wireless-controlled limiter that keeps them below 10mph or something.
You’ve just described Vienna, whose city streets were laid out when walking was the only affordable way to get around .. then horses .. then carts .. then cars .. and so on .. took over the very same pathways.
My neighborhood, which borders one of the ancient entryways into the city (Mariahilferstrasse), is converting to pedestrian-priority streets, chopping off lanes and turning them into an extension of the main Mariahilferstrasse walking street, is an example of just what you describe. It is being laid out with rest stops and trees, and water springs, and so on - and it is delightful, true, to have such conveniences as bike-only lanes. However, they are being exploited by the delivery classes whose mini-me mopeds, limited to 25km/h, are considered ‘bicycles’ for the purposes of the bike lanes. Too many times I’ve seen clueless tourists (mostly Americans) who have no idea what those bike lanes are for, stepping into them, only to narrowly escape death or dismemberment at the hands of the delivery guy, exploiting the lane.
My class bike can only ride on the road, so it’s only in the quieter streets I have to be super-alert .. but man, those guys in the bike lanes are nonsense.
i drove for a few years both a moped that makes noise (the electric angel weeping sound) and one completely silent. Not making noise made many people cross the road without watching and putting me and them both in serious danger, and i'm kinda glad i'm not driving the silent one anymore
It takes a certain kind of arrogance to assume that another person's direct experience must be wrong, and your take, based on a 14 word description of the scenario, must be right.
Two people who actually live the same experience may have different opinions on "right" and "wrong", and the law may differ from those opinions.
But man, assuming bad faith on the part of others is a hell of a way to go through life.
It’s alright, I do not hit pedestrians. I usually brake just in time and then yell at them and tell them to look where they’re fucking walking - often with the addendum to put their stupid fucking phones away and live another day.
I assumed they were talking about cars and other motorists. I drive a scooter (Genuine Buddy) and have crashed before due to drivers not checking properly when at a two way stop
In these little streets there are countless hazards, from tourists who have no idea how to cross a road properly and safely, to other drivers opening their doors without checking the road first, to kids just playing in the streets because the silence makes them think its safe.
As an electric rider I take extra responsibility for my stealth. It is a blessing and a curse. But I’ll get a whistle for some of the quieter alleys .. people really are pretty uninitelligent when it comes to some streets.
The person with the vehicle is who should ultimately be held responsible in the case of an accident, but I also find it absolutely wild when I venture out into the city and see people on their phone with headphones on crossing the street when the walk sign comes on without so much as glancing in the direction of traffic.
You don’t need to lecture me, I have been driving safely and avoiding pedestrians all my life.
The point is, people in cities have become accustomed to using noise as their first sense, and vision much later. Sometimes far too late. And if I hadn’t been driving extremely defensively, as always, I would definitely have hit many, many stupid pedestrians with very little self-preservation sensibility.
If you’re a pedestrian, look both ways before you cross the road. Duh.
Or honk. Does your Vespa have a honk? In Vietnam, we honk our bikes to alert others especially around a curve. Foreign visitors complain about all the honking, and they are indeed annoying sometimes, but there is a reason why people do it.
My Unu/Black Tea (no Vespa) do have honks, but they’re quite whimsy and Viennese will scream murder at you for that as well, especially if they’re standing in the middle of the road with their mobile phone plastered to their faces, and you’ve just added a new black line in the road, braking not to hit them ..
I keep thinking I should upgrade my honk, but I want to experiment with the helmet whistle a bit more, just to see if its effective ..
You should join our unu Community Discord, we have someone who upgraded to what is basically two fog horns at ungodly decibel levels ... but we can also reactivate the builtin speaker and add the spaceship noise maybe?
Great ideas on all accounts, thanks for the tip about the Discord, I’ll look that up soon .. need to get my Unu classic back on the road, has been idle for 2 years after quite some action since it was released .. lovely moped, all things considered, for the city…
The motorcycle version of that is "if cars can't here me from a mile away, then I'm not safe enough" or "broken exhausts save lives" or such, and that makes me hate those particular motorcyclists, too.
