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Ask HN: I'm starting a new job and am concerned about intellectual property

8 points by drwl ↗ HN
Hi HN,

I'm the average programmer who is able to able to make code run. I recently got a new job (retail and not directly related to software development) and I signed an intellectual property agreement. While reading through it, I pretty much summed up that the company I'm joining will be the owner of any IP that I create from here on out. Can you guys share your stories and advice?

8 comments

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snikch
I had a similar thing a few years ago. I asked my boss to get it clarified, which they did. However, he told me that the lawyers laughed and said I was doing myself a disservice, as the original agreement was so loose that it would have never been enforceable.
biesnecker
Most such clauses are unenforceable at the end of the day, but it doesn't make it any more fun to fight the fight, against an organization that has far more resources and a lot less to use.
drwl
Thank You! I'll also ask for clarification, just in case.
moocow01
Where do you live?... if in California they put it in contracts all the time but its void unless extremely blatant meaning you literally are stealing code or leveraging your employment to compete directly against your employer.

I used to have a very seasoned colleague who used to say you cant steal code but once you move on you can always rewrite it. In other words, the skills and expertise you learn on the job are always your own intellectual property (in California at least). Knowing his experience Im pretty sure he's done this, gone through the legal gamut, and come out fine.

drwl
I live in California. Well I'd like to develop apps/software on the side, and I was told to list things that I made as inventions.
moocow01
I wouldnt worry too much about it but if you still are, pay for an hour or two with a Lawyer. The cases where you DO NEED to talk to a Lawyer or your employer are if your current projects compete with your employers. Sometimes this is obvious, sometimes not. Employer makes accounting software and you make first person shooters - not a problem. Employer makes strategy games for the app store and you make first person shooters for the app store - might want to consult a Lawyer. As long as you are doing it on your own time, with your own equipment and it is not in your employers direct line of business - there is nothing to talk about if residing in California.

Additionally if your projects are somewhat aligned with your employers projects get them to sign something before you join - its your best time to negotiate this. Another alternative is to cross out any lines you dont like in your employee contract (although it may ruin the employment contract) - I cross out a significant amount in my employment contracts and usually dont hear much about it.

vijaytsr
The usual statement is that any IP you create on company time using company resources will belong to the company. Any IP you create on your own time will, likely, be outside the scope.
jasonkester
The quick & easy way to handle things like this is to cross out that clause on the agreement and initial next to it, then sign the document.

From that point on, if they want to make a thing of it, it's them making a thing, not you. Chances are they won't.