Precisely because of the sentiment expressed in the message you’re responding to - Viennese are quite comfortable with the idea that no matter what they do, the person with the expensive transport device is to blame, 100%.
Even when I am in pedestrian mode I find myself cursing those smaller electric moped riders who qualify to ride the bike lane (my bikes are only for the roads) and zoom around like they own the bike lane. I sure do love giving them a lesson when I’m on my bigger bike though. Nothing more satisfying than shouting OIDA at some dufus who almost killed themselves in the bike lane.
In any case, electric riders do have more responsibility. It comes with the comfort.
> And that can be a problem. Especially in a city like, say, Vienna, where people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.
And not just that: Street's full of smombies, already keeping in mind that the situation awareness of the average pedestrian is a joke to begin with.
Also... mopeds and scooters are not a problem here in big-city Europe, they blend virtually completely into the vehicle hum, with two notable outliers: a) asshole mods, and b) the odd classic, two-stroke sewing machine. But even then, there's many other vehicles much louder than scooters. In the countryside they might be more of burden, for obvious reasons.
I used to ride Honda CBR500R as my primary commute vehicle for a few years in Seattle. And while the rumble of the engine was not at the chainsaw-levels of annoying, it still sucked, it still emitted smoke, and I still had to wear ear protection. Which I would need to wear even on an electric motorcycle as well, to be fair, given that I took highway (and the wind noise at speeds above 60mph absolutely hurts hearing; after catching myself speaking way too loud after a ride a couple of times, I just invested into ear protection).
But even at low speeds, the engine noise was imo annoying for pedestrians. And, mind you, I ran it with a stock exhaust. I absolutely despise people who install extra-loud (illegal) aftermarket exhausts on purpose, because they know that nobody is gonna enforce it.
Electric is kinda solving all those problems. Just yesterday, I was walking outside in NYC, and an Amazon delivery van (manufactured by Rivian) was passing by. It was such a relief, because I initially saw a big van approaching and braced for noise and smoke. Beautifully enough, none of those concerns actually materialized, and it was just a fast/quiet/smokeless van.
I am not some radical pro-EV-at-all-costs person, but I would be lying if I said that EVs of all kinds don't bring tons of immediate benefits to me, even as an outside observer who doesn't currently. No noise + no smoke + lots of torque already makes the outside way nicer for passerbys. And it is way more fun for an operator of those too (I happily drove an EV car before for multiple years, until I moved to NYC and stopped driving).
> I happily drove an EV car before for multiple years, until I moved to NYC and stopped driving
Having followed a similar path, the lifestyle upgrade of moving to an EV, then abandoning car dependant commuting use is great.
In the pouring rain and howling wind I do occasionally wonder what I’m doing, but sitting in a traffic jam is awful.
> And, mind you, I ran it with a stock exhaust. I absolutely despise people who install extra-loud (illegal) aftermarket exhausts on purpose, because they know that nobody is gonna enforce it.
Add to this: car stereos and the craze for adding (stolen) school PA speakers for playing obnoxiously loud music.
This is a really weird take that does not resemble any modern Vespa. Are you sure you looked at a modern Vespa and not some old 2 stroke thing?
Also, the range is pretty good. About 160 miles on a full tank, which no electric motorcycle or scooter I've tried can match. Drive it carefully and you can extend that range to probably 180 miles. You'll be lucky to get 80-100 miles out of an electrical motorcycle.
As for torque, sure the smaller Vespas could use more torque, but the 300cc has more than you will ever need in a city. And to be frank, it doesn't do too badly on longer trips either. It is certainly more comfortable than my Ducati.
Update: As for "modern". Note that my 300cc Vespa is about 10 years old now. So it isn't all that new either.
Ah ah my youth! I had a Vespa with a 200cc engine, three speeds, from the 80s: this thing would do a wheelie in 1st gear. And very hard to control wheelie for the weight is uneven on a Vespa. My brother had a rare Vespa 125 cc from 1961 or something: when he left the country he sold it to a friend who still owns it.
Another friend of mine --the reason we all had Vespa back then-- could disassemble and reassemble them with his eyes closed, including the engine.
We'd go to flea markets and garage sales around the country looking for Vespa, Lambrettas and even french Solex for sale. Best find was not a Vespa though but a real Honda Monkey Z50.
One day I forgot to put oil in a Vespa and the engine just froze: cylinder expanded in the piston and rear-wheel locked in place. Somehow I didn't crash. I put oil (you typically had oil with you, in a tiny trunk), waited for the thing to cool down: it just started back up (!).
These were the days, thanks for posting that on HN.
FWIW, I have absolutely nothing against people loving these things, having fond memories of it, whatever. In fact, I do not see having a love for them and not wanting them on the roads as fundamentally incompatible even. It was the absurd ideological pigeonholing that got to me.
Heartwrenching that OP has a hard-on against environmentalism and feels/is victimized by its proponents on the regular, but it's super not what people were yapping about, and it really couldn't have been any clearer.
Piaggio also designed a car (well, more than one including bad prototypes), which unfortunately wasn't sold in italy due to a gentleman's agreement with fiat (fiat being much bigger basically went if you start selling cars, we'll build motorcycles). The English Wikipedia doesn't include this snippet of history, the Italian page does though https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/ACMA_Vespa_400
Piaggio also designed the Ape (bee) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piaggio_Ape a 3 wheel tiny pickup. It was hugely popular, but of course not as much as the Vespa because of the smaller market. I still see some of them especially in country areas.
Still remember driving one with my dad (I was 6) back from a vendemmia (grape harvest) with the back fully loaded of at least 18 100-litre harvest buckets, on a 7-10% slope, which the ape did effortlessly.
i lived in an interesting time and place combo where i'd see more apes around than vespas. primarily because we have local alternatives for vespas, which were also levied a lot of import duties to begin with.
while vespas came earlier and had the advantage of interchangeably calling scooters "vespas". however, did not figure out that they both shared the same parent company.
I will now go off topic a bit. I guess that Americans might not know about it, but Pavarotti enjoyed driving his scooter. There are photos of him in his villa driving his scooter that nowadays might make you think they're Ai generated but they're real and very Italian
I have a Vespa PX 125 from 1984.
It's a very robust motorbike, very less maintenance and really funny to drive with the gearshifter.
The only problem is about brakes: there are basically useless and you should be really careful on using them, especially if you are driving on wet road. Bad brakes and small wheels is a terrible combination.
Probably the main regret to WFH is not using my Vespa anymore as I did when I was going everyday in the office.
Vespas are fashionable and cute but the coolest thing on 2 wheels award goes to Simsons of all colors and stripes (2-stroke or electric, pick your poison). In Germany, the grandfathered 2-strokes are also the only way you can legally ride somethibg faster than 45 km/h on a moped license.
There's a culture for modding Vespas in Indonesia that I think HN folks would find interesing - check out "Vespa extreme"/"Vespa gembel" - sort of like if mad-max was in the jungle culture of chopping and rebuilding old Vespas into all sorts of wild road machines. Pretty interesting kind of hippie/punk subculture.
I hated our Vespa when I was a kid in the seventies but their calendars were cool. You know that instinct you get when you're slowing down or coming to a stop, where you just want to stick your feet out for balance? Well, every time I did that, I felt like those sharp metal edges on the Vespa were just waiting to scrape my leg or catch my ankle. It wasn't a bike to me; it was a hazard on two wheels.
So when the opportunity came to "borrow" it while my father was napping, I gladly handed the honor over to my brother. Off we went, buzzing through the dark to see the aftermath of an airstrike on an oil refinery at the edge of the city. It was pitch black out there, and before we knew it, we'd tipped right into a ditch on the side of the road.
Panic was not because we were hurt, but because we were convinced our father would somehow know we'd taken his Vespa. Luckily, a few strangers happened to pass by and helped us haul the thing back up. You'd think we'd have learned our lesson, but soon after, I pulled a similar stunt, this time with our white Volkswagen.
Homs, Syria https://www.ebay.com/itm/376362709347
What is interesting is that our Volkswagen car is still running til today by the guy who bought from us, in a village there, this car escaped the so called planned obsolescence.
> "The first ads for the Vespa featured a woman," said Sarra. "You could call it a kind of feminist design."
Well, a big feature of the Vespa design is that, unlike other motorcycles, women (or Scottish men) can ride them with skirts. Surely that helped with their initial popularity.
Reading through the comments I somehow doubt that many have owned or ridden a Vespa that was built in the last 10 years or so.
I've had a 300cc Vespa GTS for a decade now (alongside a few motorcycles) and the thing that is the most striking about it is how relaxing it is to drive. Despite being somewhat heavy, they are very manoeuvrable due to the low center of gravity. The suspension is very good and despite the roads here being awful it just glides over any bumps and smooths them out. The 300cc engine is fairly quiet and provides more torque than you need. When the lights turn green you'll be over the intersection before the motorcyclists have had time to release the clutch and get going.
It does well on the open road too. It isn't a race machine, but it'll do 120km/h (75 mph) which is good enough. And you won't feel stiff and bent when you arrive if you decide to take it on a 6 hour ride.
I didn't get it for the looks/style. Yes, I did think it was a bit of a gimmick. And then I tried it. I thought I was doing 60/kmh when I was doing 80km/h. And it just glided over bumps.
(And yes, I have a motorcycle as well, but I'm European so it means I don't ride a motorcycle to get into road rage incidents. We actually try to get along here)
You're making it sound like the motorcycle equivalent of the original Fiat Panda 4x4 (well, except that you didn't mention anything about repairability, but you get the vibe I'm going for)
And I live in a place where BMW sent two engineers and a test car to verify that, indeed, the roads here rattle cars to bits. They were not getting ripped off by people pretending their beemers broke.
Possibly the coolest thing I’ve ever seen was a guy coming up to an intersection on a Vespa. Somehow he chucked it sideways and skidded down the lane scrubbing off speed, then straightened up, split the lanes and hit the front as the light went green, and took off.
Completely alarming and rather dangerous to all around him.
I've had a 2016 150cc LXVie in silver with maroon leather since new; have put about 6,000 city miles on it. It's a wonderful machine. I bought it when my wife died after we had taken the motorcycle certification together in anticipation of getting one someday soon. I'm in the process of selling it now, though, as it's time. But it's such an iconic brand and I constantly get thumbs up and even notes left on it.
In my 20s I tried with two other friends to raise some money from local businesses to sponsor a coast to coast trip in the US on our vespas (I had 1968 150 Sprint Veloce in red). It didn’t work out, but now that I’m in my 40s I understand it would have been a terrible idea ^^’
140 comments
[ 4.3 ms ] story [ 54.0 ms ] threadA modern 300cc four stroke Vespa will use 3.3 litres of fuel per 100km and Euro 5 means noise is quiet.
As far as things go, modern scooters are great, practical, economical vehicles.
But, yeah, they don't smell like the old ones thankfully
Uh, I know motorcycle engines aren't particularly fuel-efficient (it's not a priority), but there seems to be, er, room for improvement.
Yamaha’s blue core engine used in its mid sized 300cc scooters can do 2.8L per 100km. It’s 125 engines can do 1.8L per 100km.
They’re incredibly efficient little vehicles
So far electric scooters can only compete in inner city with the equivalent power of a small 125 and limited range/speed due to size/weight constraints
However, for me, having lived in a country with a motorbike culture for the last decade, the coolest thing on two wheels is electric scooters. So much torque, range nearly equal to same sized gas scooters, and no pollution of the noise or smoke variety. It makes such a difference when everyone is zipping around on these quiet, non-stinking scooters. That's cool. Now it just needs someone to make an electric scooter design as iconic as a Vespa.
It is very smelly as well as it’s a two stroke engine, but I don’t mind that at all. Quite the opposite
He has to re weld the frame from time to time due to the cracks that form.
I have a 150 4-stroke that is fuel injected and it’s way quieter than any motorcycle and has very little exhaust smell
My parents have a newer 50cc and even at full speed it doesn’t make more noise than any car.
I had an old p200e 2-stroke Vespa and it was indeed smoky and loud. And also way more fun and useful.
Electric Vespa anyone?
I suspect that other brands of electric motorbike may be better
Have you ever "shipped" something that at no point in its journey was carried on a floating vessel? Do you correct people when they say they're shipping something by ground or air?
Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called Linux, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project.
There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use. Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine's resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called Linux distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux!
The Piaggio Vespa is a scooter. The Piaggio Ciao is a moped.
It is not at all noisy unless I rev it high, which I try to avoid doing most of the time. It is not loud like for instance a Yamaha T-Max, not helped by it attracting mostly complete retards.
Obviously there are always dumb people mounting akrapovic or other noisy aftermarket exhausts on any bike brand but it is also the same with cars.
https://www.vespa.com/en_EN/electric-range/
https://storeusa.vespa.com/elettrica/vespa-elettrica-45-mph....
In town, filtering, weaving through traffic, getting to the front at lights etc., being able to make a sound which is so ubiquitously embedded in culture that it's instantly recognisable, and so easily localised, really makes a difference. It might be audible, but it's still quieter than many bigger bikes that people ride around town on, and less obnoxious. I guess I'm not the only one who feels that way, as I get a ton of smiles and so many people make an effort to move out of my way - much more so than other bikes I see on the road.
I've been super excited for electric motorbikes for years. I nearly bought a Zero FXS/FXE during covid, and then for the last year or two i've been looking hard at a BMW CE04. But they’d change how I ride, and I’d be more hesitant using them around town simply because being almost inaudible makes me nervous in UK traffic. In saying that, I'd be a lot more comfortable riding around places with a decent cycling culture like Cambridge, where people are used to looking around for smaller quieter vehicles, so I guess this too will change over time. E-bikes are great, but there the problem isn't the ride, it's the theft/security/insurance aspects.
So yeah, I guess until a few of these things change, my buzzy Vespa, with its awesome clutch and gears and crappy little drum brake on the front, will continue to be my go-to.
Fast forward and everyone is driving nearly silent electric vehicles. I wouldn’t want loud Vespas then. Cutting city noise pollution is one of the benefits of electric vehicles.
Anyway, don't most places legally require nearly silent electric vehicles to emit some kind of artificial noise?
Electric is damn quiet, damn smooth, and damn fast. (And damn comfy.)
And that can be a problem. Especially in a city like, say, Vienna, where people just do not check before they cross some of these little cosy streets.
I became a much more alert and guarding rider when I switched from Vespa.
Maybe that's a good thing, I dunno, but I am gonna put a whistle on my helmet some day soon, I swear ..
Yes, you're supposed to be the one checking that you don't hit pedestrians. Cities are for humans first, machines second. Drive slower. If you want to drive fast, take a road trip.
Pedestrians are *also* subject to right-of-way rules, just like everyone else on the road. Many examples of people running between parked/stopped cars and getting smoked when they hit an open lane with a vehicle they did not expect to be there.
Not the driver's fault.
If you're going fast enough in an area where someone could step out, and someone does step out, if you hit them then you were clearly going too fast.
It would be interesting to see what an intentionally and well designed city could look like. I’d probably have a walkable city center, no cars, and maybe scooters could be allowed but required to have some automatic wireless-controlled limiter that keeps them below 10mph or something.
My neighborhood, which borders one of the ancient entryways into the city (Mariahilferstrasse), is converting to pedestrian-priority streets, chopping off lanes and turning them into an extension of the main Mariahilferstrasse walking street, is an example of just what you describe. It is being laid out with rest stops and trees, and water springs, and so on - and it is delightful, true, to have such conveniences as bike-only lanes. However, they are being exploited by the delivery classes whose mini-me mopeds, limited to 25km/h, are considered ‘bicycles’ for the purposes of the bike lanes. Too many times I’ve seen clueless tourists (mostly Americans) who have no idea what those bike lanes are for, stepping into them, only to narrowly escape death or dismemberment at the hands of the delivery guy, exploiting the lane.
My class bike can only ride on the road, so it’s only in the quieter streets I have to be super-alert .. but man, those guys in the bike lanes are nonsense.
Two people who actually live the same experience may have different opinions on "right" and "wrong", and the law may differ from those opinions.
But man, assuming bad faith on the part of others is a hell of a way to go through life.
As an electric rider I take extra responsibility for my stealth. It is a blessing and a curse. But I’ll get a whistle for some of the quieter alleys .. people really are pretty uninitelligent when it comes to some streets.
The point is, people in cities have become accustomed to using noise as their first sense, and vision much later. Sometimes far too late. And if I hadn’t been driving extremely defensively, as always, I would definitely have hit many, many stupid pedestrians with very little self-preservation sensibility.
If you’re a pedestrian, look both ways before you cross the road. Duh.
I keep thinking I should upgrade my honk, but I want to experiment with the helmet whistle a bit more, just to see if its effective ..
Even when I am in pedestrian mode I find myself cursing those smaller electric moped riders who qualify to ride the bike lane (my bikes are only for the roads) and zoom around like they own the bike lane. I sure do love giving them a lesson when I’m on my bigger bike though. Nothing more satisfying than shouting OIDA at some dufus who almost killed themselves in the bike lane.
In any case, electric riders do have more responsibility. It comes with the comfort.
Well yeah but they're another league of recklessness. Especially the food delivery people.
I was talking more about an average bicycle commuter.
And not just that: Street's full of smombies, already keeping in mind that the situation awareness of the average pedestrian is a joke to begin with.
Also... mopeds and scooters are not a problem here in big-city Europe, they blend virtually completely into the vehicle hum, with two notable outliers: a) asshole mods, and b) the odd classic, two-stroke sewing machine. But even then, there's many other vehicles much louder than scooters. In the countryside they might be more of burden, for obvious reasons.
I used to ride Honda CBR500R as my primary commute vehicle for a few years in Seattle. And while the rumble of the engine was not at the chainsaw-levels of annoying, it still sucked, it still emitted smoke, and I still had to wear ear protection. Which I would need to wear even on an electric motorcycle as well, to be fair, given that I took highway (and the wind noise at speeds above 60mph absolutely hurts hearing; after catching myself speaking way too loud after a ride a couple of times, I just invested into ear protection).
But even at low speeds, the engine noise was imo annoying for pedestrians. And, mind you, I ran it with a stock exhaust. I absolutely despise people who install extra-loud (illegal) aftermarket exhausts on purpose, because they know that nobody is gonna enforce it.
Electric is kinda solving all those problems. Just yesterday, I was walking outside in NYC, and an Amazon delivery van (manufactured by Rivian) was passing by. It was such a relief, because I initially saw a big van approaching and braced for noise and smoke. Beautifully enough, none of those concerns actually materialized, and it was just a fast/quiet/smokeless van.
I am not some radical pro-EV-at-all-costs person, but I would be lying if I said that EVs of all kinds don't bring tons of immediate benefits to me, even as an outside observer who doesn't currently. No noise + no smoke + lots of torque already makes the outside way nicer for passerbys. And it is way more fun for an operator of those too (I happily drove an EV car before for multiple years, until I moved to NYC and stopped driving).
Having followed a similar path, the lifestyle upgrade of moving to an EV, then abandoning car dependant commuting use is great.
In the pouring rain and howling wind I do occasionally wonder what I’m doing, but sitting in a traffic jam is awful.
> And, mind you, I ran it with a stock exhaust. I absolutely despise people who install extra-loud (illegal) aftermarket exhausts on purpose, because they know that nobody is gonna enforce it.
Add to this: car stereos and the craze for adding (stolen) school PA speakers for playing obnoxiously loud music.
Also, the range is pretty good. About 160 miles on a full tank, which no electric motorcycle or scooter I've tried can match. Drive it carefully and you can extend that range to probably 180 miles. You'll be lucky to get 80-100 miles out of an electrical motorcycle.
As for torque, sure the smaller Vespas could use more torque, but the 300cc has more than you will ever need in a city. And to be frank, it doesn't do too badly on longer trips either. It is certainly more comfortable than my Ducati.
Update: As for "modern". Note that my 300cc Vespa is about 10 years old now. So it isn't all that new either.
https://www.mcmaster.com/products/thread-repair-inserts/thre...
Another friend of mine --the reason we all had Vespa back then-- could disassemble and reassemble them with his eyes closed, including the engine.
We'd go to flea markets and garage sales around the country looking for Vespa, Lambrettas and even french Solex for sale. Best find was not a Vespa though but a real Honda Monkey Z50.
One day I forgot to put oil in a Vespa and the engine just froze: cylinder expanded in the piston and rear-wheel locked in place. Somehow I didn't crash. I put oil (you typically had oil with you, in a tiny trunk), waited for the thing to cool down: it just started back up (!).
These were the days, thanks for posting that on HN.
I’ve never before considered altruistic hate versus self interested hate.
I’ve a foot in both camps over scooter noise and fumes, but do love a good Vespa.
Heartwrenching that OP has a hard-on against environmentalism and feels/is victimized by its proponents on the regular, but it's super not what people were yapping about, and it really couldn't have been any clearer.
I'm surprised that the article didn't mention the role Vespa (and Lambretta) played in the British Mod scene.
You can see it's influence in the RAF roundel stickers on bikes in the article.
For anyone interested Quadrophenia is still a fun introduction:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadrophenia_(film)
https://lambrettauk.co.uk/post/rockers-vs-mods-a-short-histo...
Now I want one!
while vespas came earlier and had the advantage of interchangeably calling scooters "vespas". however, did not figure out that they both shared the same parent company.
https://www.inmoto.it/news/curiosita/2025/08/14-8327674/pava...
Probably the main regret to WFH is not using my Vespa anymore as I did when I was going everyday in the office.
The bars look like an 80s bmx.
https://cdn.pixabay.com/photo/2021/12/27/23/50/motorcycle-68...
Style?
https://youtu.be/uVeVZ-Iugkg
https://www.amazon.com/Kilt-Happened-Person-Called-Skirt/dp/...
But you're not wrong. I haven't rode and actual Vespa, but have been on a Yamaha Vino YJ50 in my full montie gallus kilt, frae bunnet tae brogues.
I've had a 300cc Vespa GTS for a decade now (alongside a few motorcycles) and the thing that is the most striking about it is how relaxing it is to drive. Despite being somewhat heavy, they are very manoeuvrable due to the low center of gravity. The suspension is very good and despite the roads here being awful it just glides over any bumps and smooths them out. The 300cc engine is fairly quiet and provides more torque than you need. When the lights turn green you'll be over the intersection before the motorcyclists have had time to release the clutch and get going.
It does well on the open road too. It isn't a race machine, but it'll do 120km/h (75 mph) which is good enough. And you won't feel stiff and bent when you arrive if you decide to take it on a 6 hour ride.
I didn't get it for the looks/style. Yes, I did think it was a bit of a gimmick. And then I tried it. I thought I was doing 60/kmh when I was doing 80km/h. And it just glided over bumps.
(And yes, I have a motorcycle as well, but I'm European so it means I don't ride a motorcycle to get into road rage incidents. We actually try to get along here)
And I live in a place where BMW sent two engineers and a test car to verify that, indeed, the roads here rattle cars to bits. They were not getting ripped off by people pretending their beemers broke.
Completely alarming and rather dangerous to all around him.